Another house question, outdoor lighting?? - The Hull Truth

SeaNile · 01-01-2006, 10:36 PM

The house we just bought needs some curb appeal. I love the way a house looks at night with soft lighting (uplighting?) on the house and a few key trees. So, last house I paid a lot of money and the electrician put up 4 huge outdoor spotlights and made my house look like an airport. I think the bulbs were either 300 or 500W. Talk about crazy.

For my new house I would like to add the nice soft lighting and even cast a few shadows on the house. Is this something I can do myself with the low watt outdoor lighting kit from Lowes (converts AC to low watt DC) or should I hire the pros again? I am pretty sure there is a few gfi outlets outside and if there is not I can have them installed.

Old house has the outdoor system wired to a box with a timer.

In total I am thinking 6 lights. 4 on the house and 2 on big trees in the very front of house

Anyway, just looking for some suggestions.

Here is the house.

Thanks again.

--JK

Garett · 01-02-2006, 02:01 AM

That's a lovely place to hang your hat there SeaNile

I agree with you about outdoor lighting, it can sure show a place well.

Any suggestion I would offer is limited because of the single pic to work from.
- But based on the pic you have presented I'd loose the bush marked with a red X - it just seems to through the balance of the home off.
- I agree with the lighting at the base of the two larger trees. I'd probably start with 75w per tree pointing straight up from the base of the tree. I wouldn't think you'd want more then 100w each. Remember you want the focus on the house and not the trees.
- I would put a flood light on each side of the entrance as I have shown with the blue V's. By doing this you frame your entrance.
- By the look of the pic you have to carriage lights framing the door? If there isn't any there I would install a pair. I would also want to pic a pair of lights that give a star burst pattern to them. This pattern of light with it's shadows will separate them self from the ambient flood lighting.
- It would appear from the pic that there is a secondary entrance to the right of the main entrance? If so, then all I would do there is to have a single overhead light that shines downwards from the porch ceiling. You don't want this lighting pattern to match what you have on the main entrance.
- It is really hard to tell what the house looks like behind those trees from the one pic you've provided? But two more floods could work there? Possibly you could even get away with some soffit lighting there to the far right of the house on that gable end. That would look good there. If I went with that type of light there I would not use flooding on top of that.
* Based on the pic that you've provided I can't see the use of soffit lighting across the face of the house - to high and to many windows.
- I would use the same carriage lights that I used at the main entrance to frame the garage door(s).

What I like to see is texture with outdoor lighting. A mix of shadows, lighting going in different directions and different wattages used. IMO lighting should be used to focus attention to given areas of interest at degrees deserving. To me a wall of white light is nothing more then a security measure from the paranoid.

Oh I should add, I would get several extention cords and a few flood lights and play around with locations and wattages. Stick a fixture into the ground then step back to the curb and look at it - at night of coarse.

SeaNile · 01-02-2006, 07:49 AM

Thanks for the sugestions. There are carriage lights on either side of the front door. The front door is the only door on the front of the house. That's why I was thinking of soft uplighting to the right (on the garage window area) and then 2 uplights on either side of the front door. You are right about playing around with the lighting before make a final commitment. What I do not want is a wall of light. That looks terrible.

--JK

Wolakrab · 01-02-2006, 09:04 AM

I suggest going to a lighting showroom in your area and speak to a consultant. There are many good manufacturers out there of quality low-voltage landscape lighting that will give you the effect you are looking for. Here's one website for a company:
http://www.coppermoon.com/
These folks aren't cheap, but most low-voltage landscape isn't. Be prepared to spend a little money; on this type of lighting, quality costs.

Mist-Rest · 01-02-2006, 09:46 AM

Unless you like to work on it stay away from the low voltage stuff.

Line voltage is the way to go and with the new PAR16 bulbs (16/8") the fixtures are getting as small as the MR16 bulbs.

Wolakrab · 01-02-2006, 10:14 AM

I agree with Mist-Rest insofar that lamp technology has made vast improvements in the last few years, but quality low-voltage systems aren't anywhere near as troublesome as they once were...not as dangerous as line-voltage, either. Less expensive to operate, as well. If you look at high-end residential and commercial applications, most are low-voltage.

SeaNile · 01-02-2006, 12:40 PM

By line-voltage do you mean standard 110ac lighting? That is something I'd have the pros do. What do you mean the low voltage systems are not trouble free as they use to be? Do the bulbs burn out, fixtures break, transformers go bad?

--JK

Mist-Rest · 01-02-2006, 12:55 PM

Quote:

Wolakrab - 1/2/2006 10:14 AM I agree with Mist-Rest insofar that lamp technology has made vast improvements in the last few years, but quality low-voltage systems aren't anywhere near as troublesome as they once were...not as dangerous as line-voltage, either. Less expensive to operate, as well. If you look at high-end residential and commercial applications, most are low-voltage.

The troubles were too much of a PITA for me to stay with "quility" LV stuff. The costs were wild before buying outdoor rated transformers and J boxes. The moisture kills this stuff up here with the weather swings. The real issue with LV is voltage drop. Don't even think of running anything less than #12 for a distance greater than 50'. # 10 is better and #8 is best. Working with that stuff sux. Also if it's not fed in the middle and has less than equal loads it becomes another PITA as the light output drops the more you travel down the run. 15 years ago this place was done with LV through out the 5 acres outside. The only LV stuff today was done 4 years ago with Hydrel fixtures. This was prior to PAR16 bulbs. The 120 VAC stuff has been mostly trouble free even when used off the 375 amp Lite Touch system. The dangers of 120 over LV are minor to me. We have no children on the property. Now for the landscapers and these targets..... That's a whole new story.

Wolakrab · 01-02-2006, 02:22 PM

Line voltage uses the standard 120V single phase circuits your interior lights use. I've seen the headaches the old low-voltage systems produce....just as Mist-Rest described, they were cantankerous and troublesome. The newer systems have come a long way....sealed transfomers have eliminated many of the moisture problems and the selection of fixtures are almost limitless. On systems with long linear footages between the transformer and fixtures, there can be a problem with voltage drop.....usually an application like yours won't be a problem. You can have moisture problems with line voltage lighting, too. If there's any kind of moisture around, I'd rather be dealing with 12-24V rather than 120V. And there's that thing with possibly lethal voltage running through conductors buried underground. Just make sure your homeowner's policy is paid up if you ever have any underground work done.....that stuff doesn't like being dug up by a contractor or someone's children.
As I mentioned before, talk to someone who installs it or sells it....many landscapers offer this service and there's the lighting showrooms I mentioned earlier. They'll help you choose the right one for your application, and a drive to the showroom or a phone call is free.
One thing, though.....talk to someone who is qualified--don't make a trip to Home Depot or Lowe's and expect to get valid information from these places. Usually the only thing they can tell you is what's printed on the outside of the box sitting on the shelf.

Garett · 01-02-2006, 03:55 PM

I don't know jack about outdoor lighting so I'm not even going to pretend I do....the other guys seem to be covering that area just fine. All I know is what looks good and how to go about achieving it what doesn't look good.

Now that I've got a little better sense of the home's layout I’d combine my first pick with this second one.
You know it might not look to bad to have another flood behind the Spruce tree to the left of the house - giving it back lighting while illuminating that wall of the house.
What I’d also do is play around with is the placement of the lights illuminating the two large trees to the right of the entrance. First I’d try placing a flood under each tree at the base of the tree, then I’d try placing the two floods together between the two trees pointing at the two separate trees....that would give you a totally different look and could look very good too.

Remember the closer the lights are to the house the less likelihood of the lighting flooding the rooms inside the house with light.

I guess I should have added, the blue V would be a ceiling pot light and the blue dots would be soffit pot lights.

wolfpack03 · 01-02-2006, 04:11 PM

If you are going to bury the lines around the tree, be really careful around the root system.

We have a shopping center here that was built around this one gigantic oak. The engineers spent enough time to figure out soil volume to remain in place in order for the large tree to survive. Long story short.........after about five years (in which the tree performed wonderfully) the mall decided to up-light the tree. Out came the trencher and they dug an 18" trench in a complete circle about 12-15 feet away from the trunk. Every year since, the tree has looked worse and worse. I imagine they will take it down pretty soon.

I guess what I'm getting at is try to avoid digging circular trench around the tree if want it to survive.

Nice house btw.

Mist-Rest · 01-02-2006, 05:19 PM

Your right about trenching. Stay AWAY from inside the drip line!! If you must be in there, work out from the center then around. If you want to light a tree, uplighting looks very nice. Where we lose our leaves in the winter the lighting still works on just the branches. Face lighting does throw shadows so be careful.

Mentioned was "hire the pros" if your unsure. That is great advise. Irrigation companies are offering the service also.

Remember that too much lighting ruins what your trying to do. It's the first thing most people start to do. All you end up with is pi$$ing off the neighbors if you have any.

The last lights I bought were from KIM Lighting. They are available in several metals and finishes. They are a good solid fixture and a little less $$$ than Hydrel. Hydrel is the finest fixture I've touched but there could be others that I'm unaware of.