The Hull Truth - Boating and Fishing Forum

Go Back   The Hull Truth - Boating and Fishing Forum > BOATING FORUMS > Dockside Chat
Search

Notices

Random Quote: I owe the government $3,400 in taxes. So I sent them two hammers and a toilet seat.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 07-31-2012, 11:06 AM
  #1    
Senior MemberCaptains Club Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Manteo NC, Charlestown RI
Posts: 3,567
Default Bubbling of home's exterior paint.

I have a question to ask some of the home improvement folks in this forum. A friend of the family who lives in Va recently had their home painted with Sherwin Williams Duration paint, the siding is cedar shakes. They are having an issue with the paint bubbling during hard rain, or pro-longed rainy days, the bubbles seem to go away when the sun hits them for a day or two. The contractor who did the job claims it's not his work causing the problem, he also had a SW's rep come down to test the paint and it was ok?

I am guessing that maybe the contractor painted over wet siding?
__________________
23' Regulator Classic (sold)
21' Scout Sportfish (sold)
20' Scout Sportfish (sold)

Manteo, NC / Charlestown, RI
NewMoon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-31-2012, 11:17 AM
  #2    
Admirals Club
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Amongst the FL fishies
Posts: 3,308
Default

adhesion problem. painted over a treated surface or one that hadn't cured out.
airbrush is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Old 07-31-2012, 11:25 AM
  #3    
Senior MemberCaptains Club Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Downeast, North Carolina
Posts: 5,051
Default

I've always ben told and/or read that paint bubbling/peeling is caused by moisture behind the paint. The cause can be any number of things such as poor vapor barrier, bad flashing, excissive moisture upon installtion and not allowing it to dry. I'm sure there's a lot more.

The only times I've worked with cedar siding, it was preprimed at the factory on all sides. We primed every cut before install. For unprimed, I was under the impression you shouldn't paint it till it "aged" and there were "special" primers and paints due to the tannin in cedar. I'm guessing that the proper way is test the moisture content before painting.

Hopefully, someone here has some positive insight. The only time I saw a house they couldn't resolve the peeling problem, they had to pressure wash, sand and repaint with stain.

My old house was cedar shakes, I left them natural.
__________________
"If Heaven ain't a lot like Dixie, I don't want to go"
davedowneast is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-31-2012, 11:30 AM
  #4    
Senior MemberCaptains Club Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: RI
Posts: 4,126
Default

It is not typically an adhesion problem, it is a moisture problem.

Were the shakes back primed first? Not likely. Where they even primed?

When we did my house with verticle red cedar siding, it was fully primed first including the cuts.

Fortunately shakes have some space to breath so there may never be a peeling problem.
BACKTOTHESEA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-31-2012, 11:33 AM
  #5    
Senior MemberCaptains Club Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 4,748
Default

Surface preparation. Duration is good paint.
My Gal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-31-2012, 12:08 PM
  #6    
Admirals Club
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Miami, Fl
Posts: 735
Default

The surface was not properly prepared (ie. primed) before the paint was applied. What is happening is that he is getting moisture behind the paint causing it to bubble, when the sun hits the bubbled up paint the moisture behind it gets dry and the bubble goes away.
13 Rounds is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-31-2012, 12:21 PM
  #7    
Senior MemberCaptains Club Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 1,172
Default

Should have been primed w/a stain blocking primer.
Paint Chemist
__________________
MAXIMUM B
MAXIMUM B is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-31-2012, 12:41 PM
  #8    
Admirals Club
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Port Aransas, TX
Posts: 2,231
Default

My guess is it's peeling towards the edges or corners?? Water is probably getting behind the planks when it rains. How about when the humidity is way up there?
__________________
2013 Calcutta 26
2007 Tidewater 18 Bay Boat
2004 Pursuit 3070 Express

2005 Cape Horn 31T *Sold*
2007 Panga Marine Boca Grande 22 *Sold*
2007 Panga dot Com 22LX *Sold*
1998 Pursuit 2870 CC "Sold"
2000 Boston Whaler 22 Dauntless "Sold"
snapperkid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-31-2012, 01:45 PM
  #9    
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 165
Default

Should have used sherwin williams solid stain on unpainted / unprimed cedar.
jbooker9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-31-2012, 03:55 PM
  #10    
Banned
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 6,069
Default

Painted in direct sunlight. The surface dried before adhering to the siding.

It's called skinning over

Not a paint problem but a painter problem.
gort is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-31-2012, 04:00 PM
  #11    
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 2,572
Default

Dark colors with hot direct sunlight isn't good. How dark is the color?

Painting in direct sunlight or on a hot surface entraps vapors as the paint dries too fast. These vapors expand, causing small- to medium-sized bubbles under the top layer of paint. Because darker colors absorb more heat, you are less likely to experience this problem with lighter color tones but it does happen.

Another cause of paint bubbles is moisture coming from inside or outside. Unlike the bubbles associated with heat, moisture bubbles penetrate through all layers of paint, into the surface. The moisture becomes trapped, thus expanding the paint film. Inside moisture is due to leaks from the house, perhaps because of plumbing problems. Outside moisture can come from precipitation. The bubbles may appear within a few hours or may take as long as a few days to pop up.

Painting over cedar shakes not a good idea to begin with maybe a stain should of been used like mentioned.
Gator56 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-01-2012, 05:29 AM
  #12    
Senior MemberCaptains Club Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Manteo NC, Charlestown RI
Posts: 3,567
Default

Can you folks take a look at this video and give your opinions?

http://s101.photobucket.com/albums/m...0426121029.mp4
__________________
23' Regulator Classic (sold)
21' Scout Sportfish (sold)
20' Scout Sportfish (sold)

Manteo, NC / Charlestown, RI
NewMoon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-01-2012, 05:49 AM
  #13    
Senior MemberCaptains Club Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: CT
Posts: 15,867
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by davedowneast View Post
I've always ben told and/or read that paint bubbling/peeling is caused by moisture behind the paint. The cause can be any number of things such as poor vapor barrier, bad flashing, excissive moisture upon installtion and not allowing it to dry. I'm sure there's a lot more.

The only times I've worked with cedar siding, it was preprimed at the factory on all sides. We primed every cut before install. For unprimed, I was under the impression you shouldn't paint it till it "aged" and there were "special" primers and paints due to the tannin in cedar. I'm guessing that the proper way is test the moisture content before painting.

Hopefully, someone here has some positive insight. The only time I saw a house they couldn't resolve the peeling problem, they had to pressure wash, sand and repaint with stain.

My old house was cedar shakes, I left them natural.
Yes

I don't know if this was ever resolved but when latex paint first came out it was so good (vapor and water barrier) that it created a second vapor barrier thus trapping the moisture between the outer layer of paint and the inside wall or insulation vapor barrier. No matter how good you prepare or dry the shingles out it would eventually least to moisture build-up between the walls and therefore eventually cause damage.

I use solid stains outside and I think this is something solid stain is better for but do not know for sure.


I would do some serious research on the internet and if you effectively have 2 vapor barriers that paint has to go or you have to add breather pores (I forget the technical term) under some of the shakes or shingles.

Good Luck - let us know what you find.....

Wow I just saw the video - i have no idea if latex paint is supposed to be able to breathe and let the moisture out BUT I recommend to get that paint off. Think about it does that water go out through the paint barrier or through the inside wall(s) - even if it goes out through the paint in a few days or weeks do you want that water there even for that long?

Update......from what I saw on the internet so far it does say latex paints "breathe" hmmmmmm Maybe yours has a slow respiratory rate??
__________________
1st Cav Div Air Assault Infantry RVN
-Can Do........ and .......Carry On -

Last edited by LI Sound Grunt; 08-01-2012 at 05:59 AM.
LI Sound Grunt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-01-2012, 06:58 AM
  #14    
Senior MemberCaptains Club Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: CT
Posts: 15,867
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MAXIMUM B View Post
Should have been primed w/a stain blocking primer.
Paint Chemist
But , then what about that water underneath - see video in Ne wMoon's last post? Does the primer somehow allow the latex paint to breathe?
__________________
1st Cav Div Air Assault Infantry RVN
-Can Do........ and .......Carry On -
LI Sound Grunt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-01-2012, 01:17 PM
  #15    
Senior MemberCaptains Club Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 790
Default

My house is doing the EXACT same thing! My painter said the house was never primed correctly from the when it was built in 1986. I've been having it touched up every year and had the front repainted in May and that is already starting to bubble. The price to have the whole house stripped bare and primed was a little more then 1/2 the cost to side it. I need to get two more years out of the paint then it gets sided. By the way I've tried Benjamin Moore and Sherman Williams and they both bubble off the house.
Moby1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-01-2012, 01:33 PM
  #16    
Senior MemberCaptains Club Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 1,172
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by moby1 View Post
my house is doing the exact same thing! My painter said the house was never primed correctly from the when it was built in 1986. I've been having it touched up every year and had the front repainted in may and that is already starting to bubble. The price to have the whole house stripped bare and primed was a little more then 1/2 the cost to side it. I need to get two more years out of the paint then it gets sided. By the way i've tried benjamin moore and sherman williams and they both bubble off the house.
bingo!
__________________
MAXIMUM B
MAXIMUM B is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-01-2012, 01:35 PM
  #17    
Senior MemberCaptains Club Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 1,172
Default

The same thing will happen with preprimed siding. The primer is so hard that nothing will stick to it. Preprimed should be reprimed.
__________________
MAXIMUM B
MAXIMUM B is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-01-2012, 02:11 PM
  #18    
Senior MemberCaptains Club Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: CT
Posts: 15,867
Default

So One of your guys are a paint chemist? So my curiousity is up. So does the water go thru the paint then take along time to get out? Apparantly lots of people have this bubbling so I can't inagine they all painted when it was wet....

And, anyway the question is (all primers aside) what does he do now? Live with siding that could rot? Will it decay in this scenario? Scrape it off primer and paint - or what is the recommendation?

Does the primer some how make the paint one way - let the moisture out but not in?

And.,,,,,,, just for my information as I will be doing some coatings this fall....is solid stain a better choice for this application and what is the difference between latex solid stain and latex paint.
Thanks...
__________________
1st Cav Div Air Assault Infantry RVN
-Can Do........ and .......Carry On -
LI Sound Grunt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-01-2012, 02:47 PM
  #19    
Banned
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 6,069
Default

This is not a paint in the sun problem. Actually now it doesn't look like a paint problem at all, but a siding installation problem. No way that much water should be getting thru the surface. Taking a section of siding down is the only way you are going to figure this one out. My guess now is you have short claps nailed directly to the sheathing.

Take a few off and post another video including a shot up the wall and around the window.
gort is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2012, 09:42 AM
  #20    
Senior MemberCaptains Club Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 1,172
Default

Hey, I just looked at the video. Man you have a big issue. That water is not going through the paint film. If it could get through it wouldnt be able to collect because if it went in it is going to come out. The film cannot let the water through from the outside and then hold it. First thing I would do is pull a shingle and see if the back side of the shingle is wet. It is probably a good thing the paint is delaminating, otherwise you wouldn't have know about the problem until the wood rotted. If you remember years ago the disaster of the fake stucco? Everybodies
house was rotting because the stucco didn't breath and let moisture out.
You have a serious leak. That much water doesn't come fro intrusion.
Check the back side of a shingle, the problem is it may not be coming from the imediate area. It could be the leak is someware else and the wood is wicking it up allowing it to travel. One good bet would be to check the flashing behind the gutters.
Could be your gutters over flow when it rains and then it goes under the flashing into the wall. Have you seen any indications of moisture inside? That much water, your insulation is soaked. Primer would not have helped, the water is coming from behind the paint film.
__________________
MAXIMUM B
MAXIMUM B is offline   Reply With Quote
 
 
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

 



©2009 TheHullTruth.com

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.2.0