I need some opinions.... - The Hull Truth

Tom Bare · 08-01-2006, 02:32 PM

I have a good friend who owns a house on Hatteras and was thinking about selling it since he can never get down there.

I am think about suggesting to him that he set it up as a "fishing camp" similar to a hunting lodge or camp.

Here's where I'd like some feedback; {and I am NOT soliciting for investors/participants]....
Do you think it would be a good and FAIR idea to get 10 to 20 people to give him $1,000 each per year and get a key to the house?

The house is about 3000 square feet, appraised for almost 600K, is completely remodeled and sleeps 12. There's a dock behind it albeit only 18" at low tide. Plenty of parking for trailers, etc and only 3 miles to Teach's Lair.

What do you guys think? Think it would be a good idea to get some fishermen to put up a G each to have access to the house year round? The way I figure it, one or two trips to Hatteras would cost a grand or so in motel, etc.

Thanks for the feedback!
Tom.

thubert57 · 08-01-2006, 02:42 PM

It doesn't sound like near enough money to get (for him) for what he is giving up. The idea is a sound one. What kind of assurances would he have that the place didn't get torn up though? Would the participants be an orginization? Just a couple of questions to ponder.

Contractor · 08-01-2006, 02:50 PM

Just a couple of things to think about:

How will you handle who gets to use it when? Set it up like a time share?

Who pays the taxes and homeowners insurance?

Who pays for repairs to the house?

Do you all just split the utility bills?

Sounds like it could be a cool idea once you work out all the details.

Fish Magician · 08-01-2006, 02:52 PM

Increase the number by 10 and multiply the $ by 10 and you might scrape it out. The damage to the place would never offset his investment/loss.

markaddis · 08-01-2006, 03:01 PM

It's a great idea that is feasible. It just depends on how tolerant your friend is. From an owner standpoint and been in on deals like this, I'll give you the pros / cons:

PROS
Tax Deduction
Use whenever you want
Retaining an upward investment

Cons
Find 10-20 people that will definitely get along
Find 10-20 people that will care for the place to your standards
Unplanned repair / expenses
Chasing down people for money
Planning for next year (who wants in / out)

Considerations also fall around covering the expenses of the home such as any money owed, utilities (which are high on HI), insurance, and flood insurance (mandatory in Dare County). Lose a heat pump in the middle of July and all of a sudden you have 15 people paying for the house who are p.o.'ed, your financial planning for the year is at risk, and you may be shelling money out of your own pocket.

Have dabbled in real estate in that area for years owning family and summer rental homes. It's a great idea, but if it were me sitting on a $600k place (paid for or not) that I could no longer use, it would have a "For Sale" sign on it. Through rentalsI learned a lot from taking money from other people for the use of something I owned.

Tom Bare · 08-01-2006, 03:15 PM

He owns the place outright and would not be doing to generate revenue ergo a true rental property. He would only looking to pay the taxes, maintenance and upkeep.

My thought would be to distribute via email a ca lender and everyone could get together and work out times, etc. Remember, it is big enough to have more than one group of fishermen there at a time.

We [he and I] would choose the people who would participate so as to minimize damage to the place.

The owner thinks he will use the house in a few years and thus this idea. If he can get the carrying costs covered, or at least helped, he likes the idea of holding it much better.

Thanks, keep 'em coming!
Tom

Tom Bare · 08-01-2006, 03:19 PM

Oh....
Participants would stroke a check for a grand and get a key. The next grand would be due in 365 days or they give the key back.

All maintenance, repairs, taxes, et al are paid by the owner. The participants would be only responsible for picking up after themselves i.e. wash the sheets and dishes before they leave.

That's the beauty of it for the fishermen: They have zero liability other than their opportunity cost i.e. if they pay the money and never use the place. They would be responsible for nothing with respect to the house itself other than the above common sense, respect for others issues.

HOTSPOT · 08-01-2006, 03:23 PM

It is a good "idea," but I think his place will get trashed over time. Most fish camps are simple and hard to destroy.

ClarkLLC · 08-01-2006, 04:26 PM

And there goes your insurance rate...up and up......are you going to allow paying friends to bring guest ???...ching...ching..........and you expect fishierman and hunters to clean up after themselves..
.......ain't gonna happen.........

Now.......2 grand a year per/individual......and not unreasonalbe....hire a "care taker"....year round...
(part time)...this will insure damage control and repairs.......redo your home owners or have waivers signed......let the guest bring their own sleeping bags/sheets and towels....you are only supplying the place to sleep..............actually 3 grand a year for year round access is really not outlandish...(only $250 p/month).......once a year......ladies w/end........once a/year.......youth w/end.....and during the spring......."spring frolic" for all who will come and do clean up.....

The "care taker" is the key....sort of like an on site "director" of affairs............

Its a great concept and a real money maker if the maintenance/repairs are kept up etc....

just my 2 pennies worth........Oh and be sure to make it Boykin and Lab/Chessie friendly
(partial to my Boykins ...3....)

233 Double E · 08-01-2006, 04:30 PM

Holy Moly!

Surfer girl knows how to throw a PARTY!!!!

HeadHunt · 08-01-2006, 05:28 PM

I spend alot of time in the village and I have paid rent many times. I go there to fish and if there is one thing I have learned about fishing Hatteras, it's this:

If you own a boat under 30 feet, like me, you cannot plan offshore fishing trips too far in advance. You have to go on a spur of the moment, when the weather window is open and the bite is hot.

Now, if I was interested in fishing the sound or nearshore, the odds of having good weather to fish increase dramatically and I could plan trips in advance.

However, this plan sounds like a real deal for some very regular visitors. If it was my home, I would turn it over to one of the realty companies and rent it just enough to pay the bills. Those guys do alot for the money.

Good Luck,
Alan

capt hook · 08-01-2006, 05:35 PM

Sounds good to me!

I agree with HH. Why wouldn't he just let the real estate company rent it out?

capt. thunder · 08-01-2006, 10:41 PM

Its hard enough to deal with 1 or 2 renters. Does your friend really think he can deal with 10 to 20. Especially beer drinking, smelly fisherman (like me). I agree with SurferGirl, he should just sell it and not be bothered with the B.S.
Also think of all the aggravation he will have with his neighbors. When there are 10 extra cars and trailers in the neighborhood.

Hey Capt Hook, cool skull.

Tom Bare · 08-02-2006, 03:51 PM

surfer girl,
We obviously "run in different circles." Thanks for everyone's input and thoughts, there were some real good points and ideas. The one point I failed to mention is that the people who will participate are of the means to buy the house if they wanted to, and will know the owner personally. Each would be "grown up" enough to respect other people's property. We are talking about middle-aged men not kids, and around here at least, people do have respect for others and know the value of a good thing.

He won't put it in a rental program for the above reason specifically ergo no control over who uses it. Like I mentioned, he just wants to defray some of the operating expenses like taxes and also share a good thing with some friends.

Thanks again guys and girls, I appreciate the help!

Tom

Southern Fried · 08-02-2006, 04:34 PM

Tom,

I think it's a good idea and would work out great for the right group of guys.

just let me know if the wheel gets rolling

RI Builder · 08-02-2006, 05:08 PM

Quote:

Tom Bare - 8/1/2006 2:19 PM

Oh....
Participants would stroke a check for a grand and get a key. The next grand would be due in 365 days or they give the key back.

All maintenance, repairs, taxes, et al are paid by the owner. The participants would be only responsible for picking up after themselves i.e. wash the sheets and dishes before they leave.

That's the beauty of it for the fishermen: They have zero liability other than their opportunity cost i.e. if they pay the money and never use the place. They would be responsible for nothing with respect to the house itself other than the above common sense, respect for others issues.

I thought it was a bad idea when I read the first post and downgraded it to a horrible idea when I read the one quoted above.

Your friend takes all the risk and maintenance and has ZERO guaranteed alone time in his OWN house - and for what a lousy 10-20K per annum? Sorry, if I were the owner - risk/reward comes no where near the litmus test.

08-02-2006, 06:18 PM

Insane idea....hire a rental company!!!

ScottS · 08-04-2006, 12:38 PM

At $20,000 per year on a $600,000 house your friend would only make a 3 percent return. And that doesn't include his expenses, which will be much higher if the house is getting almost constant use from 20 different people. Yet he would be risking much more liability for lawsuits and damage to the house? Come on, even CDs pay are paying a better rate than that.

dawiggs · 08-06-2006, 12:21 PM

Tom,
No, No It will not work.. Too much Risk and no Reward. Take it from me, friends and family are the worst renters... If he does not want to utilize a rental company, he can schedule renters himself and therefore control who comes and goes. A good point was made about a house that is available on short notice. He can advertise on this Board, NC Waterman, etc...

Regards

superstriper · 08-06-2006, 01:38 PM

you work it like a time share program, with someone coming in to clean up or inspect after each person has the place. you give a local rental co. a few buck to manage the idea and keep an eye on everybody.
the initial fee gets you the week, first come first serve on picking the week, and you pay a small maintenance fee for clean up.
you get it set up and let me know I am in. onec its set up the people can swap weeks with other parties, if worked right it can happen.