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Random Quote: Catch them all and let the wife sort them out
I am with you 100%. The cynic in me tells me this is not just about selling papers. It is some combination of 1) guys jawing down the market to make money on the downside just like was done with oil when it spiked 2)Politically motivated to put Obama in the white house, and the uber-cynical 3) Both parties are trying to destroy the wealth of the middle class to usher in the new socialist world order.
2)Politically motivated to put Obama in the white house
I'm coming around to #2 Joe.
I had Bloomberg on in the background and the hairs stood up on my arms when I read your post.
Roger Altman, CEO of Evercore and 'usual suspect' on Bloomberg, just had the microphone for ten minutes espousing the tremendous circle of amazing economic gurus' ears Obama had command of and how his finance cabinet would act quickly on economic concerns. Including none other than Warren Buffett, and now come to think of it, Obama mentioned Buffett twice last night during the debate. Hmmm, I wonder if the current polls of who may be the next president elect had anything to do with Buffett investing no less than what? 8 billion dollars in a falling market?
I have to laugh when the left decry; "You know, Bush and all his wall street cronies, raping the masses for the upper 1%". lol, I don't think Jeffrey Stillings or Kenneth Lay have W on their Christmas card lists. Wasn't it this administration and it's appointed SEC that stopped that dawg from hunting, knowing the greedy were soon going to pull down the free market? It took guts and hurt the market when an example was made of Enron, especially when it was reeling post 9/11. It was a message, cut and clear. If you look at the dictionary definition of "Republican" it's base platform is business, finance and some agricultural concerns..............CAPITALISM! Heck, most of the Wall Street big G Money men are Dems. The current trend of Wall Street greed isn't a holdover of Clinton era laissez-faire with regard to the market, W's Enron **** hunt put the whoa on that, it's not even the banks or bankers, it's the Dems' policies of sub-prime loans, and political pressure on banks to stop red lining risky mortgages to the undeserved, going back to Janet Reno, and further back to Carter's Community Redevelopment Act. Now Obama is going to be the new Messiah of Finance and "resurrect" 'America the Great' from it's Conservative ashes? From tiny A.C.O.R.N.S do mighty yokes grow.
Yeah, build the market back up, deflect the blame, take the credit and then the REAL cash from investors as capital gains tax on PAPER money and redistribute the wealth. Pure Democrat genius.
The scope of that conspiracy theory would make another great Oliver Stone or Michael Moore film. Films that will never be made.
The common thread between Rebublican economic elitism and Democrat economic elitism is that they BOTH want the wealth concentrated in a very few number of super rich. All the lip service that the Rs pay to upward mobility and the American dream is just done to get votes of conservatives up and down the economic ladder.
The only difference between the two is that the Ds pander to the lowest rungs of the ladder, and those that are socially liberal, and they promise wealth distribution, but it will ultimately come from the middle - upper middle income wage earners.
Maybe that's the point of a Democratic vote? Figure out what rung of the ladder you're on and make a decision; are your concerns more important to you or are the concerns of others on other rungs? Then pull the lever.
I canvassed for the first president I voted for; Jimmy Carter. I was eighteen, headed for college and just had a liberal non-self centered ideology; everyone awta have. I did. Why not? I still donate to charity, I suppose the difference now is that I would prefer it be MY idea and to whom, not the government's. Odd, how many Democrat proponents will say; "I have no problem paying more taxes, if it will help others." But if left up to their own conscious effort, not mandated by law, how many would stroke that check? Few I'd bet.
Anyhoo, I'm not that eighteen year old anymore. I have two kids and all the bills, college. I don't have the luxury of voting for ideals. My responsibilities are on MY rung. Those others? Go out and vote for your own concerns. I guess.
The volitility. That's what's making this stuff not fun anymore. The volitility. I just can't believe I won't have a nice chunk of household name Blue Chip(s) in my portfolio for the long term. Man, I grew up with IBM, now I shouldn't hold her? Fahhhhk.
The long term problem is that at some point the wealth redistributors will get beyond critical mass with the electorate. The number of people that want to vote for the handout will swamp those that are pulling the cart for upward mobility. We are almost there now, and the short term problems with the economy are pushing this election over the top
After that happens, only having the cart slow to a crawl so that dissatisfaction with the welfare state rises, will swing things back. In the meantime, we will have turned the US into France, or worse the USSR of the 60s and 70s.
I really think the market is factoring in an Obama presidency - somewhere between extreme uncertainty, and outright concern that he will be the second comming of Herbert Hoover. Look at the trend line on the polls and the market and there is definitely a correlation, and I say his surge is the cause, not the effect.
Ain't gonna happen. Won't drop below 8200. I'll bet you 4 gin/tonics over it.
Yer on.
(and its VODKA! )
Big Al
Where's it at now...?
Ok, I don't need so much lime in my GT's.
Hell, I'll throw in 4 more for you (well brand, of course) if 8200 is the bottom. And I mean, the bottom.
OK, I'm confused. All I know is that I'm 2525.76 points to the up and I owe Al a bottle of Bombay. Now, who's getting the four VT's
Okay, I'll buy the drinks, because we are not at 7400 today
Seems that my bloated whale has reared its ugly head again. I still think mid 7000's is the bottom, and that is as much gut feeling based upon looking around and attempting to digest all the data, as what my models are telling me. Frankly, there is no model that will work in the current environment, because fundamentals and their outliers are not what is moving this market. It is pure confidence, or lack of, period.
I will take some pleasure in being wrong, in that the market is UP.
Big Al
whipsaws, get yer whipsaws here!!!
__________________ "Pedophiles must die" - Ted Nugent
... Frankly, there is no model that will work in the current environment, because fundamentals and their outliers are not what is moving this market. It is pure confidence, or lack of, period.
Only partially true. It is a loss of confidence in the entire fiscal system, systematically destabilized through deregulation contrary to the support necessary with a confidence based currency. We are literally witnessing a meltdown of the 'dollar'. Globally, everyone holding instruments linked to the USD are posturing to reduce their losses by injecting the minimum support, and the thus the minimum exposure to further losses, hoping to rebuild that confidence.
The problem is systemic. Confidence can't cure it. As soon as it appears stability has been realized all countries will start dumping dollars, t-bills, all fiscal instruments tied to the USD because what is coming next.
... Frankly, there is no model that will work in the current environment, because fundamentals and their outliers are not what is moving this market. It is pure confidence, or lack of, period.
Only partially true. It is a loss of confidence in the entire fiscal system, systematically destabilized through deregulation contrary to the support necessary with a confidence based currency. We are literally witnessing a meltdown of the 'dollar'. Globally, everyone holding instruments linked to the USD are posturing to reduce their losses by injecting the minimum support, and the thus the minimum exposure to further losses, hoping to rebuild that confidence.
The problem is systemic. Confidence can't cure it. As soon as it appears stability has been realized all countries will start dumping dollars, t-bills, all fiscal instruments tied to the USD because what is coming next.
the financial system sucked into a black hole? how can someone protect themselves from this?
didn't that just happen in Iceland last week?
Thomas Jefferson, the author of America’s Declaration of Independence, understood the threat posed by central banks:
"The central bank is an institution of the most deadly hostility existing against the Principles and form of our Constitution… Bankers are more dangerous than standing armies… [and] If the American People allow private banks to control the issuance of their currency, first by inflation and then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around them will deprive the People of all their Property until their Children will wake up homeless on the continent their Fathers conquered."
... Frankly, there is no model that will work in the current environment, because fundamentals and their outliers are not what is moving this market. It is pure confidence, or lack of, period.
Only partially true. It is a loss of confidence in the entire fiscal system, systematically destabilized through deregulation contrary to the support necessary with a confidence based currency. We are literally witnessing a meltdown of the 'dollar'. Globally, everyone holding instruments linked to the USD are posturing to reduce their losses by injecting the minimum support, and the thus the minimum exposure to further losses, hoping to rebuild that confidence.
The problem is systemic. Confidence can't cure it. As soon as it appears stability has been realized all countries will start dumping dollars, t-bills, all fiscal instruments tied to the USD because what is coming next.
the financial system sucked into a black hole? how can someone protect themselves from this?
didn't that just happen in Iceland last week?
Thomas Jefferson, the author of America’s Declaration of Independence, understood the threat posed by central banks:
"The central bank is an institution of the most deadly hostility existing against the Principles and form of our Constitution… Bankers are more dangerous than standing armies… [and] If the American People allow private banks to control the issuance of their currency, first by inflation and then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around them will deprive the People of all their Property until their Children will wake up homeless on the continent their Fathers conquered."
you now that gold will drop, the oil has drop considerable. gold is next...
most of the hedge funds that were betting on oil/gold futures to continue to rise will go belly up. http://www.bloggingstocks.com/2008/0...wrong-oil-bet/
The long term problem is that at some point the wealth redistributors will get beyond critical mass with the electorate. The number of people that want to vote for the handout will swamp those that are pulling the cart for upward mobility. We are almost there now, and the short term problems with the economy are pushing this election over the top
After that happens, only having the cart slow to a crawl so that dissatisfaction with the welfare state rises, will swing things back. In the meantime, we will have turned the US into France, or worse the USSR of the 60s and 70s.
I really think the market is factoring in an Obama presidency - somewhere between extreme uncertainty, and outright concern that he will be the second comming of Herbert Hoover. Look at the trend line on the polls and the market and there is definitely a correlation, and I say his surge is the cause, not the effect.
Yep, I'm with you on the reduction in production that is about to befall the U.S. as a result of socialism.
However, I still see cause for optimism. I've read recently that it has now happened that the total number of stocks available in the remainder of the world has equalled or exceeded the domestic stocks (don't know if in value, or just in number; not an expert). However, the arrival of competitors to the productivity of the United States means that investors can move their capital to parts of the world that are more capitalistic and likely more productive.
Those who do may be able to sustain the growth of their investments, while the economy of the U.S. stagnates from the effects of wealth redistribution. I recognize that socialists will simply try to tax away the resulting profits of those investors, but it offers some means of defense.
Then, eventually, attacks will begin on weaker allies or on more difficult-to-defend territories or shipping routes (as is happenign right now with the Somali pirates) and that will place additional stress on the nation. Perhaps a world power will develop that will actually attack large allies or the U.S. itself. Who knows what the outcome of that might be?
Drunken comments from the LittleMrs:
a: I can't believe I actually read 7 pages of posts on the market in a boating forum
b: WTF, right now oil is down, gas is cheaper, I'm going fishing !
c: I'm investing like an old lady right now - show me the dividends LOL
__________________ "La Nostra Barca" - 2005 GW 265 Express -- SOLD thanks to Bob at Angler's Edge "Change of Habit" - 2005 SeaFox 16' CC - - Yes, its a SeaFox and I like it ! so be nice
... Frankly, there is no model that will work in the current environment, because fundamentals and their outliers are not what is moving this market. It is pure confidence, or lack of, period.
Only partially true. It is a loss of confidence in the entire fiscal system, systematically destabilized through deregulation contrary to the support necessary with a confidence based currency. We are literally witnessing a meltdown of the 'dollar'. Globally, everyone holding instruments linked to the USD are posturing to reduce their losses by injecting the minimum support, and the thus the minimum exposure to further losses, hoping to rebuild that confidence.
The problem is systemic. Confidence can't cure it. As soon as it appears stability has been realized all countries will start dumping dollars, t-bills, all fiscal instruments tied to the USD because what is coming next.
the financial system sucked into a black hole? how can someone protect themselves from this?
didn't that just happen in Iceland last week?
Thomas Jefferson, the author of America’s Declaration of Independence, understood the threat posed by central banks:
"The central bank is an institution of the most deadly hostility existing against the Principles and form of our Constitution… Bankers are more dangerous than standing armies… [and] If the American People allow private banks to control the issuance of their currency, first by inflation and then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around them will deprive the People of all their Property until their Children will wake up homeless on the continent their Fathers conquered."
you now that gold will drop, the oil has drop considerable. gold is next...
most of the hedge funds that were betting on oil/gold futures to continue to rise will go belly up. http://www.bloggingstocks.com/2008/0...wrong-oil-bet/
In Iceland,if you had gold in a deposit box, you would not have been wiped out in 1 day..............like many many people were
the currency crashed, the financial market was down 70 % in one day and all the banks collapsed
... Frankly, there is no model that will work in the current environment, because fundamentals and their outliers are not what is moving this market. It is pure confidence, or lack of, period.
Only partially true. It is a loss of confidence in the entire fiscal system, systematically destabilized through deregulation contrary to the support necessary with a confidence based currency. We are literally witnessing a meltdown of the 'dollar'. Globally, everyone holding instruments linked to the USD are posturing to reduce their losses by injecting the minimum support, and the thus the minimum exposure to further losses, hoping to rebuild that confidence.
The problem is systemic. Confidence can't cure it. As soon as it appears stability has been realized all countries will start dumping dollars, t-bills, all fiscal instruments tied to the USD because what is coming next.
the financial system sucked into a black hole? how can someone protect themselves from this?
didn't that just happen in Iceland last week?
Thomas Jefferson, the author of America’s Declaration of Independence, understood the threat posed by central banks:
"The central bank is an institution of the most deadly hostility existing against the Principles and form of our Constitution… Bankers are more dangerous than standing armies… [and] If the American People allow private banks to control the issuance of their currency, first by inflation and then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around them will deprive the People of all their Property until their Children will wake up homeless on the continent their Fathers conquered."
you now that gold will drop, the oil has drop considerable. gold is next...
most of the hedge funds that were betting on oil/gold futures to continue to rise will go belly up. http://www.bloggingstocks.com/2008/0...wrong-oil-bet/
In Iceland,if you had gold in a deposit box, you would not have been wiped out in 1 day..............like many many people were
the currency crashed, the financial market was down 70 % in one day and all the banks collapsed
but that could never happen here? right?
Of course it could. I don't believe it will.
Exactly what is your point nat? For 7 years now you have been the harbinger of doom concerning the U.S. economy. The process of your vindication may well be afoot. So, beyond arguing for the sake of it, what is your point? Are you enjoying the chaos in the markets? Have you followed you own advice?
Big Al
__________________ "Pedophiles must die" - Ted Nugent
2)Politically motivated to put Obama in the white house
I'm coming around to #2 Joe.
I had Bloomberg on in the background and the hairs stood up on my arms when I read your post.
Roger Altman, CEO of Evercore and 'usual suspect' on Bloomberg, just had the microphone for ten minutes espousing the tremendous circle of amazing economic gurus' ears Obama had command of and how his finance cabinet would act quickly on economic concerns. Including none other than Warren Buffett, and now come to think of it, Obama mentioned Buffett twice last night during the debate. Hmmm, I wonder if the current polls of who may be the next president elect had anything to do with Buffett investing no less than what? 8 billion dollars in a falling market?
I have to laugh when the left decry; "You know, Bush and all his wall street cronies, raping the masses for the upper 1%". lol, I don't think Jeffrey Stillings or Kenneth Lay have W on their Christmas card lists. Wasn't it this administration and it's appointed SEC that stopped that dawg from hunting, knowing the greedy were soon going to pull down the free market? It took guts and hurt the market when an example was made of Enron, especially when it was reeling post 9/11. It was a message, cut and clear. If you look at the dictionary definition of "Republican" it's base platform is business, finance and some agricultural concerns..............CAPITALISM! Heck, most of the Wall Street big G Money men are Dems. The current trend of Wall Street greed isn't a holdover of Clinton era laissez-faire with regard to the market, W's Enron **** hunt put the whoa on that, it's not even the banks or bankers, it's the Dems' policies of sub-prime loans, and political pressure on banks to stop red lining risky mortgages to the undeserved, going back to Janet Reno, and further back to Carter's Community Redevelopment Act. Now Obama is going to be the new Messiah of Finance and "resurrect" 'America the Great' from it's Conservative ashes? From tiny A.C.O.R.N.S do mighty yokes grow.
Yeah, build the market back up, deflect the blame, take the credit and then the REAL cash from investors as capital gains tax on PAPER money and redistribute the wealth. Pure Democrat genius.
The scope of that conspiracy theory would make another great Oliver Stone or Michael Moore film. Films that will never be made.
Looks like the high court fully supports the "vote early vote often" philosophy.
It's a new variation of the "big tent' strategy. God forbid we might mistakenly take a valid voter's vote away with efforts to eliminate fraud.
Those tens of thousands of duplicates and dead guys are cancelling out the votes of others one for one. That's a lot worse than the handful of votes that might be thrown out by mistake if they actually did the proper due diligence.
Re: I'm Calling The Bottom 
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