Some basic statistics on boat sales - The Hull Truth

auguste · 02-04-2009, 07:15 AM

Thought that I would pass this along to you so that you can maybe rethink your sales approach and increase the chances of selling your boats . . . hope this helps you

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Talked to a broker over the weekend and he sent me an analysis that he and twoassociates did (no I can not give you his name)

Total sales through brokerage firms have dropped between 25% and 70% depending on the broker's reputation, location, and how aggressive they are in getting their clients to set a reasonable selling price for their boats

Of the last500 boats sold throughout the USA by brokers, and where the asking price was in the range of $75,000 to $150,000

- these boats had on average been listed for more than 4 months

- the seller had accepted an offer that was 29% below his asking price

He told me that these numbers are just indicators of what has been happening . . . he also said that larger more expensive boats are moving much slower and that they were also having to reduce their asking prices significantly

He also said that those individuals who say they are not in a rush and stick to their high prices (compared to what the market is selling for) will be holding their boats for a long long time

PS: Don'tget pissed at the broker, its the market and the resulting crash that is doing this.

ColdBusted · 02-04-2009, 07:43 AM

That's pretty much on the money. And this will raise some feathers I'm sure but you can blame the individual who bought the boat and the banks for the way things are. Over the last 10 or so years all you had to do was have marginal credit and a job to buy a boat. I would bet over 90% were done with no money down and at least 15 yr terms. So now that the market has crashed, the people who finance can't sell their boat for what the payoff is, it's not that they are asking to much, they are asking what they need to pay it off. Unfortunately, if they didn't have money to put down, they don't have it to pay down the loan either.. So they are stuck with two choices, keep the boat or let it be repo'd. There are the ones on here who will chime in and say if you can't pay cash for your toys then your stupid or whatever, but most people where living the American dream and financing things is and was a big part of that dream. SO the big question is, what does Joe the boater do? If he is a buyer, he is in to make wonderful deals over the next year or so. If he is a seller, he's just plain screwed if he financed a 100%. The days of perfect credit for the majority of our citizens is over.

OK all you cash buyers who can pay outright, have at it! LOL

Mully · 02-04-2009, 07:43 AM

Good info, thanks much.

Sprockets · 02-04-2009, 07:52 AM

Good Info.

Cold Busted is correct. With any depreciating asset, you will be putting money down when you buy it or if you sell it within the first 3 or more years depending on how long you keep it. The ones in the worst shape are the ones who put zero or little down and financed over 10 years. They won't be in the black for 6-7 years in this market.

jbonnet · 02-04-2009, 07:55 AM

My brother in-laws 2002 32' Luhrs has been for sale for over a year and a half and not one person has asked to even look at the boat.
He has it priced right but the market really sucks up by me..

auguste · 02-04-2009, 08:18 AM

Quote:

jbonnet - 2/4/2009 9:55 AM My brother in-laws 2002 32' Luhrs has been for sale for over a year and a half and not one person has asked to even look at the boat. He has it priced right but the market really sucks up by me..

I agree that the market is difficult . . . but there is another dimension . . . your brother-in-law has a Luhrs and its reputation has dropped over the last few years . . . so he has two problems, the market and the boat brand he is trying to sell

In today's market that means that his boat sitting beside a Hatteras or contender or yellowfin (when correctly priced) will draw a lot less attention

By the way, your brother is not the only one in his situation. There are a number of guys here on THT trying to sell boats that are not getting and real offers . . . many posts here are supporting fellow THTers (which is a great thing) but no or few offers (no so good). Look at the date that many of these for sale posts were initiated. Some are 18 months old

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Holy Smoke · 02-04-2009, 08:48 AM

Quote:

jbonnet - 2/4/2009 6:55 AM

My brother in-laws 2002 32' Luhrs has been for sale for over a year and a half and not one person has asked to even look at the boat.
He has it priced right but the market really sucks up by me..

I hate to do this but, Your Brother in-laws boat is not priced right, if it was it would be gone already.

People do not need to buy boats PERIOD..... so unless someone thinks they are getting a screaming deal
they are not going to buy.

Example since you seem to be into Trans-Ams Lets Say I have a 1970 TA 400/4sp ram air iv with full PHS
papers. If i listed that car for 45k maybe someone who is collecting TA might wan to take a look see,

Drop the price to 30 and maybe a few others might want to look....at 20k it would be gone, so what was the
car worth ......

Answer: what ever someone is willing to pay for it today.... not what NADA.BUC,Kelly or what the last one sold for.

I dont care if you paid 100k for your Contender/Regulator/Yellowfin until its priced where someone feels he is getting a once in a lifetime deal it's not moving in this market.

Just in case your wondering I have sold 2 twin engine offshore fishing boats in the last 18 months both
at prices that made me cry, however both are gone and the new owners happy.

RamblinOn · 02-04-2009, 09:21 AM

Thats funny that this thread was started, there is a boat here on THT that I made an offer on, offer was right around 28% off asking price, the boat has been listed for
over a year, and the owner said he was firm on his price, and he was not in a hurry to sell. If you ask me if you can get that close to what you are asking and are not upside down,
let it roll.

auguste · 02-04-2009, 09:28 AM

Quote:

RamblinOn - 2/4/2009 11:21 AM Thats funny that this thread was started, there is a boat here on THT that I made an offer on, offer was right around 28% of asking price, the boat has been listed for over a year, and the owner said he was firm on his price, and he was not in a hurry to sell. If you ask me if you can get that close to what you are asking and are not upside down, let it roll.

Am I right to assume tha you offered 28% OFF of the asking price and not 28%OF the asking price?

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RamblinOn · 02-04-2009, 09:39 AM

Sorry edited the post, yes that was 28% off the asking price.

captainrocky · 02-04-2009, 10:14 AM

I realize that brand plays a significant role in resale value. But would it be safe to say that a 2-3 year old boat in today's market should sell for approximately 50-55% of the purchase price?

auguste · 02-04-2009, 10:39 AM

Quote:

RamblinOn - 2/4/2009 11:39 AM Sorry edited the post, yes that was 28% off the asking price.

Not a problem . . . no need to be sorry . . . after all it was just 'one letter'

auguste · 02-04-2009, 10:48 AM

Quote:

captainrocky - 2/4/2009 12:14 PM I realize that brand plays a significant role in resale value. But would it be safe to say that a 2-3 year old boat in today's market should sell for approximately 50-55% of the purchase price?

The following is my observation and it is not meant to slight anyone

I have been searching and what I have observed is that the smaller the boat the bigger the discount seems to be expected by prospective buyers

Also, that big well respected boat brands e.g. some Carolina built vessels and other Hatteras and Bertram etc. command a much higher resale price (% of original purchase price) than some of the less sought after brands such as Luhrs and Bayliner etc.

Where my heart really goes out is for the guys who totally refurbished a nice boat and are not able to get some of their investment back. They have done a great job, made the boat very reliable with new power etc. and buyers are unwilling to pay anywhere near the money that was put into the boat . . . they are looking at other boats and saying I can get that boat for half the price recognizing that the other boat is rougher around the edges and has older power . . . I guess that I am guilty of that as I search for a boat

Anyway, those are my personal observations, for what that is worth

ReelNauti · 02-04-2009, 10:52 AM

Here's an excerpt fronm an article in todays paper. It shows where the market is today

Business is slow at Comstock Yacht Sales & Marina in Brick, so owner Chip Gahr is ready to make a deal on three lines of boats that range from $85,000 to $1.5 million.

"If someone came in now with an open checkbook, they'd get about 25 to 35 percent off list price" for a boat in stock, Gahr said. Normally he sells his stock for as much as 20 percent off list, but additional savings will come from factory incentives.

And if a buyer needs an extra push, they'll throw in some extras, such as a radar-GPS-depth finder electronics package worth about $10,000.

"All three manufacturers will help us out," he said. "They never would do that before when things are flying good."

auguste · 02-04-2009, 11:00 AM

Quote:

ReelNauti - 2/4/2009 12:52 PM Here's an excerpt fronm an article in todays paper. It shows where the market is today Business is slow at Comstock Yacht Sales & Marina in Brick, so owner Chip Gahr is ready to make a deal on three lines of boats that range from $85,000 to $1.5 million. "If someone came in now with an open checkbook, they'd get about 25 to 35 percent off list price" for a boat in stock, Gahr said. Normally he sells his stock for as much as 20 percent off list, but additional savings will come from factory incentives. And if a buyer needs an extra push, they'll throw in some extras, such as a radar-GPS-depth finder electronics package worth about $10,000. "All three manufacturers will help us out," he said. "They never would do that before when things are flying good."

Good quote . . . I think that in 2 to 3 months when the weather gets warm all over the USA and Canada and the boats are still in the yard, that you will see a lot more of these advertisments, a lot lot more

And IF YOU OWN A USED BOAT you will have no choice but to follow suit . . . no choice what so ever

SOLUTION If you really want to sell then you should beat the crowd and bring prices in line with today's market . . . UNFORTUNATELY some sellers will be left with debt after they sell, but in the long run will they be better off . . . especially if the banks start chasing them for their money . . . I know that that decision will be hard for many but the chances of someone coming and paying 20 to 30% more for your boat than the exact same boat across town will probably not happen

Good luck everyone in coping with this terrible market

MacCTD · 02-04-2009, 11:37 AM

Interesting, within the last couple weeks I have stopped by and spoken to the local Edgewater and Grady White dealers, different dealers within 5 miles of each other, they both told me the same thing, sales are great, no different than years past for thier respective top line brands, they did say the lesser brands they sell have reduced sales.

auguste · 02-04-2009, 11:50 AM

Quote:

MacCTD - 2/4/2009 1:37 PM Interesting, within the last couple weeks I have stopped by and spoken to the local Edgewater and Grady White dealers, different dealers within 5 miles of each other, they both told me the same thing, sales are great, no different than years past for thier respective top line brands, they did say the lesser brands they sell have reduced sales.

I hear you, but I think that is what the dealers want you to hear . . . hoping they can encourage sales at higher prices

Why do I have my doubts, because so many boat builders have significantly cut back their production levels . . . if the two dealers are correct in what they are saying, then why would boat builders, even top end upper level boat builders, have severly cut back their production . . . I am not calling the two dealers you mention untruthful, but I have my doubts

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auguste · 02-04-2009, 11:54 AM

Quote:

auguste - 2/4/2009 1:50 PM

Quote:

MacCTD - 2/4/2009 1:37 PM Interesting, within the last couple weeks I have stopped by and spoken to the local Edgewater and Grady White dealers, different dealers within 5 miles of each other, they both told me the same thing, sales are great, no different than years past for thier respective top line brands, they did say the lesser brands they sell have reduced sales.

I hear you, but I think that is what the dealers want you to hear . . . hoping they can encourage sales at higher prices

Why do I have my doubts, because so many boat builders have significantly cut back their production levels . . . if the two dealers are correct in what they are saying, then why would boat builders, even top end upper level boat builders, have severly cut back their production . . . I am not calling the two dealers you mention untruthful, but I have my doubts

I think another bad sign (in addition to THTers having problems selling their boats) is that the total number of boats for sale on major sites has gone up significantly, and places like National Liqidators are having to rent slips at other marinas because of the high volume of foreclosed boats

But then maybe my analysis and observations are incorrect

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auguste · 02-04-2009, 11:56 AM

Quote:

auguste - 2/4/2009 1:54 PM

Quote:

auguste - 2/4/2009 1:50 PM

Quote:

MacCTD - 2/4/2009 1:37 PM Interesting, within the last couple weeks I have stopped by and spoken to the local Edgewater and Grady White dealers, different dealers within 5 miles of each other, they both told me the same thing, sales are great, no different than years past for thier respective top line brands, they did say the lesser brands they sell have reduced sales.

I hear you, but I think that is what the dealers want you to hear . . . hoping they can encourage sales at higher prices

Why do I have my doubts, because so many boat builders have significantly cut back their production levels . . . if the two dealers are correct in what they are saying, then why would boat builders, even top end upper level boat builders, have severly cut back their production . . . I am not calling the two dealers you mention untruthful, but I have my doubts

I think another bad sign (in addition to THTers having problems selling their boats) is that the total number of boats for sale on major sites has gone up significantly, and places like National Liqidators are having to rent slips at other marinas because of the high volume of foreclosed boats

But then maybe my analysis and observations are incorrect

MacCTD

I am not flaming you . . . just sharing different opinions and observations . . . everyone has good ideas to bring to the discussion . . . THANKS

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27outboard · 02-04-2009, 12:29 PM

THanks for this informative post. THere is so little fact and so much rumor on this subject. I've been looking hard and you've confirmed what my gut has been telling me.