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Old 04-30-2009, 09:14 AM
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Default Chrysler & Fiat Merge

Great news
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Old 05-01-2009, 05:13 AM
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Not sure what is great about it. FIAT (Fix It Again Tony) is in bad trouble on there side of things also. Getting money/business thrown at them by the government too.

All a bunch of crap if you ask me (I know, knowone asked).
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Old 05-01-2009, 06:47 AM
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Not sure what is great about it. FIAT (Fix It Again Tony) is in bad trouble on there side of things also. Getting money/business thrown at them by the government too.

All a bunch of crap if you ask me (I know, knowone asked).
Really, I thought FIAT had a good rep?
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Old 05-01-2009, 07:04 AM
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Yeah looks like two wrongs don't make a right. If Daimler couldn't make them viable Fiat sure can't. Small little efficient cars are not too popular to Americans. Besides, they can go buy a civic right now. The goverment thinks this is the way Chrysler can survive. Not to mention a host of other issues.
The only way they can survive is to make profitable cars that everyone wants, that are affordable, and they sell a millions and millions of them. Don't ask me how to do it. They need a Steve Jobs type CEO.

I'm interested to see how this thing really unfolds though.
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Old 05-01-2009, 07:34 AM
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Although I am opposed to and uncomfortable with the role the state is playing in this deal, I am interested to see how a 55% UAW ownership stake plays out.

Will the UAW approve all manor of perks and compensation to drive Chrysler under or will they recognize that their continued employement and sucess depends on that of Chryslers.
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Old 05-01-2009, 07:40 AM
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Although I am opposed to and uncomfortable with the role the state is playing in this deal, I am interested to see how a 55% UAW ownership stake plays out.

Will the UAW approve all manor of perks and compensation to drive Chrysler under or will they recognize that their continued employement and sucess depends on that of Chryslers.

Or will they realize that paying an employee $75 an hour effective. (all in) is the path to no profit?

The Fiat deal is being pushed by the fed because the fed wants to shove little cars down our collective throats, and fiat has some very fuel efficient platforms. The problem lies in that Americans LIKE SUV's etc, thats why they buy them. It will indeed be interesting to see how it shapes up. This is certainly not just a problem of overpaid execs, or whining unions.
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Old 05-01-2009, 07:42 AM
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The Fiat deal is being pushed by the fed because the fed wants to shove little cars down our collective throats ...




By shoving little cars down our throats it also bumps the economy. Global warming is a fraud, but it has tremendous potential to bail out the slumping economy by require green-this, green-that, green-everything. Someone has to make, transport, sell, and use all of that required "green" product. It can breed it's own "green" economy. The more "green" is required, the more it injects economic growth potential into the landscape of the overall economy.
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Old 05-01-2009, 07:51 AM
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Don't forget, Fiat is only a partial owner. I believe the majority owner (55%) is now the UAW. I don't see that working out very well.
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Old 05-01-2009, 07:57 AM
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By shoving little cars down our throats it also bumps the economy. Global warming is a fraud, but it has tremendous potential to bail out the slumping economy by require green-this, green-that, green-everything. Someone has to make, transport, sell, and use all of that required "green" product. It can breed it's own "green" economy. The more "green" is required, the more it injects economic growth potential into the landscape of the overall economy.
I disagree, government intervention into the private sector never has a good ending. Part of the reason the auto industry is in the state it is; is a result of government intervention (i.e. emissions standards and safety standards). If there was a huge market for "little green cars" the government wouldn't have to force companies to make them. Every problem with the economy to date can be traced back to government intervention and right now it is just being added to.
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Old 05-01-2009, 08:41 AM
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... If there was a huge market for "little green cars" the government wouldn't have to force companies to make them.

I don't think they are going to force companies to make little green cars. They will just require that you and drive them, then we will line up like sheep at the company car store to buy little green cars.

I do believe that is how it is playing out.
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Old 05-01-2009, 09:15 AM
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Really, I thought FIAT had a good rep?

Can't tell you what program it was but just the other night (Maybe nightline) was watching and they stated that the Italian government gave incentives to the buying public to purchase the "Home grown" brand. If I heard this correctly FIAT also owns Lamborghini and Ferrari. Production of these makes will also be cut as demand had weakened, cutting further into profits.
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Old 05-01-2009, 10:11 AM
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I don't think they are going to force companies to make little green cars. They will just require that you and drive them, then we will line up like sheep at the company car store to buy little green cars.

I do believe that is how it is playing out.

Yes "they" will "force" you, by requiring manufacturers to meet certain mpg requirements etc.
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Old 05-01-2009, 11:20 AM
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Yes "they" will "force" you, by requiring manufacturers to meet certain mpg requirements etc.
That will do wonders for the market for used cars- I guess that falls into the category of unintended consequences. I'll never buy a new little green car.

That is a slippery slope, and I guarantee that the voting public will push back long before the government can put ironclad legislation to force people to purchase little green deathtraps.

What ever happened to all those safety standards? Are they just our of style now?
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Old 05-01-2009, 12:11 PM
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There are ways to make you buy those little green cars.

GAS $8.00 Per Gal like across the pond.

Don't say it can't happen, cause they can do anything they want.
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Old 05-01-2009, 02:43 PM
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That will do wonders for the market for used cars- I guess that falls into the category of unintended consequences. I'll never buy a new little green car.

That is a slippery slope, and I guarantee that the voting public will push back long before the government can put ironclad legislation to force people to purchase little green deathtraps.

What ever happened to all those safety standards? Are they just our of style now?
x2!! I have NO interest in buying a small car for any reason.
In fact, in addition to needing a large truck for towing, the safety factor is one of the largest reasons that i have only owned trucks for the last 10 plus years. I feel very unsafe in small cars, and have no interest in putting myself or my family in one.
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Old 05-01-2009, 03:06 PM
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There are ways to make you buy those little green cars.

GAS $8.00 Per Gal like across the pond.

Don't say it can't happen, cause they can do anything they want.

First of all, don't underestimate the fabric and will of this country. There is a limit to how much they can try to screw with the economy. $8 gas crosses that limit, along with third world health care and unconstitutional gun policy.

Second, at $8 a gallon, I would still keep my comfortable 23 MPG mid-size car, and drive it until it fell apart and then buy another used one.
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Old 05-01-2009, 04:10 PM
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First of all, don't underestimate the fabric and will of this country. There is a limit to how much they can try to screw with the economy. $8 gas crosses that limit, along with third world health care and unconstitutional gun policy.

Second, at $8 a gallon, I would still keep my comfortable 23 MPG mid-size car, and drive it until it fell apart and then buy another used one.
I agree with you that much of America would rise up in numbers unseen before if gas ever reached $8 per Gal. without "Cause".
However look how many people were forced into buying a small car when gas was at $3-$4 per gal.
Now let them create another war in the middle east and prices will rise like crazy. And the more legit that "war" seems the more patriotic Americans will back it, and suffer through the next "Gas crisis".
Under normal circumstances $4 bucks a gal seemed to be the limit that would be tolerated here in the States but even with that small cars would increase dramatically in sales.
If they did this over a span of time (gradually making cars smaller/lighter) head on collisions would be less and less dangerous.
Mass is the key factor in any crash (along with quality of construction and design). So I agree I'd never want to meet an F150 with a "Smart" car!
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Old 05-01-2009, 06:55 PM
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I agree with you that much of America would rise up in numbers unseen before if gas ever reached $8 per Gal. without "Cause".
However look how many people were forced into buying a small car when gas was at $3-$4 per gal.
Now let them create another war in the middle east and prices will rise like crazy. And the more legit that "war" seems the more patriotic Americans will back it, and suffer through the next "Gas crisis".
Under normal circumstances $4 bucks a gal seemed to be the limit that would be tolerated here in the States but even with that small cars would increase dramatically in sales.
If they did this over a span of time (gradually making cars smaller/lighter) head on collisions would be less and less dangerous.
Mass is the key factor in any crash (along with quality of construction and design). So I agree I'd never want to meet an F150 with a "Smart" car!
I agree with you - there will be incremental folks that surrender to the deathtraps with incremental increases in fuel costs, and they do have a mission of destroying the class of upwardly mobile "luxury" consumers, so the resources available in the economy to buy mid size cars and trucks will be squeezed. But the same folks that will bend over and buy the little toy cars are the people who are prone to bending over already. There is still a large contingent of people in the country who simply don't like to be told what to do, and I am a proud member of that group.
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Old 05-02-2009, 07:55 AM
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need to read the rest of the book but here is a great summary
"What was it they'd always told us about the vicious competition of the profit system, where men had to compete for who'd do a better job than his fellows? Vicious, wasn't it? Well, they should have seen what it was like when we all had to compete with one another for who'd do the worst job possible. There's no surer way to destroy a man than to force him into a spot where he has to aim at not doing his best, where he has to struggle to do a bad job, day after day. That will finish him quicker than drink or idleness or pulling stick-ups for a living. But there was nothing else for us to do except to fake unfitness. The one accusation we feared was to be suspected of ability. Ability was like a mortgage on you that you could never pay off. And what was there to work for? You knew that your basic pittance would be given to you anyway, whether you worked or not - your ‘housing and feeding allowance,' it was called - and above that pittance, you had no chance to get anything, no matter how hard you tried. You couldn't count on buying a new suit of clothes next year - they might give you a ‘clothing allowance' or they might not, according to whether nobody broke a leg, needed an operation or gave birth to more babies. And if there wasn't enough money for new suits for everybody, then you couldn't get yours, either.
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Old 05-02-2009, 10:42 AM
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need to read the rest of the book but here is a great summary
"What was it they'd always told us about the vicious competition of the profit system, where men had to compete for who'd do a better job than his fellows? Vicious, wasn't it? Well, they should have seen what it was like when we all had to compete with one another for who'd do the worst job possible. There's no surer way to destroy a man than to force him into a spot where he has to aim at not doing his best, where he has to struggle to do a bad job, day after day. That will finish him quicker than drink or idleness or pulling stick-ups for a living. But there was nothing else for us to do except to fake unfitness. The one accusation we feared was to be suspected of ability. Ability was like a mortgage on you that you could never pay off. And what was there to work for? You knew that your basic pittance would be given to you anyway, whether you worked or not - your ‘housing and feeding allowance,' it was called - and above that pittance, you had no chance to get anything, no matter how hard you tried. You couldn't count on buying a new suit of clothes next year - they might give you a ‘clothing allowance' or they might not, according to whether nobody broke a leg, needed an operation or gave birth to more babies. And if there wasn't enough money for new suits for everybody, then you couldn't get yours, either.


Alrighty Then.
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