*THE HULL TRUTH is the world's largest FREE network for the discussion of Boating & Fishing. Whether you're researching a new boat, or are a seasoned Captain, you'll find The Hull Truth Boating & Fishing Message Forum contains a wealth of information from Boaters and Sportfishermen around the world.
Welcome to the updated THT!
If you are having trouble signing in, please email feedback@thehulltruth.com with your username and we will help you. We thank you for your patience as we help you access the new site!
Random Quote: You're an accident looking for a place to happen
It's official. Roy Crabtree just called me and they have sent the interim rule to the Federal Register for publication today. The NEW red snapper season in federal waters will be June 1-August 5 for this year. Next years (2009) season is still set at June 1-September 30, however that could change depending on what happens with effort and landings this year. Roy will be emailing me the analysis to support this season some time today and I will forward to all of you when I receive it.
Bobbi
Well, there ya have it. The federal government via the National Marine Fisheries Service, or more precisely, Mr. Roy Crabtree's personal agenda, has just given the stock of Gulf of Mexico red snapper to the commercial sector.
The commercials have the whole year to fish anytime they care to. They can catch any amount of fish they care to up to their "quota".
Something reeks of inequality here. The recreational sector gets June 1st to August 5th to catch their "quota". Now, excuse me, but, does the all knowing Mr. Roy Crabtree know something about the weather that I do not? Has he just created a hurricane free summer with fair seas and good weather to ensure we are able to fish those alloted days? Has he seen to it that the bookings will be filled during those days as well for the charter boats?
It is far past time for congressional action here.
Here is a post on rnr by Damon McKnight.......it may be something you want to attend:
"Damon McKnight Venice, LA USA
Attn: All Louisiana Charter Boat Assoc. members and Louisiana Charter Boat Captains (members & non-members).
On April 7, 2008 at 11:30 A.M. at the Embassy Suites in Baton Rouge you are invited to a sit down meeting with Dr. Roy Crabtree (Head of NMFS). This is the first time he has ever agreed to have a meeting like this. With the ongoing Red Snapper issue it is very important. At this meeting he will discuss how decisions are made thru the NMFS, snapper limits, and why the Gulf Council makes the decisions they do. This is a once in a lifetime meeting and if you are interested in decisions that will affect your livelihood as a charter boat captain it is in your best interest to attend.
Following the meeting with Dr. Roy Crabtree there will be an official Louisiana Charter Boat Association Meeting. If you are not a member, you can join at this meeting. Decisions affecting charter boat captains throughout the state of La. will be made. If you want to be involved in making these decisions you need to attend this meeting. This is a chance for the Louisiana charter boat captains to form the organization that we need to get things done with the federal government and in the state of La.
I will post more info. about where in the Embassy Suites Hotel the meetings will take place as soon as possible.
This is also where the Gulf Council meetings that everyone needs to attend will be held for the week of April 7-April 11, 2008.
The address and phone number for the Embassy Suites is:
EARLY CLOSURE OF THE RED SNAPPER RECREATIONAL FISHERY
IN THE GULF OF MEXICO
New Regulatory Action:
NOAA’s National Marine Fisheries Service (NOAA Fisheries Service) announces the recreational fishery for red snapper in federal waters of the Gulf of Mexico will close effective 12:01 a.m. local time August 5, 2008, through December 31, 2008, the end of the current fishing year. The recreational fishery in federal waters will reopen on June 1, 2009, the beginning of the 2009 federal recreational fishing season. NOAA Fisheries Service has determined this action is necessary to prevent overfishing and to keep the recreational fishery from exceeding its quota during the 2008 fishing year.
Closure of the recreational red snapper fishery in federal waters complies with regulations implemented under the Fishery Management Plan for Reef Fish Resources of the Gulf of Mexico (Reef Fish FMP), and in accordance with requirements specified in the Magnuson-Stevens Fishery Conservation and Management Act. NOAA Fisheries Service is required to close a fishery or fishery sector in federal waters when the quota is met or projected to be met.
Background:
Constraining harvest to the quota is crucial to meeting the legal requirements to prevent and end overfishing and rebuild the red snapper resource of the Gulf of Mexico. A Court ruling in 2007 required NOAA Fisheries Service and the Gulf of Mexico Fishery Management Council (Council) to revise the red snapper rebuilding plan with a goal of having a 50-percent probability, or greater, of ending overfishing for red snapper between 2009 and 2010 and rebuilding the stock by 2032.
Subsequently, NOAA Fisheries Service implemented temporary regulations in 2007 for federal waters to reduce harvest and fishing mortality for red snapper. These regulations included a recreational quota of 3.185 million pounds (MP) and a commercial quota of 3.315 MP. The recreational bag limit was reduced to two fish,
with a zero-fish bag limit for captains or crews of for-hire vessels. The minimum size limit for the recreational fishery remained at 16 inches total length (TL) and the federal fishing season remained April 21 through October 31. These harvesting restrictions were intended to constrain the recreational fishery to the quota for the fishing year. However, Texas kept its state waters open year-round and anglers were allowed a daily bag limit of four fish. Similarly, Florida maintained a fishing season of April 15 through October 31 during 2007 in its state waters, and a four-fish recreational bag limit. These incompatible regulations in state waters contributed to a recreational harvest that exceeded the recreational red snapper quota by approximately 1.0 MP in 2007. The commercial fishery landed 3.22 MP, or 97 percent of the 2007 commercial quota.
2008 Regulations:
In January 2008, NOAA Fisheries Service published a final rule implementing actions in the Council’s joint Amendment 27 to the Reef Fish FMP and Amendment 14 to the Fishery Management Plan for the Shrimp Fishery of the Gulf of Mexico. These regulations further reduced the 2008 recreational quota for red snapper to 2.45 MP, and the commercial quota to 2.55 MP. To keep the recreational fishery’s harvest within the quota, the recreational red snapper fishing season in federal waters was reduced to June 1 through September 30. No changes were made to the established bag limits and minimum size limits.
To ensure the 2008 recreational red snapper quota would not be exceeded during the fishing year, NOAA Fisheries Service and the Council requested the five Gulf of Mexico states adopt compatible regulations for 2008. Louisiana and Mississippi implemented regulations compatible with federal regulations, and Alabama is undecided. Florida implemented a two-fish bag limit, compatible with federal regulations, but maintained its recreational fishing season of April 15 through October 31; 78 days longer than the federal fishing season. Texas maintained its existing year-round fishing season and a four-fish bag limit in state waters, thus not complying with federal regulations.
Analysis Summary:
The June 1 through September 30 federal recreational fishing season was based on the assumption of compatible recreational red snapper regulations in state waters. NOAA Fisheries Service’s analyses indicate the longer fishing seasons and less restrictive bag limits in state waters will result in a recreational quota overage for the 2008 fishing year.
Substantial quantities of red snapper are harvested by the recreational fishery from state waters. For example, reported recreational red snapper landings from state waters off the west coast of Florida in 2007 represented more than 25 percent of the total Gulf of Mexico recreational red snapper landings, and more than 50 percent of the total reported recreational landings of red snapper for the state. Similarly, landings from Texas state waters constitute more than 30 percent of the state’s total recreational red snapper landings.
With this concern in mind, NOAA Fisheries Service conducted an analysis to project 2008 red snapper recreational landings in accordance with the established federal and state recreational fishing seasons and harvesting restrictions. Recent and historical landings were used to project both landings and season length for
each state by recreational sector (charter, private, and headboat). Where necessary, landings were adjusted for changes in regulations (e.g., lower bag limit, shorter season length). The full analytical report can be found on the Southeast Regional Office Web site: http://www.sero.nfms.noaa.gov. In summary, NOAA Fisheries Service projects the recreational red snapper landings for January 1 through December 31, 2008, will be approximately 2.78 MP; a 13.5-percent overage in the 2008 recreational quota.
These projections likely represent an underestimate of the landings because they do not account for shifts in fishing effort or non-compliance that are likely to occur as a result of incompatible state and federal regulations. NOAA Fisheries Service is increasingly concerned there will be substantial overages, and a concomitant failure to maintain the established rebuilding targets. Quota overages severely impact the ability of NOAA Fisheries Service and the Council to attain required reductions in fishing mortality and comply with the legal requirements to end overfishing of red snapper.
NOAA Fisheries Service estimates there is a 75-percent probability the 2.45 MP recreational quota will not be exceeded during the 2008 fishing year if the federal fishery is closed on August 5, 2008. NOAA Fisheries Service believes the timing of the closure is necessary to adequately account for anticipated but unquantifiable shifts in effort into state waters once the federal fishery closes.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Last edited by Angler 1 : Today at 08:18 AM.
Location: Hueytown, Al, hopefully Foley Al someday,,
Posts: 1,027
Re: Snapper Season to be shortened even further
This is crazy, charters have a large impact on the economy of the beach areas. Even us rec guys who have our own boats have impact on the economy. All the way from Motels to the bait shop. Sorry, my 2 snapper along with other guys 2 snappers does not impact the snapper population like commerical guys do. Lets do not forget shrimpers & the foreign boats (steel hull net draggers) who kill more juvenile snapper than all rec/charter guys ever catch in 2 or 3 years !!! Maybe I should register my boat in Mexico, catch all I want & say """NO SPEAK ENGLISH" !!!!!!
REGIONAL ADMINISTRATOR: (F/SE) FAX: (727) 824-5300
CRABTREE, DR. ROY REGIONAL ADMINISTRATOR (RA) (727) 824-5301
MOCHRIE, JOYCE SECRETARY (OFFICE AUTOMATION) (727) 824-5301
BLOUGH, HEATHER SPECIAL ASSISTANT TO THE RA (727) 551-5795
__________________ Sea Pro SV1900 Yamaha 115HP 2 Stroke Death & life are set before us,,Choose Life !!
Y'all ever heard of the Southeast Fisheries Science Center?
After some very enlightening conversations with highly regarded and noted scientists on the subject, today, the problem lies behind the walls of the building housing these myopic troglodytes.
Our problem, for both commercial and recreational sector, is the Southeast Fisheries Science Center. Bring them to reality, and we have our fishing back.
I have heard rumors that the authorities could take it far enough to take possesion of your boat for keeping red snapper out of season. A charter boat captain had told me this. Does anyone know the facts on this?
__________________ '08 F250 King Ranch
'07 Contender 23 open F250
Dalton, Your a nice guy and I feel the same anger and discuss over these new regulations and shorten season. However you are wrong about 2 points.
1. Bobbi Walker and the majority of the Orange Beach Charter boats are the blame for this mess. 2. Crabtree is simply following a Federal Judges decision not his own agenda. Recommendations by NMFS have been ignored for years because of greed, thus prompting these drastic reductions in seasons and landing.
The voice of Recreational fisherman have been the Charter boat captains and Bobbi Walker. They have lied to the Council and every one else involved. They are the ones to blame, not Crabtree or anyone else. Back in 2002 and 03 when snapper was stressed and hard to find they claimed fish was plentiful. Now there is an abundance of small snapper they don't believe a word they say.
You know that charter boats for years have vacuumed every legal Amberjack and Snapper they come across with live bait. If I see a charter boat fishing a spot I never waste my time fishing it. I don't mind fishing behind a Commercial boat, at least he leave something behind.
I am not sure where you get your intel from, but, man are you off base. Bobbi Walker sits on the the Gulf of Mexico Fisheries Council. She is also president, I think, of the Orange Beach Charter boat association. Never has a Charter Boat association had anything to do with managing GOM snapper stocks. That is pure misinformation.
The GOMFC gives recommendations to the NMFS on the best management practices for all regulated fish in the GOM. This is on behalf of recreational and commercial interests. NMFS does not have to follow these recommendations.
Crabtree's big down fall is his adamant stand behind the so called science that his "scientists" at the South East Fisheries Science center use in creating the fish stock models.
There is now enough attention being paid, as well as some high dollar data analysts (fish counters), that the egregiously flawed data and methods of the South East Fisheries Science center is coming under scrutiny. Hopefully, Crabtree's fool hearty high headedness will be his personal career suicide.
So far as fishing behind commercial or recreational/charter boats. It only stands to reason that a boat that can keep 12 red snapper versus a boat that can keep as many red snapper as they want is probably the one most folks would prefer to fish behind. I cannot imagine why you would feel differently. Whatever, if you want to fish behind vacuum cleaners, I for one will not stop you. That is what Mr. Roy Crabtree is trying to do. Or, just go fish some place else. There are many thousands of man made structures off of the coast of Alabama. There are around 1,500 public numbers easily available if you include oil rigs.
Dalton, You are the one spouting bad information your not even close. Bobbi Walker and the Orange Beach Charter Feet is the voice of Recreational fisherman plain and simple. They have never looked out for the real recreational fisherman like me and most on this board. Her interest is solely to the Commercial Charter Fleet. Several of the biggest boats over there belong to good friends of mine and they admit to just what I'm telling you. Call the captain of the Intimidator if you want to get the truth from someone else.
Your assessment of fishing behind a charter boat is laughable. Charter boats hammer the same spots day in and day out. A typical commercial boat will make a few downs with 300 lb mono and move on. The may not fish that spot for another year.
If your going to post, be positive you know what your talking about.
I'm just as miffed as you, but lay the blame where it needs to be and that is Orange Beach, Alabama!! Roll Tide!!
Not only do I run and fish from charter boats and private fishing boats, I fish from commercial snapper boats as well. Back before IFQ, mainly on the 200 pound commercial boats that my friends still run. Those same boats now can catch as many pounds of fish as they want up to their allotment at one sitting or spread it out through th year.
On charters, I have well over 60 spots to fish that include absolutely no public spots or rigs. Take a few from each spot and move on. If you go to the same places all of the time, you fish them out, it'd be stupid to do that. Not to mention, folks that follow the charter boats around, which you pretty much stated that you do, as well as following the commercial guys, start getting too close for comfort should your routes become easy to anticipate.
Apparently you missed out on the recent you tube video of a snapper boat taking 2100#s of red snapper from a single oil rig in Louisiana. Pretty darn common thing I might add.
You obviously have some kind of issues with charter boats, which are in the recreational fishery, the same as you are when you go out following them around to fish behind them or the commercial boats you'd rather fish behind.
Yeh, I came off sounding hard against the comms, but, that is the way it is thanks to NMFS draconian regulations. They have the year to get heir TAC, we have two months and five days, inequality. That includes you, and yet you seem to revel in it. Is there something wrong with you that you'd like to share?
Both user groups would have PLENTY of fish in their TAC if the folks at The Southeast Marine Science Center used real world good numbers instead of assumptions. Or, if Mr. Crabtree were smart enough to scrutinize their findings.
So HB, step out into the light of day. Do a little bit of investigating on who makes the calls on fisheries management for not only our back yard, but, the entire GOM. Enlighten yourself so you do not come off sounding so entirely clueless.
Dalton, The fact is that the commercial guys came up with a management plan that cut there catch in half. At the same time the Charter boat industry fought any management plan tooth and nail and never offered to help reduce their catch. Unfortunately the private boat owner or recreational fisherman has had little voice. Thus getting lumped in with Charter Boats and now can't fish for snapper but 2 months. I fully know that commercial fisherman have hammered snapper but those days are gone. The size limit reduction and quota system appear to be helping, along with reduced Shrimping activity.
Are you saying that Charter Boats don't hammer the Snapper and Amberjack every summer? Every legal Amberjack within a 30 mile radius of Orange beach will be caught. Our fishery is limited and needs a plan from the recreational sector. If we would have taken a reduction from 4 to 3 6 years ago this crap would not be happening.
Are you saying that Charter Boats don't hammer the Snapper and Amberjack every summer? Every legal Amberjack within a 30 mile radius of Orange beach will be caught. Our fishery is limited and needs a plan from the recreational sector. If we would have taken a reduction from 4 to 3 6 years ago this crap would not be happening.
I would have to disagree with you on this one. If for example you have a six pack license like Capt Dalton does and you are alloted 12 Red Snapper and either 6 or 3 Amberjack (depending on how that ruling turns out) with an avg weight of 5 lbs per Red Snapper (which is rather generous) and you get to fish all 65 days (which will never happen) the total is 3900 lbs for the entire season, and as referenced above the you tube clip of a commercial boat pulling up 2100 lbs off of one spot. How is that even remotely the same? Any charter capt worth his salt is putting out new spots ever year and they make their living on repeat business. It would not do them any good to fish a spot as you suggest. I have never seen a commercial boat take just few and move on as Capt Dalton said he does and I believe most if not all charter capt's do, I in fact have seen them (commercial boats) anchor up on a spot with 4 long lines with at least 15 hooks on each just fish a hole out, they don't leave until the fish stop biting. Also I personally think we could still take 4 fish person if it was the first 4 fish you catch. That would cut down on release mortality. I personally just use bigger hooks and bait to avoid catching the smaller ones.
Snapper Season to be shortened even further 
