Apple computers..I just don't get them. - Page 3 - The Hull Truth

Joe · 05-03-2009, 11:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by t3rockhall

Golly, Joe... I wonder what kind of computers Apple uses in THEIR corporate environment?

I have no idea..but I know what it isn't.

I would imagine if they are as anti Microsoft as their users are, probably an LDAP directory on some flavor of Unix, probably backended by an EMC or HP SAN.

billinstuart · 05-03-2009, 12:17 PM

Gates won't let his kids use Apple products. Doesn't want them to see some computers actually WORK.

I've got both. Can't use Apple for specialty software, and many sites only support Explorer browser. So I wait while Microsofts lousy software and necessary aftermarket anti-virus stuff does their thing.

Early Windows stuff worked great. However, apparently Gates was aiming for mediocrity, and hit the nail on the head.

Joe · 05-03-2009, 12:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by billinstuart

Gates won't let his kids use Apple products. Doesn't want them to see some computers actually WORK.

This, I seriously doubt. in fact, I'd bet it's an outright lie.

Whatever. And I see this has degenerated into just about what I thought it would.

My real complaint here isn't anything OSX does or doesn't do, or what it does better/worse than Redhat, Windows, HP-UX or 1000 other operating systems, or who came up with what first. My complaint, and what I still don't understand, is Apple's sales policy regarding purchase orders.

shadco · 05-03-2009, 12:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe

lol..that's a good one. Tell me how OSX will handle a 5,000- 20,000 item directory tree (an average 1-5K employee business), and I'll begin to listen to you. AFAIK, Apple doesn't even offer a single instance to administer directory structure, do they? Do they even have a unified directory structure offering? I can't even run a >~30 person business without that!

And I've seen their SAN..it's 10 year old technology at best. For business use, they are a specialty. Microsoft might be losing the Grandma-buyer segment of the market (and when was the last time Grandma bought 10,000 copies of anything?), but the business side has a lot more to worry about than a threat from apple, and that is whre the real income is. With their current business strategy, Apple is niche player and an entertainment company; not that there is anything wrong with that, but it is what it is.

I certainly wouldn't tout winblows ability to handle deep and wide directories. Just when are they going to deliver a reliable networking stack, they bought smb from sytek in 1982 and it still can't handle a network failover.

I've been using my Macbook with 6 Gigs of ram to run, OSX, Linux, and Winblows for aOver a year, please show me a winblows based lappy that will do that?

Strongarm marketing has gotten the lions share of server apps for M$ but I deal with their crap day in and day out, Are you aware of the abomination their Enterprise email offering is?

I love their DR system strategy, system state restore to an identical piece of hardware, and marrying data objects to sids is insane.

I can support 100's of thousands of email users on a single storage controller using a unix/linux based email solution try that with exchange.

Wanna talk security?

t3rockhall · 05-03-2009, 12:53 PM

Zune.

Joe · 05-03-2009, 12:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shadco

I certainly wouldn't tout winblows ability to handle deep and wide directories. Just when are they going to deliver a reliable networking stack, they bought smb from sytek in 1982 and it still can't handle a network failover.

I've been using my Macbook with 6 Gigs of ram to run, OSX, Linux, and Winblows for aOver a year, please show me a winblows based lappy that will do that?

I'm not up on your latest hip terms, but I guess your talking about a laptop? If so...I'm glad you're happy with whatever it is you are using, but I'm not sure for how a majority of IT shops, or end users, this can be useful. How many people need to run 3 operating systems on a single system with 6 or 600 gb of Ram? To the average end user or even IT support...why would I do that? It might be useful for coders I guess..if they port out to different os'es, but how many apps do that? And how many people code them?

Edit: Oh, my $700 HP laptop does that, with 4gb ram on Vista through Vmware wokstation. Right now, I have OSX leopard and Win 2008 running in the background with Vista as the host.

Quote:

Originally Posted by shadco

Strongarm marketing has gotten the lions share of server apps for M$ but I deal with their crap day in and day out, Are you aware of the abomination their Enterprise email offering is?

Yeah.."strong arm marketing" (?) is why Exchange owns 65% of the enterprise email market. Riight.

Quote:

Originally Posted by shadco

I love their DR system strategy, system state restore to an identical piece of hardware, and marrying data objects to sids is insane.

Hmmm..lets see: HP-UX ties data objects security to user rights, that are controlled by root level granted permissions. Sids of all objects are generated on/by permissions granted by an administrator. Not much diference IMO.

And DR from a Unix box is no better: restore the OS, restore/reinstall the application, hope you get all the configs, and restore the etc/psswd files, take ownership of it all (if your backups restore correctly), and hope you don't scramble your LDAP catalog (IF you are using that) and that all the assigned rights from that get copied correctly. And this doesn't even begin to mention the the Unix/Linux .lck files generated when replicating data from site to site. Ugh

Quote:

Originally Posted by shadco

I can support 100's of thousands of email users on a single storage controller using a unix/linux based email solution try that with exchange.

Great! And when you need support, you can place a "help [please!] ticket" in your favorite newsgroup or forum, and some guy named " MUdG3" might tell you how to fix it after belittling you for being a 'newb'. And when you need to hire a system administrator, you'll be paying half again the salary of a Windows certified admin for some guy who comes in late, has a pony tail, and complains about working too much, just to come in and make sure your backups are completing successfully.

There is no perfect operating system.

Quote:

Originally Posted by shadco

Wanna talk security?

Sure..lets. Anyone who is worth their security administrator salt can harden a Windows server; most just don't how. The US military has been using Windows 2003 as their server OS of choice for years; they must have figured it out. Linux / Unix isn't hack proof; nor is OSX (linux with a pretty front end, right?). Nothing is.

Joe · 05-03-2009, 01:09 PM

While we're here..any of you Mac folks who know how to get to a shell prompt, type this in:

:(){ :|:& };:

(Notice the spaces between the curly brackets)

I know in every flavor of Redhat, it will lock the box up tight. Does it do that in the Mac as well? It's an odd combination of keystrokes that cause a buffer overflow condition. Just wondering.

shadco · 05-03-2009, 01:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe

While we're here..any of you Mac folks who know how to get to a shell prompt, type this in:

){ :|:& };:

(Notice the spaces between the curly brackets)

I know in every flavor of Redhat, it will lock the box up tight. Does it do that in the Mac as well? It's an odd combination of keystrokes that cause a buffer overflow condition. Just wondering.

Joe Joe Joe, Disaster Recovery should not depend on backup, get it?

Forgot to respond to the lousy networking stack didncha.

I woulda thought Exchg would have mor share than that, but then as a M$ apologist, (or employee) you should know.

When I referred to data objects I was referring to the entire store not data objects within the store.

Code:

shad_mac:~ shad$ :(){ :|:& };:
[1] 4163
phila_mac:~ phila$ -bash: fork: Resource temporarily unavailable

snippage

-bash: fork: Resource temporarily unavailable
-bash: fork: Resource temporarily unavailable
-bash: fork: Resource temporarily unavailable

[1]+  Done                    : | :
shad_mac:~ shad$

Eyeball · 05-03-2009, 02:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KeyPineSavage

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eyeball

Touching a screen smears oil and gunk around at best, damages the plastic cover at worse.

iPhone screen is not plastic...zero, zip, nada. Just strong optical glass. RANT ON!

Update: Touching a screen smears oil and gunk around. It can be a mess.

Glass is good -- and glass is bad; e.g. weight. Apple is coming out with something they call a "media device". Don't know where I read it, or if I read it, maybe just presumed it will be touch screen also.

I got the impression it will be bigger than an iPhone but smaller than a lap top. If it is touch, a glass cover could make it heavy, and vulnerable to impact or flexing. We'll find out next month; it's due out in June with the new iPhone Lite.

Fwiw, the iPhone is NOT the first touch screen cell phone. Currently, it is NOT the only touch screen cell phone. I never looked closely at the Sharp touch cell phones, don't know if they are glass or plastic. But the Sharp cell phones that are touch also swivel the screen to reveal a button pad in the phone beneath the screen. This is so you can dial your numbers or whatever without smudging up the touch screen.

Joe · 05-03-2009, 06:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shadco

Joe Joe Joe, Disaster Recovery should not depend on backup, get it?

Shadco shadcod shadco..If you're not doing a comprehensive backup, you won't be able to do a bare metal restore to anything. What would you have DR to depend on? I addressed data replication, which is really part of a business contuity plan, so I'm not sure what you are talking about..or that you are either.

Quote:

Originally Posted by shadco

Forgot to respond to the lousy networking stack didncha.

I didn't realize this was an interrogation. I neither forgot nor did I ignore it: it wasn't worth responding to. The only instance I could se this being imprtant is if they ar sitting on eth dirty side of the internets; and if you are siting user workstations on the internet that are not behind a dedicated firewall, you deserve what you get. From an internal LAN perspective, their "lousy networking stack" isn't a problem or issue for internal data traffic.

Quote:

Originally Posted by shadco

I woulda thought Exchg would have mor share than that, but then as a M$ apologist, (or employee) you should know.

I'm neither an apologist nor an M$ employee; nothing they do is perfect, nor is anyone else. I use what is best supported and easiest to use, and is market best. Hey..when Apple comes up withan enterprise email system, I'll take a look at it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by shadco

When I referred to data objects I was referring to the entire store not data objects within the store.

I'm not sure what your pointing out to be the difference. You're picking nits that aren't important from a security, replication or restoration level perspective.

Quote:

Originally Posted by shadco

Code:

shad_mac:~ shad$ :(){ :|:& };:
[1] 4163
phila_mac:~ phila$ -bash: fork: Resource temporarily unavailable
 
snippage
 
-bash: fork: Resource temporarily unavailable
-bash: fork: Resource temporarily unavailable
-bash: fork: Resource temporarily unavailable
 
[1]+  Done                    : | :
shad_mac:~ shad$

Try it on your linux box that you said is also running on your "lappy" and tell me what it does.

knowhowiroll · 05-03-2009, 06:34 PM

"HOWEVER, I did look at the touch screen computers and would not buy one of them because all I could picture was the kids"

For that reason alone the concept will never be accepted IMO. My kids have Itouchs' and it makes the hair on my back satnd up when I see all the smudges all over the screen and the polished finish on the back of the case.

I will not even consider picking the things up to use unless I first grab a damp towel with some windex product and clean them.

Eyeball · 05-03-2009, 07:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by t3rockhall

What's happening in the corporate world is that execs are going out and purchasing their own Mac laptops, and forcing their IT departments to start supporting them. It's the TOP people who are making the change.

DING DING DING!!! Reality update for all APPLE-HOLICS!!! DING DING DING!!!

"Top" people are NOT using apples -- ok, may Steve Jobs is.

Middle management people are NOT using Apples -- except Apple mid-man. I don't know about all of the of 'little people' in a company.

Hey, I travel more than I care to, internationally. I am in airport lounges more than I every want to be. I can tell you for a FACT, overwhelmingly, the computers we see business execs using is almost entirely IBM/Lenovo ThinkPad. Occasionally we see an HP or a Sony Viaro but it is very rare. I was talking about this today with another person that travel extensively. Same observation -- never sees Apples, almost entirely IBM. Once you get into Asia you see execs using more Japanese computers -- Sony,Toshiba, ... and we see a lot of 3/4 and 1/2 size computers used by traveling Asian execs.

Here you go; the Lenovo 'Pocket Yoga':

fidhhook54 · 05-03-2009, 08:12 PM

''The Russians (T3) are very proud of the company's that only operate inside Russia",
the International corporations are crap to them.

Apple computers are good on Graphics,
if you business is graphics and design, sure
why not, count how many Fortune 500 company's use Mac's,
maybe only Aaple is still using Mac computers...

most fortune 500 company's use DELL, HP and IBM servers, I read about it on Forbes.

Some corporations that operate in the US have a business model very similar
to the russian mafia, they have to have people (certain cults) believing their products
are the best...
and or they don't allow "intrusions" in the corporation, or only give part of their business to another "mafioso", so the money never leaves the mafia's (Aaple) hands.

Aaple operates in the same way, at least Microsoft
comunicates and does bussiness with other corporations...

Apple people belong to a "club" and they pay to belong to that club dearly,
and the people that run Apple make sure these people can't go anywhere else (thru advertising),
being a AAPLE-HOLIC is making part of the "CULT".

Part of their marketing campaign is making the customer believe
their products are innovating and the best...

IBM and other computer corporations were building computers when Steve Jobs
was still in his father nuts.

maybe when Aaple finally comes out with their computer touch screen
monitors, that HP and DELL already have, they will advertise they invented such technology...
and the club members will believe them.

my first computer had 48kb of ram (spectrum) then I had a Commodore AMIGA,
then I had a IBM (PS/1), then I had a Toshiba (satellite), after I had another IBM (aptiva), then I had 2 compaq Presario's,
now I have 2 dell (1laptop/1desktop). I dont know which Windows problems you Apple people are talking about...
I had windows 95, Windows 98, 98SE, currently have XP and VISTA, dont remember of ever having a Windows related problem (crush),

I just replaced the computers cause they become slow due to not enough memory, broken monitors, etc.

Dream Shallow · 05-03-2009, 08:15 PM

its simple really go AlienWare

shadco · 05-03-2009, 08:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe

Shadco shadcod shadco..If you're not doing a comprehensive backup, you won't be able to do a bare metal restore to anything. What would you have DR to depend on? I addressed data replication, which is really part of a business contuity plan, so I'm not sure what you are talking about..or that you are either.

I didn't realize this was an interrogation. I neither forgot nor did I ignore it: it wasn't worth responding to. The only instance I could se this being imprtant is if they ar sitting on eth dirty side of the internets; and if you are siting user workstations on the internet that are not behind a dedicated firewall, you deserve what you get. From an internal LAN perspective, their "lousy networking stack" isn't a problem or issue for internal data traffic.

I'm neither an apologist nor an M$ employee; nothing they do is perfect, nor is anyone else. I use what is best supported and easiest to use, and is market best. Hey..when Apple comes up withan enterprise email system, I'll take a look at it.

I'm not sure what your pointing out to be the difference. You're picking nits that aren't important from a security, replication or restoration level perspective.

Try it on your linux box that you said is also running on your "lappy" and tell me what it does.

Joe

I get that you don't understand a proper disaster recovery strategy M$ doesn't either.

Joe · 05-03-2009, 09:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shadco

Joe

I get that you don't understand a proper disaster recovery strategy M$ doesn't either.

That's certainly an interesting answer.

fidhhook54 · 05-04-2009, 04:13 PM

Aaple club members pay for exclusivity, it makes part of being a member,
the Iphone will cost maximum 100 doll if they did not had done the exclusivity
deal with ATT, the mafia operates in similar ways...

its o.k, theres worst out there paying 1000's doll for a Vertu phone.

Aaple-holics are like suckers, one is born every minute...

Joe · 05-04-2009, 04:43 PM

Again, the intent of the thread wasn't to compare or contrast Apple to Windows, Linux, HP-UX or even VMS. That's not the point.

My point was Apple is making it difficult for a business to purchase their computer; past that; it's all speculation and opinion.

t3rockhall · 05-04-2009, 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fidhhook54

Aaple-holics are like suckers, one is born every minute...

If it weren't for Apple, you might still be using MS-DOS, and loving it.

Macs seem to keep a useful life for a lot longer than Windows boxes -- a fact that actually brings the price down over the years. My fully functioning ca. 2000 G4/867 is still in daily use, networked with my 6 year old G5 iMac. I won't have a reason or an excuse to upgrade to a new Intel Mac until the newest OS (10.6) comes out later this year or next. My old Macs will retain a resale value of hundreds of dollars as well.

Please. Buy what you like, what you want, and what you can afford. I have no dog in this fight. No Apple stock, no MS stock, no Dell... yadda yadda.

shadco · 05-04-2009, 04:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe

Again, the intent of the thread wasn't to compare or contrast Apple to Windows, Linux, HP-UX or even VMS. That's not the point.

My point was Apple is making it difficult for a business to purchase their computer; past that; it's all speculation and opinion.

I have to agree with your original point. I'm dumbfounded that they didn't get you right to corporate sales. I buy frequently from them and it is painless but I guess I benefitted from the fact we were already setup with them.

I have also had extraordinary service from them over they years where each time I have had to take advantage of support they have always taken the course of action that provided us with the maximum possible benefit.