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Random Quote: We're out of petrol? Maybe *you* should get out and push, *I'll* steer.
I understand that in basic now you don't have to run at X speed for X distance or do X pushups, you just have to "put forth your best effort".
Huh????? Is this true? What PC bullsh*t is this? In my day we had to meet standards and if we didn't we got extra PT or kicked out!
"Put forth your best effort" What a joke.......oh don't worry I know you did your best, but you couldn't run far enough fast enough and the enemy got you...oh well at least you tried!
.........they are not held to the same physical standards as men.........
Yes this is true. The women's physical fitness test was easier than the men's and we were OK with this because we knew they were only ever going to be in the rear with the gear.
Now if they want equal opportunity then they should be damn well treated and measured equally and if they don't measure up they don't get the job.
None of this pussy double standard just because they are women.
I am totally against it. You cannot possible treat a fellow trooper the same way if he is a she. It isn't natural and goes against everything that makes you a man. If I am out in the field - jungle desert or whatever I am gonna be thinking of the damn broads when I should be totally focused on my mission. I can't even imagine the friction among the troops that this would cause with love triangles and macho posturing and all.
And remember how bad we all felt when we found out they captured 2 of our girls.
We can pretend we are equal and in many regards we are - intelligence, rights, etc. but you have to admit you ALWAYS act slightly different around women that men - at home , work, everywhere.
Its a biological thing that we cannot fight. Our women are too important - they have our babies and raise them and lets face it are more important to the survival of the species than men.
I have no problem with them being CEOs doctors lawyers politicians or President or anything that does not put them in an obviously and inherently dangerous situation.
And finally they just don't have the b@lls to do the kinds of things and make the decisions that have to be made in combat. Heck, they can't even get the buzzer ringing right and quick htinking required on Jeopardy. Also, simply biologicl.
We live in an almost virtual world where we sit at desks and produce products that don't even really exist that require no physical strength at all. Women are more creative have better concentration and patience and almost made for this shit. They even have relatively proportionately wider a$$es for the chairs to better distribute weight and deal with the stresses and physical demands inherent in office
The few things that actually require things that a man can do better like soldiering policing and firefighting should be left to the men. The women can be the administrators and the provide support services but where the rubber meets the road - men do it best. Its where we belong. Look - that movie Hurt Locker - ain't no woman gonna do that sh!t and comeback for more because it is her calling.
So what do you guys think? Should we send our women into combat to try to protect us?
The problem with women in the military is very similar to the problem with gays in the military - it's the hangups of the men that cause most the problems. A gay guy can shoot people just as easily as a straight guy, but if you find out someone is gay, you aren't going to treat them the same way you would treat others in your unit. I am not condoning it, but it's true. If a gay guy gets shot and is bleeding, you are going to think twice about getting blood on your hands.
We have the same issue with women. Guys can withstand a certain amount of torture, and even withstand watching a fellow soldier get tortured, but wouldn't be able to watch a woman get tortured.
Unless we as a society can get over those types of hangups, there will always be additional friction, just like there was when the army started integrating blacks and whites together.
In terms of combat roles involving strength and endurance, yes there are many physiological differences that people won't admit. Women's hips are further apart. This means that all other things being equal, women can't run, swim, or jump at the same level as a man. Of course one could argue that our armed forces now have plenty of fat, lazy, out of shape young males in general infantry who couldn't pass a PT test to save their life.
My wife is retired Army. She spent 20 years in the Army before retiring, including one year in Iraq. Last week we flew to Austin, TX to visit some family, and they were hosting a marathon and half marathon that weekend. At the last minute someone couldn't make their flight down and gave my wife her bib number. Without any training or preparation at all, Deb decided to run the half. While her time wasn't stellar, just the fact that she was physically capable of running a half marathon with no advance training should say something about her level of physical fitness. It wouldn't be fair to compare her level of fitness to some male IRR callups who seem to disgrace the uniform. To be fair, you need to compare males and females in the same age group and fitness level.
Women can lose a larger portion of blood. They have a higher pain tolerance. On the flip side, they are not as fast, not as strong, and more prone to infection when subjected to poor hygiene conditions. I don't buy the buzzer thing because stupidity knows no gender boundaries. I have also seen some women who can be ruthless and have no problem with snap decisions and I wouldn't doubt it if they were capable of eating their own young.
Keep in mind the older you are, the more your perceptions of women were formed from back in the day when a good wife obeyed her husband. Since women are no longer forced by society to comply with what their husbands tell them to do, you now get to see that they are entirely capable of making decisions on their own. My father always made the decisions because he was the man of the house, and my mothers lack of decisions was based on her adapting to society's view that women should comply. It's not that she was incapable of decision making, it's just that society dictated that it was the husband's job, so if put in a role where snap decision are needed, many women can do it just as well as men.
So I agree with you that integrating women can cause friction, and that they are not physically as strong, but after that we diverge.
In terms of the width of their bottoms, any comment about the size of my wife's rear end would go badly for me. You are right about physical strength, and I don't think her hand strength would't handle my .44 very well. However, she's a very good shot with my .40 and I'd still be just as dead
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Honestly, I think one of the biggest barriers for women in combat isn't even the women themselves, but the fact that we (men) tend to coddle them and try to caretake them. Yes, they have different hygenic needs, but I think that those can be overcome.....hell, PMS may even work to your advantage in combat. I can come up with plenty of arguments against it, but in the end they mostly come down more to how the genders interact that any real or perceived inadequacy of the female gender.
Well said. Women as a whole have less physical strength, but there is plenty of overlap in most roles, where a number of the women are in better physical shape than some of the men. A fit 20yo male can outrun a fit 20yo female, but that same 20yo fit female can easily outrun a 20 yo overweight fat slob.
So if you are letting the slob who can't do 3 pullups into a certain role, I don't see why you should bar women from it. Also keep in mind that the entire female population as a whole doesn't agree on anything, so comments like "they all want this or that" realyl holds no water. It's teh actions of some.
All that said, I think there will always be certain roles that remain exclusively all male.
Let's not mix being in a fire fight and being on a sub. No one is saying women are not smart enough to serve on a sub. I am sure they are more than capable of running the reactor, tracking a target,standing watch etc. What the problem is the 'total' lack of privacy on a sub. Even the boomers at 352 ft are cramped at best. Unless you are the Xo or CO the officers have three to a stateroom and if you are enlisted you hot rack.
People sleep in the torpedo room, the missle room, just about anywhere they can squeeze a body.
Subs were never designed to be co ed. Why not ask the wives how they feel about women on the boat.
Do you have any idea how russian troops were brutally raped by the afghan mujihan when the russians were chased out of afghanastan. It is not something you will ever read about in news papers. Do you know that our captured soldiers were eaten by their japanese captors during ww2 in some but not all instances. War is not civilized incase you were not aware?
My arguement "stinks" but i dont see your answer. I have read a book about the japs eating american pilots it called "flyboys". And if the afgans will rape men what do you think they will do to women? Dont single me out, several seem to be in agreement with me.
From my experience in combat..basically when that first round goes over your head, and or mortar and artillery rounds land near you..the whole game plan is again basically out the window..survival mode/adrelaline takes over and you soon find out what your instincts are made of..Yu have no control of it, so no tough guys/rambos here, it is what it is..
Now, from a females stand point.. i dont have any experience serving with them in combat so it would be hard to make that assumption...but I will say or guess that mentally they would fail because they dont have that 'will to kill' or that aggression and determination to thrust a K-bar into the enemies neck and twist it without remorse.
As for subs I will leave that up to the squids to make that determination.
I could go into this further but I hope you catch my drift..
Semper fish You know why gays shouldnt serve in combat? >>>>>
Quote:
Originally Posted by Semper Fi-sh
From my experience in combat..basically when that first round goes over your head, and or mortar and artillery rounds land near you..the whole game plan is again basically out the window..survival mode/adrelaline takes over and you soon find out what your instincts are made of..Yu have no control of it, so no tough guys/rambos here, it is what it is..
Now, from a females stand point.. i dont have any experience serving with them in combat so it would be hard to make that assumption...but I will say or guess that mentally they would fail because they dont have that 'will to kill' or that aggression and determination to thrust a K-bar into the enemies neck and twist it without remorse.
As for subs I will leave that up to the squids to make that determination.
I could go into this further but I hope you catch my drift..
Semper Fi and god bless
You reminded me from years ago hearing that first round whizing slightly over my head?! I didnt know I could tighten my ass any tighter and not break something? It must have helped? Im still here. Dont even know why I tightened my ass? The round was very close over my head? A gay guy probably cant tighten his ass that tight?
It has been my experiance in the army that 1 out of 10 females can actually do there job. The otheirs are there for moral. I'm not saying they cant do the job ,but the ones that will get in that can't will be huge and make the force useless. There are plenty of females that could do what i did. But they where few and far between. Generally the hegiene requirments also got in the way and they ended up getting moved back to the support company. The main problem will be that by letting women in the the one or two you get that will be good at there job will be out numberd by the lazy moral boosters. not that there bad i just hate carrying more han my own weight. and shouldn't have to.
It has been my experiance in the army that 1 out of 10 females can actually do there job. The otheirs are there for moral. I'm not saying they cant do the job ,but the ones that will get in that can't will be huge and make the force useless. There are plenty of females that could do what i did. But they where few and far between. Generally the hegiene requirments also got in the way and they ended up getting moved back to the support company. The main problem will be that by letting women in the the one or two you get that will be good at there job will be out numberd by the lazy moral boosters. not that there bad i just hate carrying more han my own weight. and shouldn't have to.
were talking COMBAT soldier..this has nothing to do with being in the rear with the gear..any human can do that!
From my experience in combat..basically when that first round goes over your head, and or mortar and artillery rounds land near you..the whole game plan is again basically out the window..survival mode/adrelaline takes over and you soon find out what your instincts are made of..Yu have no control of it, so no tough guys/rambos here, it is what it is..
Now, from a females stand point.. i dont have any experience serving with them in combat so it would be hard to make that assumption...but I will say or guess that mentally they would fail because they dont have that 'will to kill' or that aggression and determination to thrust a K-bar into the enemies neck and twist it without remorse.
As for subs I will leave that up to the squids to make that determination.
I could go into this further but I hope you catch my drift..
Semper Fi and god bless
Agree totally.Having said that I'm also afraid men in the military nowdays are far more softer then they were say 15yrs ago and up. Why is it a WW11 vet could see hundreds killed in one day and learn to live with it. Now someone get capped next to you and you get sent home for (PTSD) Post Traumatic Stress Syndrome. The number of these claims are ridiculous,I personally feel society as a whole has become softer
