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Heading to Vegas- What's your Game of choice **UPDATE**
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Heading to Vegas- What's your Game of choice **UPDATE**
Wife and I are heading to Vegas beginning of March. I have taken a liking to Craps the last couple of trips out. Was always a Blackjack or Roulette player due to thier seemingly ease of play.
Talked to some buddies that turned me on to Craps and love it. Very simple game although the table looks confusing. Have won ''Big'' once, $1800, and usually can come out with enough to cover some of the travel expense.
What's your game, betting amount and strategy?
__________________ USCG 100 TON MASTER
Pursuit 2870 CC
Palm Beach 161
1984 Mckee Craft 14'
Sunset on the ICW
Madeira Beach, Fl
Honeymoon Harbor
Bimini
"Many times life gives you the test, before you learn the lesson!"
Last edited by signmansez; 03-09-2010 at 08:19 PM.
I like roulette and blackjack mostly. I'll play a little craps and maybe a little baccarat. I enjoy slot machines from time to time. My strategy is to make winning bets!!
Craps; If I don't have a lot of time on my hands to bone up, place 6 & 8, or all insides and wait 4 rolls, if no 7's, I'm off until next come out. If you gotta roll, take the pass line, and minimum of 3X odds, takes your pass line bet to a miniscule percentage of house edge (but still a house edge)
Pass line only is 1.46% in the houses favor. If you bet $1000 all day long, the odds say you will loss $14.60. Odd bets behind the line will bring that down to about $4.
House edge on place bets is 4%. Lots worse than behind the line, BUT, you can take a place bet down, no contract.
A good game in craps if want to be a don't better is "44 No Ten". Too complicated here, but I can go over if you want some other time. Beware, the dealers are NOT going to like you.
Takes the house edge down to a percent or so if you play flawlessly. Only way to get the odds in your favor is to count. Its not as hard as it sounds. Vegas has gone to a lot of auto shuffles, these obviously are impossible to count.
Also STAY AWAY FROM 6-5 BLACKJACK. These games are EVERYWHERE, and they are a rip off.
I like to gamble on the strip in the mornings and I move downtown in the afternoon and night.
Believe it or not, there is some video poker that put the odds in your favor if you play right. Jacks or better and dueces wild are two of the best ones. These machines can work to your advantage only because you can drop a $20 in them and play for an hour sometimes. This is time well spent as you would otherwise be dropping it a lot faster at the tables.
Dueling Piano's in NYNY. great show if you my age (47) and free.
Mike, you are wrong about how the vig works. In theory, you lose that 1.4% every time. So, your $1000 is gone after about 100 rolls (why not 71 rolls? because you are losing 1.4% of an aver diminishing amount, unless you put new money in to keep the bet at 1000.)
Place bets vary in the vig. The odds of getting a 6 or 8 before a 7 comes up are 6 to 5, but they pay you 7 to 6. So on a 60 dollar bet you get 70 instead of 72, about 3%. Odds of a 5 or 9 are 6 to 4, they pay 7 to 5, or 70 instead of 75 on a 50 dollar play, a 7% vig. On 10 or 4, the vig is 11%. Of course, when you take odds, you get paid the true amount. The best strategy is finding a place that allows you to take big odds on come and place bets, say 10 times like Binions used to offer (there were place is Louisiana that may still offer 100x). Nost places on the strip now use the 3, 4, 5x odds rule from the outside numbers in, which yields the same total pay off on any given come bet. My standard strategy was to make a come out bet, place the 6 and 8, then make successive come bets taking full odds, parlaying if a roll turned green (i.e. I had made money of the roll if a seven came up and cleaned the chips on the table). Craps is a series of completely independent events, so I just let it fly. If I was ahead, I'd place all the numbers, not just 6 and 8 and come down with odds on the come bets. Let 6 and 8 work on the come out too.
Other than that, I don't know much about the game..... other than it is absolutely the most fun when it gets rolling, and the express lane to markersville when it is not. I had a buddy who could get the whole joint rockin' when the table got hot.
I used to be a very skilled blackjack player; I'd play cards first, then blow half my winnings on the bones table, or parlay them up. Now I have a boat that absorbs my "stupid fun" money. On my last two 4 day trips to Vegas on biz, I haven't gambled one cent., nada. A far cry from the fully comped days at the Mirage, Rio or Harvey's in Tahoe. As fun as that was, I'll take boating anytime.
Craps is the way to go.
Bet only the come and pass.
ALWAYS back up with all the odds they offer.
Let it ride when your ahead and the table is hot.
Good Luck!
Mike, you are wrong about how the vig works. In theory, you lose that 1.4% every time. So, your $1000 is gone after about 100 rolls (why not 71 rolls? because you are losing 1.4% of an aver diminishing amount, unless you put new money in to keep the bet at 1000.)
Place bets vary in the vig. The odds of getting a 6 or 8 before a 7 comes up are 6 to 5, but they pay you 7 to 6. So on a 60 dollar bet you get 70 instead of 72, about 3%. Odds of a 5 or 9 are 6 to 4, they pay 7 to 5, or 70 instead of 75 on a 50 dollar play, a 7% vig. On 10 or 4, the vig is 11%. Of course, when you take odds, you get paid the true amount. The best strategy is finding a place that allows you to take big odds on come and place bets, say 10 times like Binions used to offer (there were place is Louisiana that may still offer 100x). Nost places on the strip now use the 3, 4, 5x odds rule from the outside numbers in, which yields the same total pay off on any given come bet. My standard strategy was to make a come out bet, place the 6 and 8, then make successive come bets taking full odds, parlaying if a roll turned green (i.e. I had made money of the roll if a seven came up and cleaned the chips on the table). Craps is a series of completely independent events, so I just let it fly. If I was ahead, I'd place all the numbers, not just 6 and 8 and come down with odds on the come bets. Let 6 and 8 work on the come out too.
Other than that, I don't know much about the game..... other than it is absolutely the most fun when it gets rolling, and the express lane to markersville when it is not. I had a buddy who could get the whole joint rockin' when the table got hot.
I used to be a very skilled blackjack player; I'd play cards first, then blow half my winnings on the bones table, or parlay them up. Now I have a boat that absorbs my "stupid fun" money. On my last two 4 day trips to Vegas on biz, I haven't gambled one cent., nada. A far cry from the fully comped days at the Mirage, Rio or Harvey's in Tahoe. As fun as that was, I'll take boating anytime.
George
Uhhh, well first of all, your partly right, but not fully. I probably should have broken it down more clearly what I was trying to say.
I wasn't talking about betting $1000, I was talking about a session bankroll of $1000.00. Assuming your a $5 bettor, that's all.
The reason some people win and some people lose with a vig of 1.41% of every roll is because of a math phenomenon called "standard deviation". If you flip a coin 100 times, theoretically it will be heads 50% and tails 50% but this rarely happens. More often its closer to 45% to 55%. This is why some folks are winning and some folks are losing any given game.
Well, that and the fact that most people are completely horrible at playing. Stay away from the props in front of the stickman. They will eat you up with vigs.
First the Place bets.
placing the 6&8 is a vig of 1.52% payoff of 7 to 6
placing the 5&9 is a vig of 4.00% payoff of 7 to 5
placing the 4&10 a vig of 6.66% payoff of 9 to 5
The big draw for me on place bets is that you can TAKE THEM DOWN. 3 words that will save you tons at the craps table, but piss off everyone that would like to play with your money.
But I would say this is getting a little deep
If you Place $60 the payout as you say is $70 (the true odds as you correctly pointed out is 6 to 5) but they pay 7 to 6..
Multiple come bets with maximum odds gives you the best vig at the craps table, as you correctly pointed out.
I personally think beginning craps should start out with place bets so you don't get caught up in the hooplah of the game. I guess in a nut shell that's what I was trying to say, but I suck at teaching at 4:00AM
I know there are people reading this and scratching their heads because it sounds very confusing. I play the game and what you all wrote sounds like Chinese to me!
I do understand what you are saying after deciphering it.
Here is the basic strategy that I have been following. This is what was told to me a few trips ago and it has worked out pretty well for me.
As mentioned, the amazing thing about craps is the importance of a good vibe at the table. I have been at the tables when the dealers were stiff and business like and they are very intimidating. These tables tend to clear out quickly.
The tables where everyone is yelling and screaming and the dealers are having fun are really worth the price of admission! If you don't know the game at all take a casino lesson. They all offer them for free, of course.
You can practice for FREE at www.bodog.com , it is an online gaming site with a complete catalog of FREE games to play.
Mike what do you think of the ''system'' below. Is there something I should be avoiding here or adding to my play. Thanks for the great info!
I play with a bit higher amounts than this but here it is:
Drop $100 on the table, ask the dealer for $5 chips and leave two of them on the pass line.
>Step 2 The shooter is "coming out" for a point on their first roll of the dice. This is essentially the only roll where craps (2, 3 or 12) is bad and you lose your $10. Conversely, this is also the only time a 7 is good and you win. Any number between 4 and 10 becomes the point. Your $10 pass line is now betting the point comes up again on a subsequent roll before a 7 does. "7 out" ends the game and all bets are lost. Hitting the point starts the game over after each pass line better is paid.
>Step 3 Payouts for a point being hit vary based on statistics a number will be rolled again. Dice summing to 4 or 10 pays 2-1, 5 or 9 pays 3-2 and a 6 or 8 pays 6-5. One imperative piece to playing the game right is placing odds. Odds are additional moneys (commonly allowed up to 5 times the orginal) placed on a bet, however, they pay double. For example, the point is 8 and you have $10 on it (the pass line). You now lay another $20 odds. If the 8 hits before the 7 you get $10 * 6/5 = $12 for your original bet and $20 * 6/5 * 2 = $48 for your $10 odds bet.
Step 4 After a point is established and odds placed you now want to lay another $10 bet on the come line. A come bet works the same way as the pass line and is basically an opportunity to bet additonal numbers. The next roll by the shooter creates this secondary target number. If at any time that number is rolled again before a 7 you get paid. Odds placed on come bets also pay double which is the beauty of this system.
>Step 5 The goal is work up to having money on three numbers. At that point the house's advantage is the lowest the casino can offer. You want a pass line bet going for the original number and two come bets on other numbers. You're in a good spot knowing if any of three numbers hits on any roll you get paid. If the point hits all come bets sit idle while the shooter comes out for another point. If a come bet hits you would get paid and immediately lay another come bet for that third number again.
>Step 6 Cheer the shooter hits your numbers as many times as possible before that nasty 7 comes along. A good rule of thumb is hitting two numbers for any given shooter is breaking even or slightly better.
__________________ USCG 100 TON MASTER
Pursuit 2870 CC
Palm Beach 161
1984 Mckee Craft 14'
Sunset on the ICW
Madeira Beach, Fl
Honeymoon Harbor
Bimini
"Many times life gives you the test, before you learn the lesson!"
Hey, it sounds like you got the standard game going on.
I'm sorry, I'm afraid I made a complete cluster f@#CK of your thread with my first post Serves me right for posting with no sleep, but thats how you'll be playing in Vegas right
As far as your system, with a good run of shooters you can make a few bucks, but I would go in with low expectations and make sure your playing with "safe" money. There's nothing worse than playing with "scared" money. It forces you to make bad decisions if your worried about losing it.
Keep in mind that having 3 numbers in play (if your lucky enough to get that far) you'll have $30 on pass/come bets and assuming 2x odds thats another $60 minimum, depending on the numbers,
If that 7 shows, almost a $100 bill down. Ofcourse this is assuming you don't get burned on your come bets by the 2,3 or 12!
Once you got 3 numbers going and full odds
I would place the six and eight with your system as well, but obviously only if the six or eight is not your point in any of the series. You don't want to double up with a place bet because your getting better odds behind the line.
Oh, its a fickle game. If anyone can walk away from any of these games saying they lost but had fun, I would suggest a different location for vacation and re-evaluation of life in general
Hey, it sounds like you got the standard game going on.
I'm sorry, I'm afraid I made a complete cluster f@#CK of your thread with my first post Serves me right for posting with no sleep, but thats how you'll be playing in Vegas right
As far as your system, with a good run of shooters you can make a few bucks, but I would go in with low expectations and make sure your playing with "safe" money. There's nothing worse than playing with "scared" money. It forces you to make bad decisions if your worried about losing it.
Keep in mind that having 3 numbers in play (if your lucky enough to get that far) you'll have $30 on pass/come bets and assuming 2x odds thats another $60 minimum, depending on the numbers,
If that 7 shows, almost a $100 bill down. Ofcourse this is assuming you don't get burned on your come bets by the 2,3 or 12!
Once you got 3 numbers going and full odds
I would place the six and eight with your system as well, but obviously only if the six or eight is not your point in any of the series. You don't want to double up with a place bet because your getting better odds behind the line.
Oh, its a fickle game. If anyone can walk away from any of these games saying they lost but had fun, I would suggest a different location for vacation and re-evaluation of life in general
What are the odds if I just ''buy'' the numbers instead waiting fir them to show up on the ''come''?
__________________ USCG 100 TON MASTER
Pursuit 2870 CC
Palm Beach 161
1984 Mckee Craft 14'
Sunset on the ICW
Madeira Beach, Fl
Honeymoon Harbor
Bimini
"Many times life gives you the test, before you learn the lesson!"
What are the odds if I just ''buy'' the numbers instead waiting fir them to show up on the ''come''?
you can buy any number at even odds, minus a 5% vig.
I've never bought a number, but I have "bought a "No 4 or No 10" on occasion when playing a "don't" system. You basically toss the dealer the vig and he keeps it regardless of whether it comes or not, If I remember correctly, may have to check on that one.
4 an 10 are the only numbers worth buying if you are betting larger amounts. Assuming you are playing the 3x (4&10) 4x(5&9) 5x(6&8) odds so prevalent now, a place bet pays exactly the same as a come bet with full odds. So if your objective is to have that bet in play, go ahead and get it out there. When I had a bankroll working, that's exactly what I'd do.
Mike, you still have your vig % wrong. Do the math! The vig is how much they short you from what the true odds are. You are owed $72 for your $60 "8" place bet; they only give you $70. You have been shorted $2 or 2.8% of the $72 you had coming under an "even" game.
There are any number of ways to manage your money. A lot has to do with how long you want to try and play. Since each roll is unique event, it doesn't matter, advantage-wise. Use a system that is fun for you. The most important skill of all is knowing when to walk away.
4 an 10 are the only numbers worth buying if you are betting larger amounts. Assuming you are playing the 3x (4&10) 4x(5&9) 5x(6&8) odds so prevalent now, a place bet pays exactly the same as a come bet with full odds. So if your objective is to have that bet in play, go ahead and get it out there. When I had a bankroll working, that's exactly what I'd do.
Mike, you still have your vig % wrong. Do the math! The vig is how much they short you from what the true odds are. You are owed $72 for your $60 "8" place bet; they only give you $70. You have been shorted $2 or 2.8% of the $72 you had coming under an "even" game.
There are any number of ways to manage your money. A lot has to do with how long you want to try and play. Since each roll is unique event, it doesn't matter, advantage-wise. Use a system that is fun for you. The most important skill of all is knowing when to walk away.
So am I better off to make the place bet on a number rather then risk losing the come bet?
__________________ USCG 100 TON MASTER
Pursuit 2870 CC
Palm Beach 161
1984 Mckee Craft 14'
Sunset on the ICW
Madeira Beach, Fl
Honeymoon Harbor
Bimini
"Many times life gives you the test, before you learn the lesson!"
Back to the OP...I think craps is the best...usually play 6 & 8 with a few "Field" bets until a good shooter shows up and gets hot...then you have to diversify to make that quick killing...you can win a lot quickly and also lose a lot quickly...for some reason I think women make the best shooters...always have good luck with them...biggest pet peeve is the idiots that can't keep their arms & hands away from the playing area...never fails shooter tosses the die hits the goobers hand and 7's out....GL
"So am I better off to make the place bet on a number rather then risk losing the come bet?"
Well, if you all you want is to bet on that particular number, then yes. But when you bet the come, you get to win if a 7 or 11 comes out on the first roll (8 out of 36 chances) or lose on craps (4 chances). And if any other number comes up, then you have the chance to win on that. After the come-out roll, you are going to lose on 7 either way. There have been times when, just to mix things up a bit, I did nothing but bet all the place bets right from the get go, with no frontline bet. My ultimate goal is typically to have all those working anyway, so why not just cut to the chase? But 80% of the time I'll have a traditional come-out bet, just to be a more direct member of the table community. The hearty social aspect of craps is to me the funnest part; nothin' better in a casino than a rowdy bones table. I've had people walk up to me 5 years later from an epic roll and buy me a drink.. or ask me how my buddy with the "fever" was doing.
I've dabbled slightly with craps but not at brick and mortor casinos... I've a good friend who always plays craps and always plays the "dark side" as he calls it. Claims it's the only way to play. However, real poker, Texas Hold-em, Omaha and tourniments , is the only only way to go for me. Man to man with only marginil "luck" involved. If only I could play it for a living......
I used to play blackjack but I have switched to 3 card poker. Unlike regular poker you play against the dealer, and different hands pay odds. I caught 2 straightl flushes on a cruise recently. Each payed 40:1 so my $10 bet became $400. Blackjack is nice but you can only double your money. A game where you can get high odds really adds to the excitement.
I play craps/Blackjack/Poker and mix in Let it ride for fun.
By far my favorite is Craps. My favorite places to play are Bellagio and Casino Royale, totally differant ends of the spectrum. Casino Royal offers 100x odds and can be a great atmosphere, drinks come fast. Sights at the Bellagio can't be beat!!!
My strategy is to play table minimum on the pass line, If a table is 5x odds, I take 5x odds on the 6 and 8, 4x odds on the 5 and 9, adn 3x odds on the 4 and 10. I always place the 6 and 8, and as I accumulate chips I place the 5 and 9. You have to press your place bets it you want to win chips quickly on a hot shooter. The more I am up the harder I usually press, if I am just getting to a table I will press with the house money, on an individual bet. For example if the point is 5 and I place the 6 and 8 for $12 each. If the shooter rolls a 6, I take the $14 payout, leave the 12. I am up $2 on the 6. Next roll is a 6 I press it up to $24 and take $2. Now I am up $4 on the 6. Now you could just keep taking $28 off the table each time a 6 is rolled. or keep pressing 1 unit($12) or sometimes I will go 2 units to ($24). Just depends on how I am feeling shooter etc, Last time I was out there on a hot shooter had the place bets on the 6 and 8 up to $150 and was taking $175 off everytime one of the numbers was rolled. Won about $2500 on that session on a starting buy in of $100. My buddy plays with alot more $$ and is very aggressive he walked with $5500.
Remember the Bigger the number on the table the worse the odds. Another good thing to remember is you can take most of your bets down at any time.
__________________ 2640 Glacier bay twin 150 suzuki's
Heading to Vegas- What's your Game of choice **UPDATE** 
(the true odds as you correctly pointed out is 6 to 5) but they pay 7 to 6..
Serves me right for posting with no sleep, but thats how you'll be playing in Vegas right
almost a $100 bill down. Ofcourse this is assuming you don't get burned on your come bets by the 2,3 or 12! 
