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Old 12-22-2012, 11:51 PM   #1
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Default Concerns with Concealed carry permits

I know a bunch of you guys have a CC permit. I too had one when they first were offered in Virginia. At the time i think they were only good for 2 or 3 years and mine has long since expired.
I didn't renew my permit because i didn't agree with having to get a permit "permission" to exercise a right and have since opened carried.
With all the public fear of guns lately, open carrying is a PIA.
What's a huge concern is some states are making it illegal to open carry. (California being one) http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_1...61-503544.html

That leaves you only one choice to be able to carry a gun. Apply for a CC permit.
I know some wont agree, and that's ok, but when you apply for a permit you are asking permission to do something, effectively losing you "Right". See Below.......

Now NO STATE may convert a RIGHT into a PRIVILEGE and require a LICENSE or FEE for the exercise of that RIGHT!!! Please see MURDOCK vs. PENNSYLVANIA, 319 U.S. 105, and if a STATE does erroneously do require A LICENSE OR FEE for exercise of the RIGHT, the Citizen may IGNORE THE LICENSE AND OR FEE and exercise the RIGHT WITH TOTAL IMPUNITY!!! Please see SCHUTTLESWORTH vs. BIRMINGHAM 373 U.S. 262. YOU CAN NOT BE PUNISHED FOR THE EXERCISE OF A CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT!!! Please see MILLER vs. UNITED STATES 230 F2nd 486. You have a PERFECT DEFENSE TO THE ELEMENT OF WILLFULLNESS if you rely on the advice of Counsel or upon a DECISION OF THE UNITED STATES SUPREME COURT AS A DEFENSE. Please see U.S. vs. BISHOP, 412 U.S. 346. If the Prosecution who bears entirely the proofs beyond a TOTAL REASONABLE DOUBT can NOT prove WILLFUL INTENT TO AVOID AND KNOWN DUTY OR TASK UNDER THE LAW WITH A MORAL CERTAINTY, said Prosecutor does NOT HAVE A CAUSE OF ACTION FOR WHICH A COURT OF LAW MAY GRANT RELIEF TO HIM/HER, and thereby has NO CASE AT LAW!!!! FACT!!!!! See Michigan Court Rule 2.116 (c) (8) FAILURE TO STATE A CAUSE OF ACTION FOR WHICH RELIEF MAY BE GRANTED BY THE COURT.


In short a license is permission to do something that you would otherwise not be able to do. Well the good people of California have lost their "right" to carry without a permit or license. I know for some of you this may seem OK. Fine! I get it. Go get your permit!
Personally "i" see this as a serious danger to liberty.
Easy to kill the second Amendment from here. Just don't issue any more permits or renew existing ones.
Sorry about the long rant..................
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Old 12-23-2012, 04:54 AM   #2
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your in a 7-11 getting a soda , back turned to the store. Bad guy comes in to rob the place, see's your piece. SHOOTS YOU FIRST . Not so smart to open carry. Just my 2 cents.
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Old 12-23-2012, 05:45 AM   #3
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You have lots of rights but not paying your taxes will get you locked up. Just pay the "tax" and live without fear.
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Old 12-23-2012, 05:59 AM   #4
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You have lots of rights but not paying your taxes will get you locked up. Just pay the "tax" and live without fear.
He's pointing out that the next tax cut could come in the form of no permits being issued. So there's no "tax" but then you also don't have the right to carry "concealed" OR open).

I'm not choosing sides here just pointing out that first we make it mandatory to conceal with a permit....then we make permits impossible to get. Under those conditions carrying a firearm becomes illegal.
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Old 12-23-2012, 06:05 AM   #5
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plus with the CCP it lets you buy more than 1 gun a month in virginia instead of the 1 every 30 days rule.

I still have my Virginia CCP albeit it is a non-resident now, but it lets me carry in a couple of states that Florida does not reciprocate with.
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Old 12-23-2012, 06:25 AM   #6
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To the OP.

You may be entirely correct in your assertions about rights and privileges. There are many, many jurisdictions willing to take you to court and use the people's deep pockets in an attempt to enforce their local laws, right or wrong.

The license fee is a "leave me alone" tax. I pay it because it's cheaper than a 10-year legal battle over my constitutional right to carry.

As indicated above, an open-carried gun is a "Shoot Me First" sign. Wear it if you want, I wouldn't.
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Old 12-23-2012, 07:28 AM   #7
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I've never thought open carry was ever a good idea. I pick and choose when I want to carry concealed but I carry most of the time. No licence.
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Old 12-23-2012, 07:47 AM   #8
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Don't get me wrong, I agree with CC being much safer than open carry. As i stated, i had a valid CC permit at one time. I just don't agree with the fact that in some states the permit is your only option to exercise a right.
Trust me i don't want to fight a 10 year legal battle either. It's easier to just comply and get a permit. I just have a hard time with the principle of it i guess.
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Old 12-23-2012, 07:53 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by ChesapeakeBay View Post
Don't get me wrong, I agree with CC being much safer than open carry. As i stated, i had a valid CC permit at one time. I just don't agree with the fact that in some states the permit is your only option to exercise a right.
Trust me i don't want to fight a 10 year legal battle either. It's easier to just comply and get a permit. I just have a hard time with the principle of it i guess.

NC is an open carry state too and around here it's not unusual to see people with one strapped on in public. Not sure why there would be a 10 year legal battle for doing someting that is legal. Maybe I'm missing something.
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Old 12-23-2012, 08:01 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by ChesapeakeBay View Post
Don't get me wrong, I agree with CC being much safer than open carry. As i stated, i had a valid CC permit at one time. I just don't agree with the fact that in some states the permit is your only option to exercise a right.
Trust me i don't want to fight a 10 year legal battle either. It's easier to just comply and get a permit. I just have a hard time with the principle of it i guess.
It's your right to dislike something based on principle.

The CCW license isn't all bad. Part of what you're paying for is a serious background check to prove that you have a clean police record. That CCW can entitle you to a streamlined process for buying firearms and tells law enforcement officers they are dealing with a generally law-abiding citizen should they ever stop you.

Shag- "10-year legal battle" stuff was not about open-carry, rather conceled carry in violation of a must-have-a-license law. Might answer your question.
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Old 12-23-2012, 08:06 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yarcraft91 View Post
Shag- "10-year legal battle" stuff was not about open-carry, rather conceled carry in violation of a must-have-a-license law. Might answer your question.
Thanks. Missed that part.
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Old 12-23-2012, 01:46 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by Shag View Post
NC is an open carry state too and around here it's not unusual to see people with one strapped on in public. Not sure why there would be a 10 year legal battle for doing someting that is legal. Maybe I'm missing something.
Not true.

Additionally, under NC Code Chapter 14 § 160A.189, a city may by ordinance … regulate the display of firearms on the streets, sidewalks, alleys, or other public property.

While the word “display” does not appear to be defined in the Code, some localities in NC have adopted, or are considering adopting ordinances like the city of Chapel Hill’s which restrict the open carry of handguns.

This was challenged in State v. Fennell (1989) and the NC Court of Appeals upheld previous NC court decisions stating that the guarantee of an individual right to openly bear arms in the NC constitution was subject to reasonable regulation declaring that “a pistol shall not be under a certain length.”


North Carolina | OpenCarry.org

www.opencarry.org/?page_id=282
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Old 12-23-2012, 02:06 PM   #13
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MS is theoretically an open carry state. However, the only way to accomplish that is by a lanyard around the neck. Any other method conceals some portion of the weapon.
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Old 12-23-2012, 03:13 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by thefever View Post
your in a 7-11 getting a soda , back turned to the store. Bad guy comes in to rob the place, see's your piece. SHOOTS YOU FIRST . Not so smart to open carry. Just my 2 cents.
Or the other side of the coin...bad guy comes in, sees your piece and leaves to go rob someplace that you aren't at.
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Old 12-23-2012, 03:21 PM   #15
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You may be entirely correct in your assertions about rights and privileges.

State governments have been regulating firearms since the first saloon made cow pokes check their shootin irons at the bar, as the Constitution allows them to do. The salient test of any regulation is whether or not that reg unduly restricts a citizen from exercising a Constitutional 'right'. I strongly suspect the requirement to obtain a CC permit has been adjudicated on more than one occasion, and the general premise found to NOT violate a Constitutional right, in and of itself. The Second Amendment does not extend to carrying what ever, when ever, how ever, and where ever ...
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Old 12-23-2012, 03:29 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thalasso View Post
Not true.

Additionally, under NC Code Chapter 14 § 160A.189, a city may by ordinance … regulate the display of firearms on the streets, sidewalks, alleys, or other public property.

While the word “display” does not appear to be defined in the Code, some localities in NC have adopted, or are considering adopting ordinances like the city of Chapel Hill’s which restrict the open carry of handguns.

This was challenged in State v. Fennell (1989) and the NC Court of Appeals upheld previous NC court decisions stating that the guarantee of an individual right to openly bear arms in the NC constitution was subject to reasonable regulation declaring that “a pistol shall not be under a certain length.”


North Carolina | OpenCarry.org

www.opencarry.org/?page_id=282
Do I need to answer you twice?

NC is an open carry state. It is not permissive open carry but anomalous open carry. You are correct that municipalities may limit the open carry but few have. Come on, you can do better than citing Chapel Hill. Who you gonna cite next, Cary?

Last edited by Shag; 12-23-2012 at 03:46 PM.
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Old 12-23-2012, 09:01 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by Shag View Post
Do I need to answer you twice?

NC is an open carry state. It is not permissive open carry but anomalous open carry. You are correct that municipalities may limit the open carry but few have. Come on, you can do better than citing Chapel Hill. Who you gonna cite next, Cary?
When you make a broad statement like you did, you give out erroneous information.
Chapel Hill is just an example.
I can get you more areas of N.C if you like.
Shouldn't be putting out B.S.


Your post.

NC is an open carry state too and around here it's not unusuall to see people with one strapped on in public. Not sure why there would be a 10 year legal battle for doing something that is legal. Maybe I'm missing something

Where is (It is not permissive open carry but anomalous open carry.) this in your post?

I say again, if your going to give out information, give it out correct.
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Old 12-23-2012, 09:53 PM   #18
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I've seen a good many open carriers in NC. I've been one, but only when hunting and have my sidearm strapped to me anyway. Never thought twice about stopping and going into a business with it on my side. It's just the way it is.
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Old 12-24-2012, 03:49 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thalasso View Post
When you make a broad statement like you did, you give out erroneous information.
Chapel Hill is just an example.
I can get you more areas of N.C if you like.
Shouldn't be putting out B.S.


Your post.

NC is an open carry state too and around here it's not unusuall to see people with one strapped on in public. Not sure why there would be a 10 year legal battle for doing something that is legal. Maybe I'm missing something

Where is (It is not permissive open carry but anomalous open carry.) this in your post?

I say again, if your going to give out information, give it out correct.
It was correct. If you want to call a correct statement "broad" then go for it. NC is one of the anomalous open carry states. I'll type slowly so you can understand it. That means the state legislature allows for open carry but, like you posted, local municipalities can restrict it. I'll say it again, around here (where I live) it's not unusual to see open carry. No need to give me the few areas of NC that don't permit open carry. I live here. I already know. You sir are the one spreading the bullshit.
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Old 12-24-2012, 03:51 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cape_fisherman View Post
I've seen a good many open carriers in NC. I've been one, but only when hunting and have my sidearm strapped to me anyway. Never thought twice about stopping and going into a business with it on my side. It's just the way it is.
That's illegal because Thalasso from Pittsburgh says so.
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