Eyeball

At least the S.O.B. saved the taxpayers some money on the way out.

A New York City police lieutenant who gave the order to fire a Taser stun gun at a man who then fell to his death in Brooklyn committed suicide...
In the aftermath of Mr. Morales’s death, the department announced that the use of the Taser appeared to have violated departmental rules ...

http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/20...ts-suicide/?hp

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Kamper

I guess he felt death was preferable to prison and having his family deprived of his pension.

Sad time for both families.

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Garett

F__k the cop, poor Iman Morales!!!!! There is no way Morales should have died because of his mental breakdown!!!!!
Tasering a guy out on a ledge high above the ground, hell the cop (Pigott) should have given the order for all the troops to open fire and have a field day.

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There's no sense in stopping just because you're dead!

RI Builder

I put this whole thing firmly in the "I do not care either way category".

However, if saving taxpayer money concerns you, why not applaud the officer for ordering the taser to be fired? After all, Mr. Morales was living off of rent subsidies.

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Move along, nothing to see here.

bsmit24

This subject has concerned me for some time now. When tazers, pepper sprays, rubber bullets, etc were becoming widely accepted by LEOs they always portrayed the use of these less than lethal weapons as being used in place of a lethal weapon. Since that time, these weapons or "tools" as they describe them have become used as much or more for compliance as for their originally approved purpose. This should concern all citizens even when the final outcome is not death.

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Cracker

This whole situation is nothing short of a tragedy. It is a tradegy for Mr. Morales and his family as it was for the Lt. and his family. I think we can all agree the tazer should not have been deployed in that circumstance and it sounds like in hinesight the Lt. could not live with his decision either.... Reality is its real easy to sit on the sideline or be an arm chair quarterback but its totally different to have to live with your decisions good and bad when they are sometimes life and death and have to made at times in split seconds. Some of you have been there, many of you have not. We will all be judged at some time and the Lt. is facing his judgement now.

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"All that's necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing."Benjamin Franklin

firefisher

The whole thing is very sad. In the end, 2 people died when they didn't have too.

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bsmit24

This is a complete copout! There are to many instances were any normal person would realize that the use of a "less than lethal" weapon is excessive. Without even looking there are numerous incidences, the tazering of a father holding his two day old child which fell to the floor head first, the tazering and murder of a handcuffed black boy in louisiana, the tazering of a man on a ledge who fell to his death, the pepering and arrest of almost 300 people in st paul for peacefull assembly, etc. The state has become drunk with power and all to often dismisses the excess abuse of power as a tradegy.

Cracker

And this is a splatter gun approach to some POSSIBLY bad uses of a good tool that need to looked at individually. You cant take a very valuable tool because there is the appearence of its misuse. If indeed there was misuse then those that misused it should be dealt with. You gather your information fromthe news media which is generally very liberal in nature and USUALLY does not give a fair accountng of a story, why, because if they can leave out some details and spice it up then the story helps sell news papers or news time. So you see sometimes you DONT always have all the facts even by reading the news paper or listen to the news.

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"All that's necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing."Benjamin Franklin

fishingfun

While I agree at times these things are misused most of the time they are not but the out come is usually better then when a cop misuses his gun. I don't have a problem with an Officer using this knid of force if it keeps him out of arms way of getting hurt or killed. Most people are warned that if they do not obey the cop then they will use mace, taser, etc... so it not like the person does not know. I'm sure none of use have had a cop use one of these thing on us because we have never given them a reason for doing so.

finest times

if you asked a 100 people if someone falls from 8 feet above the ground would they die 98 of them would say no. He wasn't "HIGH ABOVE THE GROUND" he was standing on top of a roll away gate on a normal doorframe. 2nd he poked the cop on the fire escape several times with the light stick and if it broke wich it could of easily it could of cut the cop or if he threw it it could of cut bysytander that was close by watching. Dont believe everything you read and dont Monday morn. quarterback unless you have been through it yourself.

bsmit24

I fully understand your point about yellow journalism but they tend to be more statist in my opinion than liberal on many occasions. If these types of action are truly misuse then I agree that they should be treated on an individual bases and brought to court, not metered out by the "department" as if some simple rule violation has been broken. It seems to take a video of an extreme case of criminal acts by LEOs to trigger any action if at all.

bsmit24

The original intent was to give LEOs an alternative to their side arm, ie a person has a knife/bat and could injure the LEO so he uses a tazer to stop him instead of his side arm. Failure to obey a LEO is not sufficient grounds to tazer or spray an individual or group of people. Civil disobedience has had a long history in the US and its actions are supported in the Bill of Rights by the First Amendment, freedom of speach, freedom to partition, freedom to address grievances, etc.

Cracker

Bsmit,
You are wandering now and relying on your opinion. If a subject comes at me or any or LEO with a knife or bat he will be looking at a gun produced by me or any other competent officer and if I can do so safely he will get a verbal warning to drop the knife or bat depending on how close he is. My department rules (which I am sure are the same as other depts) is a tazer can be used on any individual who needs to be taken into custody (an arrest, mental patient etc.) and is resisting and showing physical signs of resisting (taking off of a shirt preparing to fight, clinching fists etc.). Pepper spray use is very similiar. You are also confusing freedom of speech with civil disobedience or pure civil violence. You have the right to march and demonstrate but demonstrations can and do get out of hand sometimes and when people are ordered to leave an area (usually numerous times and usually its not peaceful and is violent) then gas can be used.

I also must say the fact the individual was only standing 6 to 8 foot off the ground certainly puts a whole different look on it for the Lt., doesn't it. Worst case senerio is it was a violation of policy and not criminal. Meaning he was not trying to kill or even the guy. It is unfortunate when people die in police custody but the fact is it will always happen no matter how many precautions are taken. An arrest situation is stressful for the suspect. Most dont take care of themselves and are frequent drug abusers of some sort (not all) and some resist in some form or another and their body can't handle it. Police officers also die making arrests as it is stressful for them also. I remember an officer that worked with me that died making an arrest, heart attack.

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"All that's necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing."Benjamin Franklin

Cracker

Also you will notice the papers first line " A New York City police lieutenant who gave the order to fire a Taser stun gun at a man who then fell to his death in Brooklyn committed suicide" now why they have not lied, they just made you angry against the police and helped to change the story. If they would have said " A New York City police lieutenant who gave the order to fire a Taser stun gun at a man who then fell to his death in an 8 foot fall in Brooklyn committed suicide"

Typical Eyeball post. Police bash and then more facts come out that make the police officer not look like the evil doer that Eyeball wanted.. Do me a favor and come back when you have some facts with your argument or complaint...

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"All that's necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing."Benjamin Franklin

seagates

ask them again if falling from 8 feet (while naked and being incapacitated by 50K volts and thus unable to break their fall) if it could potentially be fatal.

bsmit24

Cracker,

With the instances that I mentioned did not have anyone "coming at" the LEO. If the case is such that the attacker is coming at the LEO, (or anyone for that matter) I would not hesitate to understand or justify that going for your sidearm is warranted. I am talking about instances were people are tazered for not "following orders" or for peaceful non cooperation. Wether I believe in the issue or not, violent action against a LEO usually does not end well and should be avoided.

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

The videos of the St. Paul mass arrest that I saw would definitely violate their constitutional rights as I and most civil libertarians and the supreme court understand them. I do not know if you have seen them but to be frank, when the civilian leos emulate the military in both appearance and action and the state and local governments give them cart blanc to violate US citizens civil liberties en mass there is a definite problem.

As I said above, I rarely believe what is on the evening news or in the news paper without confirmation and have seen first hand how wrong things can be in their zeal to make headlines. And I did not even look at the link, but heard the report yesterday and this morning on the radio, so yes as new info arises my view of this instance may change. However, my opinion of the use of less than lethal weapons will not.

For the record, I know that not all leos are the same and everyone has their good and bad personal traits that they bring to their job irreguardless of what their job is but somethings are intrenched in the establishment and must be changed.

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Eyeball

8-ft normally would not be considered a dangerous fall for some in control of their facilities. Someone that is electrocuted is not in control of their facilities. There is a reason why tasing someone 8-ft off the ground was against department policy.

As someone mentioned above, two people died that didn't need to. That makes it a tragedy.

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Seacat FL

If you don't fight with the police you won't be likely to be tased. If you fight with them they have to subdue you, they can't just walk away like a non leo. Would you prefer the old billy club?

Jimm

Thank you Cracker, thank you.