Dawn2Dusk

Well, I'm far from a lawyer - though I do have a criminal justice degree yet went to work in "computer information technology."

In the case of under age drinking and being caught, the NOLO CONTENDERE plea is set up so that they can pay the price, do the time, learn the lesson and walk away with a clean slate if they suffice all the hoops they have to jump through and keep their noses clean.

bamaboy473

Somewhere in your statement is the shrugging shoulder approach to their arrests. Expensive lawyers for each defendent. Having to jump through those hoops, as you say. The very real angst when applying for jobs and answering, 'Have you ever been arrested?"

What you want is to make things safer. That's noble. What methods you expouse may (or may not) accomplish that intent. What I'd ask is that you use as much energy and thought about the very real collateral damage of such laws and take the side of these kids' parents about having a beer while boating and getting your life ruined for it.

This is my last post on the subject since it only serves to bump and probably doesn't change your mind about things.

__________________
Rick
Alabama's Gulf Coast
Chaparral 240 Signature (Sold)

Dawn2Dusk

Thank you first off for your debate on this issue, as I have enjoyed your input and look at things from a different view point.

There are many other facets to this issue in which I am exploring outside of new legislative means to help rectify the issue.
> Boating education for Georgians
> Stiffer fines for convicted repeat offenders of B.U.I and H.U.I
> Retribution to the environment through work programs for offenders (instead of community service in a city, allow the offender to clean up the lake shores he/she was caught on)
> Community awareness of B.U.I and H.U.I through civic groups, in school education, etc.

Etc...

Again, I thank you for your time and debate.

Steve762us

That's the reality of life, bamaboy.

By that logic, all the poor folks in prison for dealing cocaine, robbing banks, or committing any other offense should be freed, with their records expunged--after all, the government has *ruined their lives* by charging and arresting them for their offenses--they weren't responsible for their own choices, right?

A DUI conviction is not the end of the world, and it's the _least_ painful outcome that a drunk boater, motorist or hunter can hope for, in the realm of possible BAD outcomes.

bamaboy473

Steve, you lumped drug dealers, robbers, etc in with kids that (in a particular state) are caught drinking underage. If your mind sees no difference between crimes against society and crimes by legislation, then I'm not the person to educate you.

Your second statement glibly uses the word "drunk", when this legislation the OP proposes has no bearing on a person's being "drunk". Legislative drunk isn't physical drunk at the lower limits, so the only winning result of lower limits is governmental revenue and defense attorneys.

If you'll allow your mind to open to the point that historical definitions of "legally drunk" have dropped several times in the past years, you'll have to ask why the current definition wasn't the definition 40 years ago. Our bodies haven't changed, just the legislative definitions that have tightened to the point that DAs get a 99% conviction record based on a test that is KNOWN to be fraught with error. How do you soberly justify the fact that this is so?

__________________
Rick
Alabama's Gulf Coast
Chaparral 240 Signature (Sold)

Steve762us

You can rationalize all you want, but each of us is responsible for our decisions--- blaming the government, the law, the science, the research, or saying that things are different today from forty years ago is pure denial. Do what you want, and pay the price if you make the wrong decision. Blaming others for your bad choices doesn't cut it.

Schmaltz~Herring

.08

__________________
www.georgia-ticketlawyer.com
ARRESTED~TICKETED IN GEORGIA?
www.trafficlawyergeorgia.com
www.superspeeder.org

Dawn2Dusk

Let us take some B.A.C calculator results and see how they come out:

http://www.ou.edu/oupd/bac.htm

Using a commonly found male that is 220 lbs, drinking for 1 hour... estimated that he would have to drink 6 standard beers in that allotted time to be at 0.08 BAC and 7 standards beers to be above 0.10 BAC.

Breaking that down, that's one beer every 10 minutes for an hour to reach 0.08 BAC. That's a good bit of downing the suds to get to that point and I certainly wouldn't think someone was that thirsty.
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http://www.clevelandclinic.org/healt...ve/alcohol.asp

Let's assume we have a 220lb guy, drinking "Bud Light" (note: 4.2% alcohol - 12 oz). and a normal outing on the water of 5 hours. To be at 0.08+ he would have to consume an estimated 109 oz. or just over 9 beers... That's downing a 6 pack and getting a good start on the next one...
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http://bloodalcoholcalculator.org/

Let's again take a 220lb guy and let's assume he has a 3 hour outing where he drinks his 6 pack and is about to call it a day and makes him a drink on the rocks. His estimated BAC is 0.085. That's a pretty good bit of drinking when you consider that's one full beer every half hour plus one stiff drink to cap it off at the end.

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http://www.intox.com/wheel/drinkwheel.asp

Now let's look at a common 21 year old (being that we are assuming all of these are legal age drinkers). 175lbs... Let's assume he's out pulling his buddies around skiing for approximately 2 hours. In that 2 hours he completely drinks a 6 pack of beer. His BAC is estimated to be 0.90.

************************************************

My point for showing this is that many people think that folks can and are being given tickets for having "1" beer but in reality it takes some, conscience to what they are doing, steady drinking to get to the point of breaking the current Georgia law of 0.10 BAC. Even to get to 0.08 BAC takes a hefty attempt and in these examples I'm sure most will see that they wouldn't want to share the water with others who have partaken of the spirits in the amounts shown.

reeldog80

Don't you have anything better to do with your time then look up all of this info to try to convince a couple people to see things your way? What are you going to gain from the law changing? With the amount of time you are spending just on this tread, I am calling "BS" that it is just for the safety of fellow boaters and hunters...

__________________
Sea Fox 236 CC Pro Series
250 Suzuki
In Lake Lanier

Sea Vee 340I
twin Yanmar 440hp
in Orange Beach, Al (GOM)

Dawn2Dusk

GAIN... I seriously hope you are not insinuating that I would financially gain from this. I have financially LOST on this item as I've sent out numerous .42 cents stamped letters to every corner of this state. But to think that I would somehow financially gain from trying to reduce the BUI and HUI law from 0.10 to 0.08 BAC is, pardon me for saying it, ludacris in nature.

This has nothing to do with me gaining anything or providing some sort of means to my financial status. I'm not a legislator, I will not be patted on the back if it passes, my name will not be spoke as to this idea's origin and/or author, I won't receive preferential treatment from any Senator or House Representative and in the end I'll end up being the same person I was before this come about looking for other ways to help better our environment. One thing that is a must to understand, this isn't my only plight or my first. This is just one that I'm currently working on. Maybe I've just realized and answered your question without honestly seeing it this way before. Maybe this is a hobby of mine. I started this idea back in May of last year and have hopes to see it put in "Bill" format for the '09 - '10 legislative session.

reeldog80

Well if that is the case, you have fun with that and I hope that you fail... In fact I hope that it never does get to the legislator to waste my tax money debating it.

Do though keep wasting your own money trying to get this done instead of something that might really affect my life. I rarely ever drink on the lake (especially if I am the Captain), so the change would hardly affect my life...

You obviously are not in it to make a financial gain... As I see from you last post, you seem to get your jollies from helping pass legislation to control other peoples lives. Some type of a power/control complex I guess from knowing the you helped control others lives that you have no ability to otherwise...

__________________
Sea Fox 236 CC Pro Series
250 Suzuki
In Lake Lanier

Sea Vee 340I
twin Yanmar 440hp
in Orange Beach, Al (GOM)

Dawn2Dusk

My examples were merely used for educational purposes to give fellow readers an idea of what it takes to bring a normal male boater to the point of B.U.I.. If by doing so it convinces someone that my idea deserves merit then that's a side product of my original intent of that post. I'm simpling trying to provide facts to base my posts on. I won't stoop to throwing insults if all else fails, not tasteful in my book.

jsmorrison

Please come to Savannah in the summer and you will see the enforcement. There are way to many hot shot city cops not only in marked vessels but also undercover on jet skis. I couldn't imagin enforcement any more strict than it is. Personally I feel that the city is wasting tax payer money on these guys , because we also have heavy DNR patorl along with the Coast Guard. It really got under my skin last summer to see these cowboys ridding around burning $5.00 a gallon tax payer fuel, pulling boats just because some hot chic was in it. No I have not had a BUI , but do get harrased by these guys all the time. I also hope that I can buy beer on Sunday sometime in the near future.

Dawn2Dusk

JSM-
If you feel that you are being systematically harassed and unfairly treated then I would speak to;

Savannah-Chatham METRO Police
201 Habersham Street
Savannah, GA 31412
PH: 912.651.6675
Michael Berkow,
Chief of Police

and

Wildlife Resources Division
Special Permits
2065 U.S. Hwy. 278, S.E.
Social Circle, GA 30025
(770) 761-3044
Attn: Col. Terry West

or

Wildlife Resources Division
Region VII Law Enforcement
One Conservation Way
Brunswick, GA 31520-8687
(912) 264-7237

Sergeant Tim Vincent
Wildlife Resources Division
Region VII Law Enforcement
One Conservation Way
Brunswick, GA 31520-8687
(912) 262-3166
(912) 264-7237

As for the "Beer Sales" on Sunday, your wish may indeed come true; http://www.legis.ga.gov/legis/2009_10/fulltext/sb16.htm

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It's sincerely not my intent to further any harassment of boaters or hunters, just provide for a law change to bring in-line the "Under the Influence" laws to our already set Highway standards and hopefully allow for a safer environment in which we all can enjoy the outdoors.

Steve762us

"Some people are drunk after one glass of wine, I can drink a six pack and not even feel a buzz."*** ---reeldog80, #2386939

Dawn2Dusk

I was asked on another site to provide factual information from a intellicual and respected source, thought I'd share some of the items found in research;

Alcohol-influenced recreational boat operation in the United States, 1994
American Journal of Preventive Medicine, Volume 16, Issue 4, Pages 278-282
P.Logan

Conclusions: To decrease alcohol-influenced boating, new strategies should be developed. Strategies used to decrease drinking and driving motor vehicles may prove adaptable to preventing alcohol-influenced boating. More effective means of monitoring alcohol-influenced boating is needed. Alcohol use by passengers on boats should not be overlooked as a problem.

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Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health, the University of North Carolina Highway Safety Center, and the Liberty Mutual Research Center for Safety and Health circa 2001; note: study appears in the December 19, 2001, issue of the Journal of the American Medical Association (JAMA).

...alcohol consumption increases the risk of death for both passengers and operators on recreational boats, regardless of whether the boat is underway or stationary.
...results showed the relative risk of death steadily increased as the blood alcohol concentration (BAC) increased. Compared to a zero BAC, even a slightly elevated level poses a significant risk. At a BAC of .05, which is still under the legal limit for driving an automobile, a boater was four times more likely to die. A boater with a BAC of .10 was ten times more likely to die; with a BAC of .25, the risk grows to more than 50. This risk was similar for passengers and operators and was the same whether the boat was moving or stationary.

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The American Journal of Medicine; circa 2006

Use of designated boat operators and designated drivers among college students

...High rates of alcohol use in recreational boating suggest the need for prevention strategies.

mattusher

"In the case of under age drinking and being caught, the NOLO CONTENDERE plea is set up so that they can pay the price, do the time, learn the lesson and walk away with a clean slate if they suffice all the hoops they have to jump through and keep their noses clean."

It is too bad that you can not plead NOLO CONTENDERE for a BUI. The GA DNR are crooks. Through the entire processing of my BUI, I was completely polite and did everything that they asked me to do. I never gave them any "lip" or anything as I was always raised to respect the "law". Unfortunately, they have now given me a reason to absolutely hate them. They completely lied about basically every circumstance of my arrest in front of the judge and they even hired a lawyer to "make a statement". I will never respect a DNR officer and I think it is ridiculous what they do to people, including teenagers, who are simply trying to enjoy a day in the boat. I know I was wrong to be under the influence, but I have been stopped several times sober and they have totally harrassed me and treated me like a criminal. Screw the GA DNR. They are absolutely out of control in Savannah, GA.

Dawn2Dusk

Sorry you feel this way. I posted some names and numbers above for the "Savannah" area members to call and try to right the wrongs that they feel have been done unto them.

I'm just glad no one got physically hurt.

Better to get a B.U.I than live with the haunting circumstances that you gravely hurt and possibly killed someone.

Dawn2Dusk

As of last night at midnight, the idea is now a bill...

http://www.legis.state.ga.us/legis/2009_10/sum/sb71.htm

Your support is sincerely appreciated...

Tireless

You need a faster boat......they can't hassle you if they can't catch you.

__________________


31 Fountain with 225 Opti's