Discussion of the Day-- Fishfinders...

CMBobby · 04-08-2009, 07:28 AM

Hello again folks! I've decided to put a discussion topic up here every now and then to see what people think. We carry a large line of fishfinders and I'm curious to see what the consensus is. There are the new digital sounders that have just recently gained popularity, and for good reasons-- filtering and digital signal processing help spot fish better, but what about HDS from Lowrance and Side Imaging from Humminbird. They are all excellent technologies, but what works best for your application? Are you a digital buff, or do you dig the old analog arcs? Start your engines-- now: GO!

Bobby

surfcaster51 · 04-08-2009, 09:04 PM

Si-tex/koden is where it all began and still at the top of my list.

Ease of use is a very important feature as actual technology between all the manufacturers really is not that different...............sonar is sonar although some have mastered the software to display it a bit better then others

I think humminbird and lowrance are fine products..............on a bass boat

The jury is still out on the lowrance HDS in my book and maybe a while to some bugs are ironed out.

NEXT........

CMBobby · 04-09-2009, 08:51 AM

The guys at Si-tex do make a heck of a machine, and even while keeping it simple to use they give you a good set of options and color palettes to suit your viewing needs. I'm really excited to see what people think about the digital sounders they released this year.

As for the HDS-- it does have a bit of a test ahead of it, but from what I've seen so far even offshore boaters can get excited about the capabilities of their broadband sounder. Even with a transom mount ducer (hear that center consolers?) they are getting deeper than ever-- pair the unit with a transducer with higher capabilities and bring in the detail even further... it's looking pretty good. Also-- did you know that you can record your soundings and look at them later on your PC? That's a pretty nifty feature and cool thing you can brag later to friends while your at home talking about the big catch

What do you guys think about the black box units? Did you know that there are 3kw Blackbox commercial sounders coming out now for the Furuno and Raymarine networked sounders? How about 2kw on a Garmin-- I think that's a feature that a lot of people don't even know is available on the GSD22. Let me know what you guys think!

CMBobby · 04-10-2009, 12:19 PM

Alright! Well this is a new board so I guess we haven't had much of a "discussion" per se, but I appreciate your feedback Surfcaster. Instead of Discussion of the day, next week I'll continue with a new topic, but it will be more of a weekly thing rather than daily (until we get more people involved). Again, all your comments are appreciated, and we look forward to talking with more of you guys in the coming months.

Prop Blast · 04-29-2009, 03:12 PM

Bobby,

I bought new electronics a year ago, going from separate FF and Nav to a combo unit, a Furuno GP-7000F with a 1k transducer. Not a "digital" machine, but very capable.

I've got to say that while the unit is fine -- especially the FF system, though wading through the maze of menus is frustrating and learning the unit certainly takes a time comitment.

The biggest frustration I found is the owners manuals -- not owner/operator friendly. You'd think they issue a DVD with each unit now. My old Si-Tex XJ-1 Loran came with a video tape and that's how I got to learn that unit.

BTW, I've kept the XJ-1.

In talking with my fishing friends, this is what we've come to believe:

Garmin: Most user friendly, best GPS, weaker FF function.
Furuno: Somewhat complex, best FF function (with the right xducer), weaker GPS as compared to the Garmins.
Raymarine: Most complicated, but good GPS and FF functions.
Lowrance: Okay, reliability issues with new products.

What do you guys at CM think?

PB

CMBobby · 05-01-2009, 12:22 PM

I think you make some excellent points Prop Blast. The general consensus I've gotten is about the same as what you and your friends have come to learn. I think it's important to know these different opinions because having something you know how to use while your on the boat is vital! If you have a $2k+ sounder on your boat, but you don't know how to use it, then what's it good for, right?

I also agree that there needs to be more videos helping consumers use products as complicated as some of these machines are. Luckily we have places like YouTube where people can post their own videos if they so desired. I know I've seen some on the Furuno 3D and some of the Garmin plotters and there are occasionally reviews that can help detail how capabilities are performed. Does anyone have any good links to videos reviewing marine electronics?

You also bring up another good point-- the transducer. This is very important to maximizing your fishfinder's potential. This is where I'll move the discussion since you brought it up

What do you guys think of the fairly new B164 flush mount 1KW ducers? I'm especially interested in seeing how people's performance varied if they upgraded from a 600-watt or moved from something like a B260. If you were using the same machine I'd be interested to know how your performance improved (or suffered).

What transducer are you guys using? Do any of you have any opinions on any of the newer wide beam ducers from Airmar? Has anyone used the new Transom mount 1kw transducers? Also-- did you know that we can special order any transducer from Gemeco? If you have a special application and we don't happen to have it in stock we can check into getting one shipped directly to you as a special order.

Thanks for all your comments!

steelhead130 · 05-04-2009, 08:27 PM

I just installed 2 HDS units on my CC. I have not been on the water yet, but have seen many screen shots and MMC recordings. Also saw recordings of the new sonar imagining. Looks to be great so far. My buddy is supposed to get it on his boat in a week or 2.
I have been using Lowrance products for the last 10 years and cant wait to get these on the water. My buddy says he is marking fish at 40 MPH. My 104 kept bottom at all speeds with my Airmar tilted element but never marked fish over say 10MPH.
Ill post some screenshots as soon as I get on the water.

CMBobby · 05-05-2009, 07:09 AM

That is supposed to be the advantage with the new HDS units. They are going to be able to read at faster speeds than what has been possible with previous sounders. I'm excited to see the results in your pictures. It's incredible technology indeed if it can spot a fish, let alone bottom, at the speeds your friend has been getting, so this is definitely good news for Lowrance.

Thanks for all your comments!

PROFINITY · 05-10-2009, 04:43 PM

I am looking to purchase and install the B164 and would like to know how folks like or dislike it. I also am considering the Furuno 7000 NT/F. Is this unit NOT a digital FF? In my experiences and opinion, Furuno makes the best FF's. I also asked CM a question in another thread about a bulk buy price and am awaiting an answer. Thank you in advance.

Prop Blast · 05-11-2009, 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PROFINITY

...I also am considering the Furuno 7000 NT/F. Is this unit NOT a digital FF? ....

Profinity,

I've got the Furuno GP-7000F (w/ the C-MAP cartridge). It is NOT a digital unit. It's a nice unit, but will take some time to get used to.

Let me know if you've got questions.

PB

PROFINITY · 05-11-2009, 04:57 PM

PB- Thank you for the reply. I have owned Furuno equipment (FF's & radar) before and have used the NavNet stuff and like it. I already some some familiarity with it. Would you buy the unit again or something else. I really like Furuno FF's.

CMBobby · 05-15-2009, 03:14 PM

Thanks Prop-Blast!

For the weekend I leave you with a topic to discuss. Heaving compensation on the new FCV1150-- you use a satellite compass that uses vertical compass movement to compensate for the waves making your boat go up and down therefore making your fishfinder read more accurately (it takes away the spikes in depth created by your boats vertical movement). Right now it's a commercial type item, but end users can purchase it-- you need the SC50 and the 1150, which can cost a pretty penny, but what do you guys think? Is it worth the extra cash to be able to line your riggers up more accurately to the depth or is this overkill? I think it's an awesome idea, and I'd love to hear some feedback-- you can of course read more up on this in the Furuno manual for the 1150, but user experience always tends to read easier

Let me know what you guys think! Thanks, and have a great weekend!

Prop Blast · 05-28-2009, 02:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PROFINITY

PB- Thank you for the reply. I have owned Furuno equipment (FF's & radar) before and have used the NavNet stuff and like it. I already some some familiarity with it. Would you buy the unit again or something else. I really like Furuno FF's.

I like the unit. I wish the screen was a 8" screen, with more height. The only other unit I considered in it's place was the RayMarine C-80 -- which is a digital unit.

The benefit of the added height is that when you "zoom" or "bottom lock" (and most of our fishing here in West Central FL is bottom structure focused), you get better separation on a taller screen. Here, off Tampa Bay, 1' and 2' ledges are honey holes, and finding those spots is key -- bottom lock is the only way to go.

PB

ReelyHooked716 · 06-05-2009, 12:18 PM

Bobby how do you feel about the Garmin GSD 22 with the transom mount transducer? I am a center console guy and was thinking about going for a 4208 with the GSD 22

CMBobby · 06-06-2009, 10:57 AM

Thanks for your questions ReelyHooked,

I think that the GSD22 on the 4208 works really well. The transom mount application you prefer is what is seen the most on center console boats, but also keep in mind that there are flush mount thru-hull transducers that could work for you as well. With the transom mount you will be using 500 watts of the sounders capabilities, but if you upgrade to the 1KW B164 flush style transducer you can utilize 1000 watts of that machine. Now this may be a bit much for your application, but I mention it just so you know it is out there.

The transom mount has worked fine for years, though, and many people stick by it. I'd say you really couldn't go wrong with that set up just so long as you are not expecting to obtain clear readings at 1000-1500 ft. If you are looking to get that deep with your sounder you should consider moving up to the 1KW B164 I mentioned above (or perhaps adjust your expectations

). The transom mount will get you pretty deep though, so if you doing depths at 4-800 feet you should have a pretty good experience.

Please let me know if you have any other questions. Thanks!

ReelyHooked716 · 06-08-2009, 07:27 AM

Bobby, I am currently running a Garmin 160 C fishfinder what would you say the major difference will be in the GSD 22 with the transom mount ducer? I only have a 22 footer and sail out of the Mansquan Inlet so my range will keep me at depths that the transom ducer will be just fine. I would love to travel to depths of 800 feet plus but at the same time I need to make it back to port.

Thanks

CMBobby · 06-08-2009, 05:33 PM

ReelyHooked,

The primary advantage is the implemented digital technology. The digital technology that is built in helps filter out unnecessary blips that may occur and keeps you focused on the fish. You can locate the fish easier because with the GSD22 it's not necessary to interpret arcs trying to determine whether an arc is a fish or not-- the digital sounder spots the air bladder of the fish and paints it on your screen so you know you're looking at a fish and not a log or debris. This can be especially helpful when you have fish on the sea floor or where a fish may be around a lot of surrounding environmental elements like vegetation.

There are also other advantages such as a much better screen resolution than the FF160, more colors displayed on the screen, which means easier discrimination of targets, whether it be fish, structure, or sunken debris. The color palettes can be changed, too, the display runs much smoother, and is overall much more ascetically pleasing.

There are more reasons to upgrade, but I think these points above are the biggest practical reasons for upgrading. Please let me know if you have any further questions or if you need me to explain anything more extensively. Thanks, and have a great day!

jethompson · 06-10-2009, 12:14 PM

I have a Garmin 4212 with the gs-22 and a transom mount Airmar ducer while I love the GPS portion and the radar is decent I hate my F/F it will not read bottom when on the move and it has alot of surface clutter I was on my buddies boat the other day doing 30knts in 200 feet of water and his furuno 582 read bottom and marked fish like we were sitting still he has a thru hull with fairing block. So my dilema is do I purchase the B-164 1kw ducer and bore the 4" hole in the bottom of my boat in hopes it will enhance the performance of my garmin F/F or do I purchase a seperate machine like the Furuno 620 or 585. So I guess my question is should I attemp to upgrade my garmin or get a new unit also if I do purchase a B-164 ducer and I am still unhappy with performance and decide to go witht he furuno do they make an adapter to go from Garmin plu to Furuno plug. Thanks Jim

Prop Blast · 06-10-2009, 12:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jethompson

I have a Garmin 4212 with the gs-22 and a transom mount Airmar ducer while I love the GPS portion and the radar is decent I hate my F/F it will not read bottom when on the move and it has alot of surface clutter ... Thanks Jim

Jim,

I'm guessing one of two things is causing your FF to not read the bottom underway and to show "a lot of surface clutter".

1. Your transom mount transducer is mounted improperly/in a bad location.

2. You are running your FF in the "Auto" mode, with the gain and sensitivity settings determined by default Garmin settings and not compatible with the sea conditions you operate in.

For #1, if the transducer is not getting "clean" water running under it; i.e. it's mounted too close to the engine's running gear/lower unit or there is a thru hull, trim tab nearby, the transducer can't get a clear shot to the water. So it may just be a matter of relocating the tranduder to a better location.

For #2, it's a matter of working your way through the owners manual and finding the "Auto" on/off switch and changing over to manual. You will then need to set the FF "Gain" and "Sensitivity" settings, but that's not hard -- Bobby can give you some pointers on that.

PB

CMBobby · 06-11-2009, 05:56 PM

PB makes some good points. Location of your transducer is absolutely vital to it performing properly. This something you can easily check-- you can visit http://www.airmar.com and check out their installation guide and see if you have your P66 TM transducer mounted properly. Just click through marine and then fishfinders and select your brand-- it'll take you to a list where you can choose your transducer (P66). There will be PDF install guides in case you have misplaced yours.

The settings might also be a factor-- gain can help filter out that surface clutter you've got, but you turn it down too low and you won't see the targets under you, so you have to find that happy medium for each situation.

Also, if you have a lot of temperature shifts in your area where you may have more growth at the surface of wherever you are boating then that too can cause an unusual reading. The Garmin tech's can try to help you with that, but it's likely that you're just going to have to play around with it a little if that's your problem.

There could also be something faulty-- this would require you to trouble-shoot with Garmin's tech's, and while they surely can help you out, you need to understand that boating season is well under way and so hold times may be long. I would check out the things you can manage on your own first, and that way you understand your system's installation a little better and already have some good info for Garmin if you do need their techs.

I hope this helps-- and if you have any other questions just post it on the board. It is busy season for us as well, so I hope you'll accept my apologies for not responding quickly, and don't forget that you can always give us a call for something immediate.

Thanks PB for helping keep the discussion board alive and for having taken the time to respond to Jethompson. Tomorrow-- a new topic regarding fish-finders.. unless someone beats me to it!

Feel free to keep posting your questions!