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Here's an update on Iceland, it's falling into civil unrest, I suspect the bankers will get what they deserve in Iceland...........over here we hand them
Icelanders demand PM resignation, clash with police
Reuters, Saturday November 22 2008
REYKJAVIK, Nov 22 (Reuters) - Thousands of Icelanders demonstrated in Reykjavik on Saturday demanding the resignation of Prime Minister Geir Haarde and Central Bank Governor David Oddsson for failing to stop a financial meltdown in the country.
It was the latest in a series of protests in the capital since the financial meltdown that crippled the island's economy.
Hordur Torfason, a well-known troubadour in Iceland and the main organiser of the protests, said the protests would continue until the government stepped down.
"They don't have our trust and they are no longer legitimate," Torfason said as the crowds gathered in the drizzle before the Althing, the Icelandic parliament.
A separate group of 200-300 people gathered in front of the city's main police station demanding the release of a young protester being held there, Icelandic media reported.
Police in riot gear used pepper spray to drive back an attempt to free the protester during which several windows at the police station were shattered. The protester was later released after a fine he had been sentenced to pay was paid.
Iceland's three biggest banks -- Kaupthing, Landsbanki and Glitnir -- collapsed under the weight of billions of dollars of debts accumulated in an aggressive overseas expansion, shattering the currency and forcing Iceland to seek aid from the International Monetary Fund (IMF).
This week, the North Atlantic island nation of 320,000 secured a package of more than $10 billion in loans from the IMF and several European countries to help it rebuild its shattered financial system.
Despite the loans, Iceland faces a sharp economic contraction and surging unemployment while many Icelanders also risk losing their homes and life savings.
A young man climbed onto the balcony of the Althing building, where the president appears upon inauguration and on Iceland's national day, and hung a banner reading: "Iceland for Sale - $2.100.000.000", the amount of the loan Iceland is getting from the IMF.
The rally lasted less than one hour and as daylight began to wane, demonstrators drifted away into the nearby coffee shops where the price of a cup of coffee has shot up to 300 kronas in the last few weeks, up by about one third from before the crisis struck, as the currency has tumbled.
Opposition parties tabled a no-confidence motion in the government on Friday over its handling of the crisis, but the motion carries little chance of toppling the ruling coalition which has a solid parliamentary majority.
"I've just had enough of this whole thing," said Gudrun Jonsdottir, a 36-year-old office worker.
"I don't trust the government, I don't trust the banks, I don't trust the political parties, and I don't trust the IMF. We had a good country here and they've ruined it."
My reaction: It looks like Icelanders are progressing from a state of shock to a state of anger. I expect events will continue to detiorate towards violence and anarchy. The scary part is that, when the treasury bubble bursts, America's disintegration will be far worse than anything Iceland experiences.
Here's an update on Iceland, it's falling into civil unrest, I suspect the bankers will get what they deserve in Iceland...........over here we hand them
Icelanders demand PM resignation, clash with police
Reuters, Saturday November 22 2008
REYKJAVIK, Nov 22 (Reuters) - Thousands of Icelanders demonstrated in Reykjavik on Saturday demanding the resignation of Prime Minister Geir Haarde and Central Bank Governor David Oddsson for failing to stop a financial meltdown in the country.
It was the latest in a series of protests in the capital since the financial meltdown that crippled the island's economy.
Hordur Torfason, a well-known troubadour in Iceland and the main organiser of the protests, said the protests would continue until the government stepped down.
"They don't have our trust and they are no longer legitimate," Torfason said as the crowds gathered in the drizzle before the Althing, the Icelandic parliament.
A separate group of 200-300 people gathered in front of the city's main police station demanding the release of a young protester being held there, Icelandic media reported.
Police in riot gear used pepper spray to drive back an attempt to free the protester during which several windows at the police station were shattered. The protester was later released after a fine he had been sentenced to pay was paid.
Iceland's three biggest banks -- Kaupthing, Landsbanki and Glitnir -- collapsed under the weight of billions of dollars of debts accumulated in an aggressive overseas expansion, shattering the currency and forcing Iceland to seek aid from the International Monetary Fund (IMF).
This week, the North Atlantic island nation of 320,000 secured a package of more than $10 billion in loans from the IMF and several European countries to help it rebuild its shattered financial system.
Despite the loans, Iceland faces a sharp economic contraction and surging unemployment while many Icelanders also risk losing their homes and life savings.
A young man climbed onto the balcony of the Althing building, where the president appears upon inauguration and on Iceland's national day, and hung a banner reading: "Iceland for Sale - $2.100.000.000", the amount of the loan Iceland is getting from the IMF.
The rally lasted less than one hour and as daylight began to wane, demonstrators drifted away into the nearby coffee shops where the price of a cup of coffee has shot up to 300 kronas in the last few weeks, up by about one third from before the crisis struck, as the currency has tumbled.
Opposition parties tabled a no-confidence motion in the government on Friday over its handling of the crisis, but the motion carries little chance of toppling the ruling coalition which has a solid parliamentary majority.
"I've just had enough of this whole thing," said Gudrun Jonsdottir, a 36-year-old office worker.
"I don't trust the government, I don't trust the banks, I don't trust the political parties, and I don't trust the IMF. We had a good country here and they've ruined it."
My reaction: It looks like Icelanders are progressing from a state of shock to a state of anger. I expect events will continue to detiorate towards violence and anarchy. The scary part is that, when the treasury bubble bursts, America's disintegration will be far worse than anything Iceland experiences.
is funny how Iceland colapse, the first Country to have a network of hydrogen fuel stations...
they went against the OIL business...
that do you expect?
they went against the OIL man and lost.
there's more Country's out there trying to outsmart the OIL business, some will met
similar faith's.
And Gold is going up not only because of demand.
With the high prices of gold in the last years, some instability is being created
in the Nations that produce it.
Wars are being paid in Africa with the money from the yellow metal.
instability in Country's that are the big producers of GOLD, is also
what is fueling the Metal.
RCL was at 6 friday, today 8.70.
see if GOlD can do that in 3 days...
And Gold is going up not only because of demand.
With the high prices of gold in the last years, some instability is being created
in the Nations that produce it.
Wars are being paid in Africa with the money from the yellow metal.
instability in Country's that are the big producers of GOLD, is also
what is fueling the Metal.
RCL was at 6 friday, today 8.70.
see if GOlD can do that in 3 days...
yeah it made a new all time high in some currencies just yesterday, imagine that ?
good insurance policy for folks somewhere I guess
Gotta give credit (sorry) where credit is due. Nat, you had predicted this stuff, or something very similar, almost two years ago. Many on this site responded by trying to give you a hard time. You were right, they were wrong.
I posted information on this website that this was coming starting 2001......with references to the sources, when I posted information that GM would go busted ...over 5 years ago
you should have seen the outrage by other forum members....
early in 2007 we posted information that the financial system was broken and a financial disaster was at hand.
Big Gal and Tireless went into an all out assault with every criticism imaginable, along with others.........(ate up with it)
Now Fid has taken up a stance against GOLD..........(more entertainment is forthcoming)
Fid...........why don't you sell Gold short and make a killing?
Nah, this would be a more appropriate response:
Big Al
__________________ "Pedophiles must die" - Ted Nugent
here is a view from Monty Guild that may be of interest to some folks
The Sunday, November 30th Los Angeles Times’ front page headline boldly reads "BAILOUT: PAY NOW, WORRY LATER"
Those five words say it all. As we have expected for years, the crisis has developed. As we have assured readers for years, no major bank will be allowed to fail. Instead, after $8.5 Trillion in commitments by the U.S. and other governments, we now find ourselves about one third of the way through the crisis. We anticipate that the final bill worldwide will be between $20 and $40 trillion. Wow!
THE CURRENT BIG MISTAKE…assuming that Deflation lies ahead
There is a mistake currently being made by many short term oriented economists and market strategists. In the current case, the mistake is extrapolating the short term decline in the rate of inflation (due in part to lower oil prices) into the future, as if all prices will continue to fall. Many analysts have concluded that the problem ahead of us is deflation.
For over four decades, we have analyzed economic models, and in that period we have made many economic models of our own projecting economic events. One thing has become very obvious in our analysis. The most common mistake in economic analysis and modeling future events, relates to the human tendency to extrapolate the current trend into the future. I will go further, and say this does not only apply to economic modeling, but to all human predictive activity. There exists a human tendency to extrapolate the current trends into the future.
In our opinion, this is a patently incorrect analysis. In its most rudimentary form, such analysis is simply assuming that the recent past will repeat itself…and then grabbing the select data points, to support this point of view. We do not mean to impugn the work of a few very competent economists and analysts, who hold this view due to economic trends that they foresee. In our opinion, the majority of those subscribing to this view are simply extrapolating the recent past into the future.
OUR VIEW…One should ignore the recent past.
1. Inflation is the big problem looming in the future. Deflation will not be the problem.
2. The recent past has witnessed a brutal decline in global stocks. Our outlook for the coming days (and possibly weeks) is a continuation of the rally off of the October/November lows in world stock markets. It would not surprise us to see a stock market rally of one third or more of the recent decline. While a big rally continues to be a possibility, market volatility is at all time highs…so expect a wild ride.
3. Gold and commodities have been under pressure. In our opinion, gold is a good long term purchase on any sizeable decline. We believe that most other metals commodities will start to rally by mid 2009. The rally in all of these areas will be large.
4. Oil prices are under pressure, and will likely fall below $50 per barrel, but oil will not fall in price for a prolonged period of time. In our opinion, oil prices will bottom, probably in the $40’s per barrel and begin to rise.
5. In our opinion, the big long term risk is being short commodities. The decline in some commodities prices may last longer, but we are much closer to the end of that decline, than to the beginning.
6. The U.S. dollar has continued to hold its recent rally, even after the announcement of astounding amounts of capital that will be invested in, guaranteed, or loaned to financial enterprises. Thus far, the amounts total about $8.5 trillion globally. We anticipate that the bailout is only about one third completed. We believe that before it is over, the U.S. will be forced to increase their share of the pledges to about $25 trillion. Longer term, this spells disaster for the value of the U.S. dollar.
7. The world economy continues to slip deeper into negative growth, and the economic news will continue to get worse for months. As our readers know, we have believed that the U.S. recession/depression began in late 2007 or early 2008. Today, our views were corroborated by the prestigious National Bureau of Economic Research. They state that the recession began in December 2007. Their data is completely contrary to the erroneous data which was presented by the U.S. Government before the presidential election.
8. We continue to hold the view that the economies of the U.S. and of the world, will be under pressure throughout 2009, and into 2010.
WHAT TO DO?
Most stock markets are base-building and searching for a bottom. Some markets have begun a rally. Enjoy the stock market rallies worldwide, but beware of volatility and keep an eye on the exit.
Remember that commodities and inflation are not dead; they are only feigning death, much like a marsupial known in North America as an opossum. As soon as you turn your back, the opossum jumps up and runs away. In our opinion, inflation itself may be playing dead, imitating the opossum.
here is a view from Monty Guild that may be of interest to some folks
The Sunday, November 30th Los Angeles Times’ front page headline boldly reads "BAILOUT: PAY NOW, WORRY LATER"
Those five words say it all. As we have expected for years, the crisis has developed. As we have assured readers for years, no major bank will be allowed to fail. Instead, after $8.5 Trillion in commitments by the U.S. and other governments, we now find ourselves about one third of the way through the crisis. We anticipate that the final bill worldwide will be between $20 and $40 trillion. Wow!
THE CURRENT BIG MISTAKE…assuming that Deflation lies ahead
There is a mistake currently being made by many short term oriented economists and market strategists. In the current case, the mistake is extrapolating the short term decline in the rate of inflation (due in part to lower oil prices) into the future, as if all prices will continue to fall. Many analysts have concluded that the problem ahead of us is deflation.
For over four decades, we have analyzed economic models, and in that period we have made many economic models of our own projecting economic events. One thing has become very obvious in our analysis. The most common mistake in economic analysis and modeling future events, relates to the human tendency to extrapolate the current trend into the future. I will go further, and say this does not only apply to economic modeling, but to all human predictive activity. There exists a human tendency to extrapolate the current trends into the future.
In our opinion, this is a patently incorrect analysis. In its most rudimentary form, such analysis is simply assuming that the recent past will repeat itself…and then grabbing the select data points, to support this point of view. We do not mean to impugn the work of a few very competent economists and analysts, who hold this view due to economic trends that they foresee. In our opinion, the majority of those subscribing to this view are simply extrapolating the recent past into the future.
OUR VIEW…One should ignore the recent past.
1. Inflation is the big problem looming in the future. Deflation will not be the problem.
2. The recent past has witnessed a brutal decline in global stocks. Our outlook for the coming days (and possibly weeks) is a continuation of the rally off of the October/November lows in world stock markets. It would not surprise us to see a stock market rally of one third or more of the recent decline. While a big rally continues to be a possibility, market volatility is at all time highs…so expect a wild ride.
3. Gold and commodities have been under pressure. In our opinion, gold is a good long term purchase on any sizeable decline. We believe that most other metals commodities will start to rally by mid 2009. The rally in all of these areas will be large.
4. Oil prices are under pressure, and will likely fall below $50 per barrel, but oil will not fall in price for a prolonged period of time. In our opinion, oil prices will bottom, probably in the $40’s per barrel and begin to rise.
5. In our opinion, the big long term risk is being short commodities. The decline in some commodities prices may last longer, but we are much closer to the end of that decline, than to the beginning.
6. The U.S. dollar has continued to hold its recent rally, even after the announcement of astounding amounts of capital that will be invested in, guaranteed, or loaned to financial enterprises. Thus far, the amounts total about $8.5 trillion globally. We anticipate that the bailout is only about one third completed. We believe that before it is over, the U.S. will be forced to increase their share of the pledges to about $25 trillion. Longer term, this spells disaster for the value of the U.S. dollar.
7. The world economy continues to slip deeper into negative growth, and the economic news will continue to get worse for months. As our readers know, we have believed that the U.S. recession/depression began in late 2007 or early 2008. Today, our views were corroborated by the prestigious National Bureau of Economic Research. They state that the recession began in December 2007. Their data is completely contrary to the erroneous data which was presented by the U.S. Government before the presidential election.
8. We continue to hold the view that the economies of the U.S. and of the world, will be under pressure throughout 2009, and into 2010.
WHAT TO DO?
Most stock markets are base-building and searching for a bottom. Some markets have begun a rally. Enjoy the stock market rallies worldwide, but beware of volatility and keep an eye on the exit.
Remember that commodities and inflation are not dead; they are only feigning death, much like a marsupial known in North America as an opossum. As soon as you turn your back, the opossum jumps up and runs away. In our opinion, inflation itself may be playing dead, imitating the opossum.
here is a view from Monty Guild that may be of interest to some folks
The Sunday, November 30th Los Angeles Times’ front page headline boldly reads "BAILOUT: PAY NOW, WORRY LATER"
Those five words say it all. As we have expected for years, the crisis has developed. As we have assured readers for years, no major bank will be allowed to fail. Instead, after $8.5 Trillion in commitments by the U.S. and other governments, we now find ourselves about one third of the way through the crisis. We anticipate that the final bill worldwide will be between $20 and $40 trillion. Wow!
THE CURRENT BIG MISTAKE…assuming that Deflation lies ahead
There is a mistake currently being made by many short term oriented economists and market strategists. In the current case, the mistake is extrapolating the short term decline in the rate of inflation (due in part to lower oil prices) into the future, as if all prices will continue to fall. Many analysts have concluded that the problem ahead of us is deflation.
For over four decades, we have analyzed economic models, and in that period we have made many economic models of our own projecting economic events. One thing has become very obvious in our analysis. The most common mistake in economic analysis and modeling future events, relates to the human tendency to extrapolate the current trend into the future. I will go further, and say this does not only apply to economic modeling, but to all human predictive activity. There exists a human tendency to extrapolate the current trends into the future.
In our opinion, this is a patently incorrect analysis. In its most rudimentary form, such analysis is simply assuming that the recent past will repeat itself…and then grabbing the select data points, to support this point of view. We do not mean to impugn the work of a few very competent economists and analysts, who hold this view due to economic trends that they foresee. In our opinion, the majority of those subscribing to this view are simply extrapolating the recent past into the future.
OUR VIEW…One should ignore the recent past.
1. Inflation is the big problem looming in the future. Deflation will not be the problem.
2. The recent past has witnessed a brutal decline in global stocks. Our outlook for the coming days (and possibly weeks) is a continuation of the rally off of the October/November lows in world stock markets. It would not surprise us to see a stock market rally of one third or more of the recent decline. While a big rally continues to be a possibility, market volatility is at all time highs…so expect a wild ride.
3. Gold and commodities have been under pressure. In our opinion, gold is a good long term purchase on any sizeable decline. We believe that most other metals commodities will start to rally by mid 2009. The rally in all of these areas will be large.
4. Oil prices are under pressure, and will likely fall below $50 per barrel, but oil will not fall in price for a prolonged period of time. In our opinion, oil prices will bottom, probably in the $40’s per barrel and begin to rise.
5. In our opinion, the big long term risk is being short commodities. The decline in some commodities prices may last longer, but we are much closer to the end of that decline, than to the beginning.
6. The U.S. dollar has continued to hold its recent rally, even after the announcement of astounding amounts of capital that will be invested in, guaranteed, or loaned to financial enterprises. Thus far, the amounts total about $8.5 trillion globally. We anticipate that the bailout is only about one third completed. We believe that before it is over, the U.S. will be forced to increase their share of the pledges to about $25 trillion. Longer term, this spells disaster for the value of the U.S. dollar.
7. The world economy continues to slip deeper into negative growth, and the economic news will continue to get worse for months. As our readers know, we have believed that the U.S. recession/depression began in late 2007 or early 2008. Today, our views were corroborated by the prestigious National Bureau of Economic Research. They state that the recession began in December 2007. Their data is completely contrary to the erroneous data which was presented by the U.S. Government before the presidential election.
8. We continue to hold the view that the economies of the U.S. and of the world, will be under pressure throughout 2009, and into 2010.
WHAT TO DO?
Most stock markets are base-building and searching for a bottom. Some markets have begun a rally. Enjoy the stock market rallies worldwide, but beware of volatility and keep an eye on the exit.
Remember that commodities and inflation are not dead; they are only feigning death, much like a marsupial known in North America as an opossum. As soon as you turn your back, the opossum jumps up and runs away. In our opinion, inflation itself may be playing dead, imitating the opossum.
Your assumption I would care to read all of your posted blather is a reflection of your blindness.
I offered the bottom.
I will rephrase my question so that even you can understand (though I may be overestimating your capacity):
What has nat done in terms of investing as it relates to his manifesto concerning the global capital markets?
In other words, have you bought or sold anything lately, nat?
Big Al
I'm sorry, when I said some folks may want to read the above post, I wasn't talking to you.....
Are you calling a bottom and a return to a new Bull Market? Or a bottom that would start short term counter trend Bear market rally.
Is your bottom # based on a 50% retracement from the 14,000 High ?
or a wild azz guess?
I'll realize attempting to converse with a big mouth jerk on the internet is futile, but for the sake of the forum needed to identify your bottom call and how you came up with it
also
The ESF has the legal authority to trade in any market.
I agree with you about futility and big mouths; but I am an optimist so I continue to believe that you can be cured.
Re-read the thread genius, the answers to your questions are there. It's modeled, using historic pricing for 120 different indices and funds. No, you can't have the algorithms, they are mine. You can buy the pricing from any number of vendors and create your own.
"Retracement" Please stop trying to sound like you know wtf you are talking about. Wait a minute, that would be impossible for you to do; my apologies for the incorrect assumption.
Thanks for your usual brilliant contribution
Big Al
__________________ "Pedophiles must die" - Ted Nugent
Re: I'm Calling The Bottom 
