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Random Quote: The cruise liner QE2 moves only six inches for each gallon of diesel that it burns.
Careful bro. These are my brothers and my Father sees all! Where is your soul headed? Might want to thank about it.....God gives the choice, dosen't beg....
Whats your point? You think because someone is associated with a church that they should automatically be trusted? Bullflop, they are in business to make money just like any other. They may have good intentions for the money, but the church still wants their money. I could give a rats ass about your opinion, and your ideas of soul saving. Its you preachy types I find to be the most dishonest, I have always found that those that pray the loudest usually mean it the least. Besides being a good Christian, didnt you know that Christ said its not your place to judge. So take your words of hypocrisy, and piss off!
As for the OP, My Gal above has given very good advice. Talk to the pastor and see if they cant help raise some funds or if something may be done. You may find the GC has already been paid and he's the one holding out.
Need to arrange a meeting with the Pastor and Trustees to sort through the issues. Bottom line, the trustees are responsible for debt of the Church reguardless of what kind of arrangments were made. I believe they will come through for you.
But of course not responsible personally.
I'm in the debt collection business. AND - I can tell you that our wonderful system of judges and politicians (being sarcastic) loves debtors. So ... they are VERY VERY sympathetic towards the church who owes $40k.
Anything the sub does to try to get his money directly from the church might get the sub in legal trouble because the only one who probably owes him the money is the GC.
Our system is purposely setup so that if your debt is not secured that the likelihood of getting paid by somebody who does not want to pay is slim and any attempt to get aggressive with forcing payment will usually backfire.
That said, the sub probably can demand payment from the GC (based on their agreement be it written or verbal). The GC probably does not like getting sued and might have something to lose in this regard ... so the GC might be willing to work something out. Even $5k per month till paid in full will help get the sub back on his feet eventually.
I agree completely that if you cannot afford to lose the money then you cannot extend the credit. 1/3, 1/3, 1/3 is a great strategy.
Sorry to hear the bad news and best wishes to the sub who deserves his money.
__________________
1984 Bertram 54 Big Buddy
1981 Bertram 28 Third Strike II
Northport, ME
Chesapeake Bay, MD
[quote=Bob's Cay;2732639]Put them on notice that you plan to repossess any HVAC equipment. With spring and summer coming up it will be hotter than Hades in that church.
Might work as a bluff; but in most places, I cannot speak to Alabama, you cannot self-help repossess immovables. Once the HVAC is installed it becomes part of the building and cannot be self-help repossessed. Doing something like pulling the compressors will only cause the poor guy more problems. Maybe some THT legal experts can weigh in on this.
That was his first mistake, someone being associated with a church means nothing. Look at Falwell, Baker, and the countless other con artists that were associated with churchs.
Don't forget the whore mongering Jimmy Swaggert, you know he's back on tv. It's been half a generation and he evidently has new followers that were too young when he first dipped his dog where it should not have been.
Put them on notice that you plan to repossess any HVAC equipment. With spring and summer coming up it will be hotter than Hades in that church.
Might work as a bluff; but in most places, I cannot speak to Alabama, you cannot self-help repossess immovables. Once the HVAC is installed it becomes part of the building and cannot be self-help repossessed. Doing something like pulling the compressors will only cause the poor guy more problems. Maybe some THT legal experts can weigh in on this.
I agree, pretty much same anywhere you go if you pull that it is jail time for theft
From what I have read his deal is actually with the GC and like most GS's they will/do not pay untl they are payed.
Sad part of construction business and only actual recourse I see is with GC if that is who he made a deal with.
You live and learn but next time if you are not getting draws STOP DEAD in YOUR TRACKS.
Only two things will slow down a construction job 1- is weather 2-MONEY-people ain't getting paid
__________________ 210 CC Sea Pro
Yamaha 200 4 Stroke
Dodge Ram 1500 4x4 HEMI
Don't no if this is possible but, find out how many sit on the board of directors and sue individually in small claims court.
Not sure if it's possible though.
I won't get into woulda shouda stuff as per your request.
Can't sue anybody personally for a debt that was not incurred or guaranteed personally. Guaranteed personally means a paragraph in the agreement titled "Guarantor" and would generally state "I .... agree to be personally responsible ....."
__________________
1984 Bertram 54 Big Buddy
1981 Bertram 28 Third Strike II
Northport, ME
Chesapeake Bay, MD
We had a similar problem as a major sub on a church. They ran out of money. The first thing I would do is send a notice of intent to lien the property to the church and the GC. That may motivate them. If that does not produce results then file the lien.
You cannot get blood from a rock. I would try to have a meeting with the church officials to work out a payment plan. What we ended up doing was convert the outstanding balance to a note with monthly payments.
__________________ Stratos 2500 wa
Twin 225 Johnsons
What is that sucking sound?
If he can't sue the deacons and pastor, then looks like his options are few. Dance with the bankers over foreclosure while dancing with the GC about making some kind of partial payment.
I wonder what kind of bank would give him a bridge loan by using that Receivable as collateral?
__________________ Rick
Alabama's Gulf Coast
Chaparral 240 Signature (Sold)
I am an HVAC contractor, started the business 20 years ago. Been in the trade 32 years. Also own an insulation business. Used to be partners in a plumbing business and a controls business.
I was a trustee at two churches and my wife is a minister.
I guess I can offer insight from both sides.
First, contact the head trustee, the minister, the GC and the insurance adjuster. Try to set up a meeting with everyone present and find out where the holdup is. I have had GCs that got paid who held up on me. Ask if everyone is in agreement the work is completed. I would address any quality/ warranty issues and make a list and committ to completion. Now you have completed your role in the transaction.That being said I would explain that everyone else has a role in the payment process and there is no warranty until that is addressed. Maybe a partial payment hoding back 15%, due upon completion of the list.
The adjuster doesn't want to piss off the church, the church doesn't want to be seen as deadbeats and the GC doesn't want to go to court. By bringing this out in the open let your intentions be known that you expect to be paid for a quality job. You will pursue this with your attoney immediately after the meeting. Then I would hand each person a letter from my attonery showing them i mean it. I would call each person the next day and follow up. To me it doesn't matter who is responsible for paying me directly. They all have something they wish to avoid. The others will hopefully pressure the holdup person to resolve it so thay won't have to deal with it. Stop in and see people in person every couple of days being firm but fair. Leave phone messages. 9 times out of 10 it will be resolved as long as they see you are professional, have completed the work and sending the message YOU ARE NOT GOING AWAY. If these are reputible people if will be resolved. If need be, someone needs to take out a note to pay you. If the church needed the work regardless of the Insurance settlement, could they take out a loan? Why exactly is the insurance company denaying the claim? Can this be addressed? Finally, what if everyone shared the burden a bit? You drop your price 10%, the Church, Ins. Co. and GC split the bill somehow? (Save this one as a last ditch effort).
That 1 out of 10 is the hard one. Sounds like the GC is the one on the hook to pay. You can file a lien (in Ct. a mechanic's lien must be done within 90 days of the last invice for the project) and now the church will pressure the GC to resolve. Without a written contract your friend can only hope the attention will solve this. No disrespect but this is exactly why I generally stay away from GCs. I have 2 or 3 I hand selected, the rest I stay away from. I work directly for the building owner. Project Managers are even worse.
Good Luck.
I would give the church one of two options. Figure out a way to pay on or before xyz date or go take possession of the HVAC equipment and the labor will be a lesson in life. I had a business in NW Alabama and churches were built and going out of business all the time. I have a feeling you and your friend already know this. I am not making any claim if this particular organization is legitimate or not. If you were a sub-contractor you may have a claim against the GC depending upon the law of your state.
Years ago I used to do PC/Server repair/installs etc on a contract basis--and one of the fist things i learned was to stay away from churches. They'll be the first to call when something breaks, but the last who want to pay for getting something done. When you send them a bill they start with the guilt trip thing, then the charitable deduction thing, then finally if they do pay it, they want you to reduce your rates. It wasn't worth the hassle.
How is the church's insurance company going to continue to cover the church? If repairs had to be made then the Ins. Company should pay the claim. I would threaten legal action on everybody I could. If that doesn't work, I would ruin everyone who had a part in screwing me.
So I'm guessing you know the details of the claim and why it is covered by ins?
Yes...
At the start of this thread I was thinking maybe we didn't have all the information. Then well, we didn't and the sub contr. angle came in. You still probably don't know the whole story.
__________________ 1st Cav Div Air Assault Infantry RVN
-Can Do........ and .......Carry On -
I am an HVAC contractor, started the business 20 years ago. Been in the trade 32 years. Also own an insulation business. Used to be partners in a plumbing business and a controls business.
I was a trustee at two churches and my wife is a minister.
I guess I can offer insight from both sides.
First, contact the head trustee, the minister, the GC and the insurance adjuster. Try to set up a meeting with everyone present and find out where the holdup is. I have had GCs that got paid who held up on me. Ask if everyone is in agreement the work is completed. I would address any quality/ warranty issues and make a list and committ to completion. Now you have completed your role in the transaction.That being said I would explain that everyone else has a role in the payment process and there is no warranty until that is addressed. Maybe a partial payment hoding back 15%, due upon completion of the list.
The adjuster doesn't want to piss off the church, the church doesn't want to be seen as deadbeats and the GC doesn't want to go to court. By bringing this out in the open let your intentions be known that you expect to be paid for a quality job. You will pursue this with your attoney immediately after the meeting. Then I would hand each person a letter from my attonery showing them i mean it. I would call each person the next day and follow up. To me it doesn't matter who is responsible for paying me directly. They all have something they wish to avoid. The others will hopefully pressure the holdup person to resolve it so thay won't have to deal with it. Stop in and see people in person every couple of days being firm but fair. Leave phone messages. 9 times out of 10 it will be resolved as long as they see you are professional, have completed the work and sending the message YOU ARE NOT GOING AWAY. If these are reputible people if will be resolved. If need be, someone needs to take out a note to pay you. If the church needed the work regardless of the Insurance settlement, could they take out a loan? Why exactly is the insurance company denaying the claim? Can this be addressed? Finally, what if everyone shared the burden a bit? You drop your price 10%, the Church, Ins. Co. and GC split the bill somehow? (Save this one as a last ditch effort).
That 1 out of 10 is the hard one. Sounds like the GC is the one on the hook to pay. You can file a lien (in Ct. a mechanic's lien must be done within 90 days of the last invice for the project) and now the church will pressure the GC to resolve. Without a written contract your friend can only hope the attention will solve this. No disrespect but this is exactly why I generally stay away from GCs. I have 2 or 3 I hand selected, the rest I stay away from. I work directly for the building owner. Project Managers are even worse.
Good Luck.
This seems like the best course of action. Can a lien be filed by the sub on the church even though the sub was hired by the GC?
Mike
__________________
1984 Bertram 54 Big Buddy
1981 Bertram 28 Third Strike II
Northport, ME
Chesapeake Bay, MD
So ... they are VERY VERY sympathetic towards the church who owes $40k.
1st Cav Div Air Assault Infantry RVN
