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Old 04-08-2012, 09:54 AM
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Default An End To The 40 Year War On Drugs?

Prohibition is a failure and has historically never worked. I welcome and end to prohibition to take away the power from the drug cartels.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012...erican-leaders
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Old 04-08-2012, 10:12 AM
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While I agree, you're fighting a legal and law enforcement system, as well as a huge government bureaucracy, here in the US that's very entrenched in keeping drugs illegal. I think public opinion has changed and most folks agree that the "War on Drugs" is a failure, however, bringing about change within the system will take years. Doubt I'll see it my lifetime.
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Old 04-08-2012, 11:55 AM
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Tough question - which has been more successful, the "War on Drugs" or the "War on Poverty"? Kind of like, as I learned on THT earlier, trying to pick up the clean end of a turd...
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Old 04-08-2012, 03:10 PM
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Hahahahhahaha -- it will NEVER happen. Crime would plummet and quality of life would increase. We can't have that.

Want some fun reading? Look up the relationship between strong PBA Unions and strict gun laws. What you'll find is that where the PBA is strongest is where you have the most restrictive gun laws. Why? That's the way the cops costing us $300k a year want to keep it.

I think drugs (like casinos) are the wrong path -- but at the end of the day, make the drugs legal and get the tax money from there instead of hard working men and women.
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Old 04-08-2012, 07:01 PM
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I am at the point now some people NEED to find a way for natural selection to take themselves out of the gene pool. Thin the herd, kill them with kindness give them all the smack they can afford.
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Old 04-09-2012, 08:31 AM
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So you think that legalizing drugs and taxing the hell out of them will stop violence or the cartels? The cartels would just smuggle in stronger and cheaper stuff into the country and undercut the government's product. They don't used FDA regulations, have OSHA or minimum labor rates. Sure you cut the cartel's profit margin but do you think they will just throw their hands up and quit doing what they were? The local dealers will still have turf wars over who sells the cheaper illegal stuff where.

I agree that the war on drugs isn't very successful. I feel like most people can get their hands on drugs without too much effort. The reason they don't is because they don't want legal trouble. The addicts will do what the addicts are going to do. If they rob you for drug money what does it matter who they buy their drugs from? If it's a drug cartel or the government getting paid I see little difference. Making it easier for people to become addicts will only hurt the crime rate and make our diminishing work force less productive.
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Old 04-09-2012, 08:47 AM
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Do you go to a moonshiner to buy your liquor or to a store that sells spirits. If you can get a product of known purity from private sector why would you go out on the street to buy it? At some point the value of cartel imported drugs will decrease and the financial incentives will disappear for smugglers. It's risk vs. return. That's economics 101.

The reason people who aren't interested in doing drugs don't seek out drugs is because they made a choice not to use drugs. I never heard someone say I won't do that because it's illegal. I also never heard someone say I don't do drugs because they are so hard to get.

How about every inmate incarcerated for drug activity. It costs approx $35K to house an inmate for 1 year. In FL about 9 out of every 10 cases are drug related. That would all end. The market prices for these drugs would fall dramatically. As a result violent crime will drop as well.
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Old 04-09-2012, 11:23 AM
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ThreeLittleFish, you seriously don't know people who don't do drugs because they are illegal? Most people I know don't do drugs because they don't want to go to jail or be fired from their job. We all know if you are arrested on drug charges you are probably going to loose your job. There is a drug out there that can appeal to anybody.
Of the 9 out of 10 drug related crimes committed by inmates in Florida, how many were simple posession charges? I bet the answer isn't a whole number. As weak as our legal system is now, a pound of weed will probably get you probation. 90% of the criminal cases where the defendant was found guilty had drugs involved.
Let's look at this a different way. Say drugs are legal and the Governmet sells them. Me and the guy down the street are now crackheads. He just went and got a bunch of crack this afternoon. I am crashing because I have been on a 2 day bender and ran out. I don't get paid for another week so I can't go to the drug store and pick up anymore. I really do need more crack though. In my crack crazed, no sleep for 2 days state of mind am I going to A) Just try to tuff it out for a week? B) Go get more crack from the guy down the street who isn't going to share? 9 out of 10 inmates in Florida committed a felony and got the crack they needed.
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Old 04-09-2012, 01:56 PM
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ThreeLittleFish, you seriously don't know people who don't do drugs because they are illegal? Most people I know don't do drugs because they don't want to go to jail or be fired from their job. We all know if you are arrested on drug charges you are probably going to loose your job. There is a drug out there that can appeal to anybody.
Of the 9 out of 10 drug related crimes committed by inmates in Florida, how many were simple posession charges? I bet the answer isn't a whole number. As weak as our legal system is now, a pound of weed will probably get you probation. 90% of the criminal cases where the defendant was found guilty had drugs involved.
Let's look at this a different way. Say drugs are legal and the Governmet sells them. Me and the guy down the street are now crackheads. He just went and got a bunch of crack this afternoon. I am crashing because I have been on a 2 day bender and ran out. I don't get paid for another week so I can't go to the drug store and pick up anymore. I really do need more crack though. In my crack crazed, no sleep for 2 days state of mind am I going to A) Just try to tuff it out for a week? B) Go get more crack from the guy down the street who isn't going to share? 9 out of 10 inmates in Florida committed a felony and got the crack they needed.
You make ZERO sense. It's about keeping the money out of the cartels hands! If your smoking crack be it legal or not your going to commit a crime to get it. Being a legal drug isn't goign to make more people apt to use it.

"Hey Jon... you want a hit on the old crack pipe. You know it's legal now." "Oh yeah sure... since it's legal pass me down the pipe." Are you kidding me?!?!?

Whether it's legal or not does not mean the workplace has to adopt the same policy. Pilots have strict rules about drinking. No booze 8 hours before flying. Alcohol is legal. Just because it's legal doesn't mean it's ok to be under the influence of it at work. Not a whole lot of people show up to work drunk. And those that are are fired.

This is the best argument you can make? It's really weak.
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Old 04-09-2012, 02:01 PM
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The solution to the war on drugs is for Americans and everyone else who does not call themselves an American to get a backbone and stop taking drugs. The solution is not to legalize and tax drugs.

Once the demand is eliminated the supply problem will follow and so will the crime, so will the cost to incarcerate, the cost to rehabilitate and the cost to put these people on lifelong welfare programs.

There are too many weak minded people in America who think they have a right to get high on drugs. No one has a right to get high even those phony people who talk their doctor's into giving them medical pot cards.
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Old 04-09-2012, 02:09 PM
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Default A question for you all....

If drugs were legal and you drive under the influence should you be free of consequences?

Should you be able to work as a railroad switcher or airplane pilot while using illegal subtances? Should your employer be prevented from testing as a requirement for employment?

If drugs were legal, and you overdose, should you receive free care in the ER like you do now? Should 911 respond?

Will people stop stealing and burglarizing if drugs were legal?

Will violent people still produce and try to control drug use?

If you become addicted and lose your job and don't feed or care for your kids should society still jump in and fix everything for you like they do currently?

Ever lived with an addict? (of any kind?)

Inquiring minds would like to know?
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Old 04-09-2012, 02:11 PM
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The solution to the war on drugs is for Americans and everyone else who does not call themselves an American to get a backbone and stop taking drugs. The solution is not to legalize and tax drugs.

Once the demand is eliminated the supply problem will follow and so will the crime, so will the cost to incarcerate, the cost to rehabilitate and the cost to put these people on lifelong welfare programs.

There are too many weak minded people in America who think they have a right to get high on drugs. No one has a right to get high even those phony people who talk their doctor's into giving them medical pot cards.
Good luck with that. Self medication has been around for a long, long time and not just in America. What about booze?
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Old 04-09-2012, 02:15 PM
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The drug lords will find a way to become legal. Better to have a slice of the pie then none at all.
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Old 04-09-2012, 02:34 PM
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Originally Posted by ThreeLittleFish View Post
Prohibition is a failure and has historically never worked. I welcome and end to prohibition to take away the power from the drug cartels.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012...erican-leaders
Please cite any country where all drugs are legal. How's that working out for them?
If morphine and crack should be freely available and legal, should all prescription drugs become OTC and available at the walmart? i.e. no more prescriptions.
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Old 04-09-2012, 02:38 PM
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In the US the prison system is being privatized, the private prison lobby is pushing for stricter penalties for non-violent crimes, and are huge backers of the AZ style immigration reform because it will increase the demand for jail beds. If the war on drugs ended and Billion dollar business would end, cops, helicopters, infrared to look for heat, DEA..... all gone.
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Old 04-09-2012, 02:56 PM
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Please cite any country where all drugs are legal. How's that working out for them?
The Netherlands.

Rather well.
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Old 04-09-2012, 03:27 PM
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The Netherlands.

Rather well.
Switzerland, too. Heroin is legal, crime is waaaaaay down. I watched a really good episode on (I think) NatGeo's Drug Wars show. At first, things went bonkers, but it settled down and more addicts than ever now are getting their heroin (for free) at the doctor's office. And, they are holding jobs and actually getting their lives back together. It's a pretty big success story compared to what it used to be.

Just because they legalize pot (or whatever) doesn't mean that everybody is instantly going to turn into a Beavis/Butthead pothead. And for the dipstick that commented on medical marijuana issues, you have no idea. Keep taking the Oxycodone or whatever it is the doctor prescribes for you. When they stop working because you've built up a huge tolerance to them and you're once again in pain and haven't shit in a week because you're so constipated from opiate use, drop me a line and let me know how you really feel, k?
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Old 04-09-2012, 03:33 PM
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We need the government out of what we do in private that does not hurt others directly. When it does (such as DUI) then fine, get involved. Regulate and tax the industry. The current situation is ridiculous, and I don't even do drugs any more and haven't since my " irresponsible youth" as G W Bush used to say.
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Old 04-09-2012, 03:38 PM
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ThreeLittleFish, you seriously don't know people who don't do drugs because they are illegal? Most people I know don't do drugs because they don't want to go to jail or be fired from their job. We all know if you are arrested on drug charges you are probably going to loose your job. There is a drug out there that can appeal to anybody.
Of the 9 out of 10 drug related crimes committed by inmates in Florida, how many were simple posession charges? I bet the answer isn't a whole number. As weak as our legal system is now, a pound of weed will probably get you probation. 90% of the criminal cases where the defendant was found guilty had drugs involved.
Let's look at this a different way. Say drugs are legal and the Governmet sells them. Me and the guy down the street are now crackheads. He just went and got a bunch of crack this afternoon. I am crashing because I have been on a 2 day bender and ran out. I don't get paid for another week so I can't go to the drug store and pick up anymore. I really do need more crack though. In my crack crazed, no sleep for 2 days state of mind am I going to A) Just try to tuff it out for a week? B) Go get more crack from the guy down the street who isn't going to share? 9 out of 10 inmates in Florida committed a felony and got the crack they needed.
Yeah, I know 10 crackheads who wont smoke crack because it is illegal...

Do you read what you type? Its pretty funny.
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Old 04-09-2012, 04:35 PM
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The Netherlands.

Rather well.
Just saying it doesn't make it so. Inform yourself by reading this article:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drug_po...he_Netherlands

Drugs in The Netherlands remain a problem and remain largely illegal. You can cherry pick stat's from the article as you like, but significant problems exist in "drug free" The Netherlands.

Last edited by dssmith; 04-09-2012 at 04:57 PM.
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