bsmit24

I tried to make it clear, I am not talking about attacking/assualting/violently resisting a leo.

Hooper

The correct term is "less lethal" NOT "less than lethal". Tasers, pepper spray, batons, bean bag rounds, so called "rubber bullets".....this stuff can and does kill people, though not the intent, it does happen, please be accurate.

bsmit24, are you saying that any possible misuse of police use of force should be a matter for the criminal court system?

As a law officer for 14 years I have experienced many situation that have been downright frightening, many of these have required me and others to make the right decision with limited information, limited resources sometimes, and certainly with limted time, not the days, weeks, months and years that the armchair quarterbacks are afforded upon review.

Thank God, the right decisions/actions are usually taken, hundreds and hundreds of dangerous situations are handled by police everyday and most of these, the vast majority end peacefully and you never hear about that. But sometimes, mistakes will happen, police officers are human.

But do you really believe that the criminal court is the place to review any possible misuse use of force? The job of being a police officer is made 100X harder and more stressful thanks to civil liability. I can't imagine if my actions, as right as I try to make them every day, could land me in front of a criminal court. I'd leave the profession, and so would a lot of good people.

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Seems there are more people riding in the wagon these days and far fewer pulling

Eyeball

If any misuse of force rises to the level of a crime then it seems to me a criminal court would be the appropriate place to review that misuse of force.

Hooper

How do you know if it rises to that level until an internal review takes place. And don't misunderstand me, I have no problem with corrupt cops going down. They ruin my good work, so I'm not defending anyone here, if a cop commits a crime there will first be an internal review and if that is appropriate, then charges should be filed, but you cannot possibly have every allegation of police misconduct reviewed in a court of law, that is absurd.

And regarding the NYPD case, this one decision by this Lt erases what probably was a long career of good decisions in awful situations. And people who don't know him pass judgement on him based upon this one incident. And some on this board will say that's enough to deem him a criminal, and that IMHO is pretty sad.

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Seems there are more people riding in the wagon these days and far fewer pulling

Eyeball

We do not disagree.

I'm guessing that the Lt that gave the OK for the tazing in violation of dept policy was probably anticipating a manslaughter charge; either deserved or perceived as a scapegoat to satisfy the public's outcry of the needless death. I believe he did have a pretty clean record otherwise, doubt he would take his life for anything that would not have ended in a severe penalty such as prison and a loss of his career.

Like I said above; two deaths that did not have to happen is a tragedy.

bsmit24

I think that Eyeball summed it up. I would generally prefer to see a civilian or at least partly civilian board be used for the reviews and then cases recommended for action or cleared.