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Old 03-13-2009, 08:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Hydro View Post
Well said. Fundamental question still remains - "when does "life" begin" for a human. At fertilization? At first cell division? When a fetus can survive outside of the womb? When a fetus can survive in a machine?

So what is the fate of all of the embyos in fertility clinics? Is it murder when they are disposed of?
T3/Hydro,

Human reproductive physiology goes like this. (Usually) Sperm are deposited and within a very few hours populate uterus/tubes/perhaps even abdomen. (Surprising fast)

Ovulation occurs from ovary. Recall ovaries are separate from fallopian tubes. "Fertilization" i.e. union of sperm/ova is presumed to occur in the fallopian tube, but can occur in the abdomen. (hence the occasional intraabdominal pregnancy--some go to term!!!!!)

3-10 days later, blastula (collection of cells) implants into uterine lining triggering HCG production of lining of uterus.. AKA Implantation.

All other attempts to define "Humanity" "Life" etc. are therefore relative. All of us were "conceived" before we were attached or implanted. One in four "pregnancies" miscarry/abort. (Estimated/projected number)

Enter man with his laws and philosophy, rules, religion, science, biases, and the like. Legal definition of "people" occurred at "birth." In previous days this even was recorded by the church or state, or even simply in a family bible. Before churches or states, the baby was wiped off and there wasn't much legal ceremony. Certain societies regularly practiced infanticide and nobody cared much. "What was one more sole in an overpopulated, underfed world?"

These days, with progression of better understanding of physiology, our current society strongly frowns on interuterine infanticide, especially in the last trimester. Experience shows us most babies are viable after the second trimester. Now, there are more and more survivors from 24weeks (of 40weeks) gestation.

Ya wanna have an abortion. First trimester seems to be your time to avoid most if not all "legal" sanctions.

Embryonic stem cell research is on "surplus" embryos "donated" by fertility clinics and presumably their genetic "owners" than no longer find "use" for this "genetic material."

Funny that! Labs can now keep these "cells" "alive." The hope is to induce various cell lines that eventually contribute to advancement of knowledge and restore health to the afflicted.

No district attorney is likely to bring charges for the destruction of embryo's. Hence no arbitrary murder charges. Sadly, mother get away with causing fetal alcohol, and crack addicted babies also.

I have no answers, but pose these thoughts to express the following:

Convenient terms like "surplus embryos", "donated cells", "no longer have use for" ought to give even the coldhearted some type of ethical pause.

Sadly, abortion=birth control these days. When will infanticide=birth control?
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