No More Selling Grouper Snapper.... Screwed Again - The Hull Truth

strikezone 1 · 03-09-2008, 09:36 PM

Well it looks like some of the few commercial fisherman with grouper snapper permits may have finally won.
I guess the rest of us who have a commercial license will have to subsidize them. Look at the attached file.http://www.safmc.net/Portals/6/Libra...Summ110807.pdf
basically the deal is if you do not have a grouper snapper permit you will no longer be able to sell with just a standard commercial license. The small guys like us do not even put a dent in the sales. It's the bigger guys who are raping the bottom. We can't help the fact that fuel is high and it's hard for you to make a living. We are all being screwed no question. Maybe since fuel is high it's time to change careers.

Why penalize us so the price of fish will go up since there is a limited amount of grouper snapper licenses are available. And buying two endorsements to get one ... are you kidding, who has the money for that. 8000.00 Now new high bidder market will go into effect and go sky high. He who has a grouper snapper permit will be king and didtate to the wholesale outlets what they are going to pay for fish. Since there is less competition in the market. If I had a license I would now have the power.

Everyone who has a state commercial license call the representatives and raise hell about this unfair and unjust act. We should not be in the subsidizing business. If we say nothing about this it is going to get shoved down our trout.

Give us the $3,000 dollars we have invested in our commercial license, because taking away our ability to sell is the same as stealing! Cut back the harvest limits that the grouper snapper permit holders have and you will see the fishery come back! But they want stand for that!

I am pissed this is bull shit.

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galebert · 03-10-2008, 07:12 AM

Sorry no one cares . The rec guy thinks it is going to help him to be able to catch one now. there is a thread that is on this page no one has hit it since last wed.
My under standing they cutting the limit to 3 per pearson. Not much to go after forr 250 in gas.
We need to give them another soulution . May be seasons on the fish . When they are spawning would be good Idea . The gags are shut down right no, the ameber jack's next month . Lets do it with all the grouper . Don't stop there don't even let the rec guys fish for them or target them . Give them a chance . Do this with all fish. It seems to work well with the dear herds. WE know how they populate , fish has millons of babys instead of 1 or 2 . They would have a better chance . Just a thought. CJ 20 mako 175 suz

yknot fishing · 03-10-2008, 08:06 AM

Gaqlebert install spellcheck! It does suck that our rights have been taken away to fish for and sell grouper. The problem is that the next fish will be kings, them tuna, dolphin, and wahoo. I catch very few grouper compared to professional commercial fisherman, but I still pay taxes, ins, equipment and fuel. It is nice to come in an get $100 or so against my fishing bill. Some say that the professional commercial fisherman is making his living and paying his mortgage with fish, and I agree, but the rec fisherman is NOT taking money away from him. Together we are both killing the grouper/snapper population, only he is bringing home 1000's of pounds per trip and I/we are bringing 10's of pounds per trip. The only answer is to stop fishing for one or two yrs and let the population increase, increase the size limit, or wait for gas to hit $4.00. Stopping would increase the population until the fishery was opened again, at that point the commercial guys would again wipe the population out. Increasing the size limit would drive the retail price up and make me think twice about going 30-45 miles out if I knew the larger fish might not be there, and if gas goes to $4.00 no one will be able to afford to fish so the commercial guys will be bankrupt.
I did hate the way the meetings were handled and this law was forced down the state licence guys throats. Seemed the discussion was made before the meetings. Just my thoughts, don't get upset!

seasea · 03-10-2008, 10:47 AM

you said it yknot...........its rediculous

Libra · 03-10-2008, 12:27 PM

I suspect the marina gas is at/near the $4.00 mark already. Just a side thought. These rights to sell are only being taken away from the rec/semi commercial guys (not the ones with the fed permits). Most of this group has full time jobs and simply try to supplement thier expenses by selling a few fish. Flip the coin now...don't lots of the truely commercial guys also have side jobs? Maybe in real estate, construction, ect. , but hey thats ok. One could say that they are taking away income/employment from us,, but thats ok??? Help me understand. Isn't this a double standard?

yknot fishing · 03-10-2008, 02:50 PM

Next we will need to have a general contractor buy our 2x4's from Lowes, since we are taking his lively hood away by building my own deck!!!

galebert · 03-10-2008, 05:54 PM

It's a natural resource you don't have the right

galebert · 03-11-2008, 06:51 AM

This always the response I get from non commercial fisherman. I own a king permit . Talked to a few full time commercial fisherman on the Island. They all say piss , moaning and stopping your feet is not going to work . We need a solution to give to the board. I don't know these people tel. #s but think helbent does . This people need to have there phone ringing off the hook . Dinner time would be the best time for these #s are there home #s not work. So are the addresses there home address. They need mail bags of post cards or letters on there front step. Seems to be a little dangerous to me for these people to list their home address seeing there taking so much money out of our pockets. Just what I have found out researching about how things work. Y- knot I fish don't teach spelling sorry but some times get in a rush don't have time for spell check . CJ

03-11-2008, 10:07 AM

Where does the "rec fisherman" fit into this? You are not a "rec fisherman" if you hold a NC Commercial Fishing License. You are a commercial fisherman that is bound by rec limits. The reason for this is the fisheries said it was easier not having to enforce a 3rd quota and creel bag limit. Don't take my word for it, look up the description in the NC Assembly paperwork. You are not a rec angler. That is the reason that your quota is applied to the commercial quota. It is a play on words to involve the "rec" aspect into it. Several of us have proposed the review of "economic impact" to the council and the decision for taking away the sales privilege has been delayed until June for review of the impact to Fla and NC. We will see how it plays out then.

As for the stock assessment, we have also proposed a pilot program for the collection of data using stationary underwater video cameras. If the funding goes thru, it will be the first of its kind in the South Atlantic to help as a supplemental system to give more information about the fish stocks in their natural habitat for future management.

In the meantime, keep your fingers crossed that we don't loose our "right to sell".

03-11-2008, 10:09 AM

Quote:

galebert - 3/10/2008 7:54 PM

It's a natural resource you don't have the right

What is this supposed to mean?

sharkie1211 · 03-11-2008, 02:15 PM

Quote:

reel fishaholic - 3/11/2008 12:07 PM

Where does the "rec fisherman" fit into this? You are not a "rec fisherman" if you hold a NC Commercial Fishing License. You are a commercial fisherman that is bound by rec limits. The reason for this is the fisheries said it was easier not having to enforce a 3rd quota and creel bag limit. Don't take my word for it, look up the description in the NC Assembly paperwork. You are not a rec angler. That is the reason that your quota is applied to the commercial quota. It is a play on words to involve the "rec" aspect into it. Several of us have proposed the review of "economic impact" to the council and the decision for taking away the sales privilege has been delayed until June for review of the impact to Fla and NC. We will see how it plays out then.

As for the stock assessment, we have also proposed a pilot program for the collection of data using stationary underwater video cameras. If the funding goes thru, it will be the first of its kind in the South Atlantic to help as a supplemental system to give more information about the fish stocks in their natural habitat for future management.

In the meantime, keep your fingers crossed that we don't loose our "right to sell".

That's the best explanation I've heard from anyone yet! Although I have 1 fed. sn/gr permit, I have other boats too and this will affect us here in Fl. as well...

galebert · 03-11-2008, 05:34 PM

reel fish just try to get some atention to the subject. That is what was told to me in another thread . Just needed some reaction . I was there the other night at the meeting. Hear there was talk that our senator and congess rep didn't know this was happen . Think they are getting ready to get involved . Just herd . CJ

dubbs · 03-12-2008, 09:10 AM

Here is an email I recieved from the safmc:

Council Moves Forward to End Overfishing of Snapper Grouper Species

Management options for vermilion snapper and gag grouper will go to public hearings in May

During its March meeting in Jekyll Island, Georgia, members of the South Atlantic Council continued to fine tune a list of fishery management alternatives required to reduce harvest and end overfishing for vermilion snapper and gag grouper, two economically important species in the snapper grouper management complex. Under the Magnuson-Stevens Fishery Conservation and Management Reauthorization Act, the Council must end overfishing within a one year period once overfishing is identified. Stock assessment results for gag and vermilion snapper were received in June 2007, prompting the development of Amendment 16 to the Snapper Grouper Fishery Management Plan (FMP). The Council considered public input received on management alternatives proposed in Amendment 16 during public scoping earlier this year.

Management alternatives under consideration in Amendment 16 include: (1) a gag spawning closure January – April that applies to both recreational and commercial sectors. This includes all shallow water groupers (black grouper, red grouper, scamp, red hind, rock hind, yellowmouth grouper, tiger grouper, yellowfin grouper, grasby, and coney); (2) a gag commercial quota, that when reached, would prohibit the harvest and possession of gag and all other shallow water groupers: (3) two separate quotas for gag (one for the Carolinas and another for Georgia and Florida); and (4) modifications to the gag and black grouper aggregate bag limit. Management measures for vermilion snapper include seasonal closures, two commercial quotas occurring at different times of the year, and adjustments to the size and bag limits. Additional alternatives being considered include exclusion of the captain and crew on for-hire vessels from possession of the bag limit for shallow water groupers and vermilion snapper, a requirement for vessels to carry dehooking and venting tools, and the use of circle hooks. Alternatives for interim commercial and recreational allocations are also included in the document. The Council chose their preferred alternatives to take to public hearings in early May. To obtain a copy of the public hearing document, contact the Council office.

The Council moved forward with developing management alternatives in Amendment 17 to the Snapper Grouper FMP after considering comments received during public scoping. As outlined in the Magnuson-Stevens Reauthorization Act, the Council must establish Annual Catch Limits (ACLs) for the ten snapper grouper species experiencing overfishing, which must be implemented beginning in 2010. The ACLs apply to both commercial and recreational fisheries and include Accountability Measures (AMs) for ensuring that the catch limits are not exceeded. Amendment 17 establishes ACLs, AMs, alternatives to reduce bycatch, and other measures to protect snapper grouper stocks. Public hearings for Amendment 17 are currently scheduled for October 2008.

The Council will have to address overfishing for red snapper as well, based on reports from the recent stock assessment. As a result, the Council removed red snapper as a species for consideration in Amendment 17 and will address management measures necessary to end overfishing in a separate amendment. The Council will solicit public comment on management options for red snapper during public scoping to be held in conjunction with public hearings for Amendment 16 in May.

Other Actions

The Council delayed taking final action on Snapper Grouper Amendment 15B until the Council's June 2008 meeting. The amendment includes measures to prohibit the sale of fish caught under the recreational bag limit. The decision came after reviewing comments received from fishermen and in light of new economic data on the magnitude of bag-limit sales in North Carolina by non-federally permitted fishermen fishing legally with a state commercial license. Similar data for South Carolina, Georgia, and Florida is also being compiled. A Supplemental Environmental Impact Statement (SEIS) will be completed to incorporate this new economic data analysis and will include a 45 day comment period between now and the Council’s June 8-13 meeting in Orlando, Florida. The Council’s preferred management alternative would prohibit the sale of bag-limit caught fish. The non-federally permitted sale of bag-limit snapper grouper species counts against shrinking commercial quotas.

The Council chose to continue education and outreach efforts regarding Limited Access Privilege (LAP) Programs for the commercial snapper grouper fishery and explore options for implementing a program for the golden tilefish fishery. The decision came after hearing a report from its Limited Access Privilege (LAP) Program Exploratory Workgroup and reviewing input received during public scoping meetings.

The Council also approved the Fishery Ecosystem Plan and Comprehensive Amendment for public hearings. The Comprehensive Amendment would establish deepwater coral areas as Habitat Areas of Particular Concern, thus providing protection for these unique and valuable marine ecosystems.

Through a series of public meetings, the Council will conduct public hearings for Snapper Grouper Amendment 16 and the Fishery Ecosystem Plan and Comprehensive Amendment. Public scoping will also be conducted for management measures to address ovefishing of red snapper. The meetings will be held May 7th in Homestead, FL; May 9th in Port Canaveral, FL; May 12th in Brunswick, GA; May 13th in N. Charleston, SC and May 15th in New Bern, NC. Additional information regarding the meetings will be publicized as it becomes available.

The next meeting of the Council is scheduled for June 8-13, 2008 in Orlando, FL. For additional information regarding Council meetings, including briefing book materials and a summary of the motions from the March 2008 meeting, visit www.safmc.net or contact the Council office.

The South Atlantic Fishery Management Council, one of eight regional councils, conserves and manages fish stocks from three to 200 miles offshore of North Carolina, South Carolina, Georgia and east Florida.

Rough&Ready · 03-12-2008, 01:41 PM

Quote:

strikezone 1 - 3/9/2008 8:36 PM

Well it looks like some of the few commercial fisherman with grouper snapper permits may have finally won.
I guess the rest of us who have a commercial license will have to subsidize them.

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From what I see nobody wins, they are making cuts all across the board.
Your getting cut because it will make there #'s look better.
Here's the link to what they intend to do>>>> http://www.moore.org/init-newsitem.aspx?id=2062 They want to squash the little guy.

Blue_Moon · 03-12-2008, 05:16 PM

Thanks Dubbs. I would suggest we all send written comments on the SEIS and get everyone to attend the public hearings. I attended the last one on 15B in Morehead and was shocked at the low turnout from the rec types. The comm types appeared in full force as usual. I had to leave right after my comment, I couldn't take the bs.

galebert · 03-12-2008, 05:17 PM

Rough and ready that is an old study . They are showing inaccurate findings . There are some news going one right now . No one will lose if alittle common since is used

lrfisher · 03-12-2008, 06:12 PM

This mess is going to kill the value of a NC permit to sell.

lrfisher · 03-12-2008, 06:13 PM

sorry - duplicate post due to IB "flood control"... ???? This crap is getting old!!

galebert · 03-12-2008, 06:18 PM

thats already happen .Just wait till it gets out . Don't think many people know what is happing . Fresh fish at the beach is also a thing of the past if this goes threw.

yknot fishing · 03-12-2008, 06:36 PM

One thing I always though was that the fish house loved to buy my fish, he paid me less that the full time guys, so he made a few more bucks, I made a few bucks for gas, tackle, electronics, slip rent, ect........
Now the fish house will pay a higher price for the fish since there is no competition (lesser priced state licensed sellers) which means the price at the market will go up, less people eating fresh fish, restaurants going out of business, fish houses going out of business, commercial fisherman going out of business.
Maybe I will keep my licence cause in 5-7 yrs I may retire from my full time job and sell fish by the road since no one will be able to get fresh fish!