Guestimate on new furnace price / Suggestions on old furnace - The Hull Truth

Kamper · 11-08-2009, 07:26 PM

My old furnace is currently in apparently good running order but it is somewhere between 20-50 years old. My current economical outlook may be about to turn rosy again so I may be able to redirect my "war chest."

My house is 24X26 feet. The main floor is 4 small rooms and a bathroom (no heat vent in there). Attic is single open space, closed off. Celler is 3 rooms. One is roughly 16X24 with heat out of one of the carrier tubes and is unfinished. Next is 10X16 and is semi-finished and has a heat vent. Final room is the laundry room 8X15, can have heat if I unblock the end of that tube.

I am currently using a hot air system. The plate reads:
No. 65 OIL ECONOMY
NET B.T.U. REGISTER RATING 65,000
INTERNATIONAL
HEATER COMPANY
UTICA, NEW YORK, U.S.A.

It has been serviced and had repairs by a qualified technician. The efficiency rating is 82.5% as of 8/26/02. I have done my own cleaning periodically. Burner unit has been mostly rebuilt since I moved in, in summer of '01.

The previous owner's tenant may have mucked with the limit and fan control settings but I've fiddled with them so it's ok. I have no manual.

I'd like to hear advice from any HVAC person or feedback from somebody with similiar requirements or a system with similiar spec.s. I am researching towards replacing the system with a more recent product but any advice on my present antique is welcome also.

Thanks gang!

Reel Boobs · 11-08-2009, 08:43 PM

Are you sure your house is only 624 square feet above grade? That would be very small for a detached SFR.

On the original question, I do not know anything about oil furnaces. We use gas here in the south. I am sure your furnaces are more expensive, but last much longer.

Garett · 11-09-2009, 03:08 AM

Dan it sounds like it's a 2 bedroom (bdr) war time home (wth) w/ a full basement ....which is fine, I used to own a 3 bdr wth w/ sizable extension and full basement; they can be very easy homes/ properties to maintain.

Either way, Kamper, how's the insulation in the attic....who much and what kind? Have you updated the windows or are they still the single pane wooden windows? Are the entrance doors still original....with a hundred different colours of paint on them? Do you have any idea what type of insulation there is in the walls....has that been updated? And the big question, how much longer do you see yourself living there?

With my previously owned 3 bdr wth I had updated everything except the furnace....forced air "gas" with an efficiency rating of around the 82% mark. Dad's in a 1400 sq. ft. bungalow with force air oil and he's running around the 82% efficiency rating as well. It boils down to how long do you feel you are going to live there? I know up here a 94 - 96% efficiency rated forced air gas furnace is between the 4 - 6.5K mark.......you've got to live there a long time to make up that money! IMHO it doesn’t make a lot of economical sense to update the furnace when all that heat is going out the windows/ walls and attic.

Kamper · 11-09-2009, 05:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reel Boobs

... only 624 square feet above grade? That would be very small for a detached SFR. ...

You sound lke my room-mate. I told her don't worry, if I need more space I'll kick you out! Fortunatly for me she has a sense of humor and I only needed three stitches. External dimensions - 24X26. It was built in '52 as a summer camp and upgraded.
__

Garrett, all good points. Yes the attic is insulated with 8 inches blown fluffy gray stuff that I coverred over with sub-floor material to stabilise it. I block the upwind wall vent during the winter, the sofits have been sufficient. The walls have F/G insulation, not as much as I'd like but as much as they will hold. Two seasons back I put foam insulation panels in all the (double pane) windows to restrict the exposure. This had a noticable benefit on fuel consumption and for a $50 investment I probably saved $200 that year when fuel as $3.50/gal. I keep them in year round to save on a/c too (they are prettied up with contact paper).

I should have mentionned that I could go with natural gas because I have that for my clothes dryer and water heater. For the most part though, gas here has been the same or more costly than oil. I won't go electric because we are paying for "stranded costs" of an aborted 2nd reactor at the Seabrook nuke plant. Nobody here uses electric as a primary heat source in a primary residence.

I've seen notes regarding cost Vs investment comparing economy to high efficiency furnaces. I do hope to be here a long time and with fuel prices likely to trend back up, the higher efficiency furnace would be a good selling point if/when I put the place on the market. With the up-front price difference though I could probably heat for several years on that money.

Under the principle that everything breaks sooner or later, and with an older unit later will come sooner, I am considerring this investment while I have the resources. My research has not turned up enough useful data to get a feel for actual purchase prices. That is why I am asking here. I figure somebody must do this for a living or had the work done recently.

I appreciate the feedback and any additional suggestions!

Garett · 11-09-2009, 05:57 AM

I'm only throwing this one up in the air because they are quite popular around here....
http://www.heatmasterss.com/ is this an option?

Kamper · 11-09-2009, 07:14 AM

We heated with wood when I was a kid. If I had kids to get up and fill the wood box and stoke the furnace I'd consider it. lol. Seriously though, my area is not that rural and the neighbors would raise a stink over the smoke that sort of thing causes. I'll be focusing on oil or gas for now.

Thanks anyway.

Garett · 11-09-2009, 08:10 AM

Kamper, I don't know if you can get a hold of Jim - "tinmarine" for he's been pretty quite around here lately. I know he's in the business and has always been very straight up.

gf · 11-09-2009, 08:59 AM

Kamper, so if I read this correctly, you have a oil fired forced hot air furnace with just one air handler and one zone? It's a pretty simple job to just replace the furnace on a system like that.

My HVAC contacts are all in MA but I work in the "Thornton's Ferry" area and I can ask around for some referrals.

I have a 4 zone oil fired forced hot water system. My boiler is over 50 years old, although the burner is newer. A full replacement for me is around $5000 and I just can't justify it at current heating oil prices.

I use about 1200 gallons a year, so if the new system improves my efficiency by 10% the payback is over 16 years at $2.50 per gallon. If heating oil ever goes up over $4.00 I would probably do it. Alternatively, if the gas company wants to come down my street, I might investigate that.

Several of the guys I work with here in NH use propane for their heat, I'm not sure how that compares to oil or natural gas so you may want to reseach that too.

SeaJay · 11-09-2009, 10:41 AM

Put the money in the bank and keep it there until the current furnace breaks.

Kamper · 11-09-2009, 10:56 AM

gf: Yup. Plain and simple. Heat for Dummies. I wouldn't want propane since I have natural gas. That would be too much additional infrastructure. Any info you can casually work up would be appreciated but don't let anyone work up a sweat just yet. lol. For me this is a pre-planning exercise at the moment.

--

SeaJay: That's a valid strategy too. Money spent too soon means some value is wasted. Usually though, when I have extra money some surprise need arises to consume it. I am thinking of trying to beat fate on this. A small house like this can almost be heated with space heaters...

nautiduck · 11-09-2009, 04:51 PM

Kamper are you looking to have the unit replaced or are you looking to replace it yourself? In other words are you capable of making all the necessary connections yourself? Such as the ducting, gas or oil lines. The answers to those questions can make a world of difference. For instance my brother needed his oil fed boiler replaced, it was a four zone system I dont remember the BTU output but I think it was around 100 to 120k, living in Winchester VA, he was quoted $6500 to replace it. Having a friend in the HVAC business he got me the boiler at cost. I went and put in the exact same boiler quoted for him at a cost of $1600 plus a couple of hundred because I rebuilt the distribution manifold and some other misc parts.

Kamper · 11-09-2009, 05:24 PM

I'm not ruling anything out at this point. I'd like to get hardware prices but if anybody has both numbers like you provided, that would be appreciated too. I'm sure that I could swap out a unit of similiar simplicity to my current system but if installation costs were reasonable I might pay for the peace of mind.

PF-88 · 11-09-2009, 05:29 PM

What goes in a hot air furnace is the heat exchanger and till that goes and starts putting soot into your air it is not economicaly feasable to change it. That's what happened to me 8 years ago when my 30 year old oil ( no gas on street )furnace exchanger went. I HATED the on / off blast of hot air so I switched my system to Hydro-air, I now have a boiler piped into the hot water coil of a air handler, and if you have centeral a/c the a/c A coil is below the hot water coil instead of on top of the heat exchanger in a furnace were it wont drip on it and rot it out. The 140 degree water puts out a much more comfortable steady heat than a furnace and I was able to put in a inderect hot water heater as a second zone priority and get rid of my electric hot water heater for a huge savings. did a heat loss calculation on my home and sized my boiler accordingly so it is not oversized, the gun nozzle is only .60. Also add a Becket heat manger to the boiler controls for a added 15% more efficency. As mentioned I do not have gas and the new modulating gas furnaces are very efficent and less expensive than a hydro-air system, I just spent the extra bucks for a more comfortable, effecient system.

nautiduck · 11-10-2009, 08:22 AM

Kamper if you need to pinch pennies and who doesnt these days go to your local trade school or comm college that teaches HVAC. Ask the teacher who in the class or past classes he would recomend some of these guys are going out on their own and generally are alot lower on install prices. I have a guy here that does all of our HVAC work on our rentals. Young kid new business but really knows his stuff, his labor quotes are half that of the larger more established companies. He also doesnt charge any markup on materials which most double their cost. It benefits both of us I get good work inexpensively and Ive given him over 50 referrals so far with more to come. Hes so happy with the referrals that half the time he doesnt charge me for the little crap from the renters.

Kamper · 11-12-2009, 06:05 PM

Thanks guys! It's all helpful.