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Old 10-25-2009, 08:07 PM
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All the screws are removed and 2 layers of glass on the bottom and 1 on the sides are put on.
We got the idea for flipflops from Tarbabies boat build threads. They are the first thing I put on when I get off work. That's Jeff in the picture.
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Old 10-26-2009, 05:42 PM
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Got Jeff's boat complete on the first layer on the sides. Started the second layer on mine. Got to get some more 1/4" ply to finish.
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Old 10-29-2009, 06:55 PM
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Got the second layer complete on one side of mine and halfway on the other. Going to drive to Raleigh tomorrow to pick up some more plywood as they didn't have any deliveries this week.
Plenty of room underneath to take the jig loose from the base for the flip. Also looks like the jig should come out pretty easy.
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Old 10-29-2009, 08:10 PM
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looking real nice. Got a question. On the sides. Could you get away with just one lay up of plywood and then 2 or 3 coats of biaxle glass and 1 matt? Inside just epoxyed?
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Old 10-29-2009, 10:23 PM
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What type of epoxy are you using? What are you using to fill the screw holes once you remove the screws? Your build has really sparked my interest, Id love to have that boat in a 26-27 foot model. Whats your plans for the inside?Seems like the easiest thing would be to have someone glass it with a chopper gun...
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Old 10-30-2009, 04:19 AM
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Not sure on the one layer on the sides. Maybe Gene from CBBoatworks will see this and answer.
The epoxy is a blend Gene had mixed for us. No need to fill the screw holes.They will fill from the glass job. 2 Layers of 1708 on the bottom and 1 layer on the sides.
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Old 10-30-2009, 06:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by parrott View Post
Not sure on the one layer on the sides. Maybe Gene from CBBoatworks will see this and answer.
The epoxy is a blend Gene had mixed for us. No need to fill the screw holes.They will fill from the glass job. 2 Layers of 1708 on the bottom and 1 layer on the sides.

Unless that is "magic" epoxy you had better fill the holes with thickened epoxy or you will have a total mess on your hands. Air in the holes will expand and you will have voids all over the place. Every coldmolded boatbuilder fills the holes with either thickened epoxy or wooden dowels of somekind. Why would you risk a catastrophe?

If the boat is small enough ( less than 18') you can get by with one layer but there is a trade off for everything. You will spend more time fairing the hull once it is glassed. Keep up the good work.
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Old 10-30-2009, 12:45 PM
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What size motor you thinking about powering these 2 with?
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Old 10-30-2009, 02:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tarbaby View Post
Unless that is "magic" epoxy you had better fill the holes with thickened epoxy or you will have a total mess on your hands. Air in the holes will expand and you will have voids all over the place. Every coldmolded boatbuilder fills the holes with either thickened epoxy or wooden dowels of somekind. Why would you risk a catastrophe?

If the boat is small enough ( less than 18') you can get by with one layer but there is a trade off for everything. You will spend more time fairing the hull once it is glassed. Keep up the good work.
Sounds good tarbaby. We will mix up some thick epoxy and fill all the holes. Remember this is our first boat and will accept any suggestions from knowledgeable builders. Can you pm me your location? I would really like to visit your shop sometime and see your beautiful works, especially your finished 21.
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Old 10-30-2009, 02:05 PM
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What size motor you thinking about powering these 2 with?
Looking at 150 4 stroke Yams or 175 suzukis. These boats are supposed to be light.
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Old 10-30-2009, 02:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by parrott View Post
Not sure on the one layer on the sides. Maybe Gene from CBBoatworks will see this and answer.
The epoxy is a blend Gene had mixed for us. No need to fill the screw holes.They will fill from the glass job. 2 Layers of 1708 on the bottom and 1 layer on the sides.

Donnie you do need to fill the screw holes with thicken epoxy before glassing.
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Old 10-30-2009, 06:36 PM
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Originally Posted by cbboatworks View Post
Donnie you do need to fill the screw holes with thicken epoxy before glassing.

Any answer as to why one could get away applying double to single plywood sides? I thinking of weight cut down,that is why I'm asking.
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Old 10-31-2009, 11:14 AM
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There are probably many people wondering about the same sorts of questions so we thought we'd write a detailed answer. (Sorry about the length)

First and foremost: You are certainly able to build your own boat any way you want.

However, let us give you some things to consider.

The cold-mold process is a proven process based on the ability to create a relatively light and strong core by:
  • laminating multiple layers of that core (in this case plywood)
  • in alternating directions
  • into a monocoque structure.
From Wikipedia: Monocoque, from Greek for single (mono) and French for shell (coque), is a construction technique that supports structural load by using an object's external skin as opposed to using an internal frame or truss that is then covered with a non-load-bearing skin. Monocoque construction was first widely used in aircraft in the 1930s. Structural skin or stressed skin are other terms for the same concept.

By the way, the primary purpose of the fiberglass on a cold-mold boat is not structural. It is for waterproofing. It encapsulates the core, inside and out. It also provides some amount of abrasion resistance.

Back to your question... If you build a boat from one layer of plywood, quite obviously you are not achieving a monocoque structure. So what exactly do you end up with? The answer is quite simply --- a fiberglass boat. Let me explain. A single layer of plywood, made up of strips, essentially provides uni-directional reinforcement. This is very much like C-Flex.

What is then required to create a sound boat is to develop a fiberglass laminating schedule that assumes that any unidirectional reinforcement like plywood (or C-Flex) isn't there at all. (This is no problem. There are many books on this topic.) Consider it as a male mold that just happens to end up glued to the boat.
Seriously. Ask Seemans Fiberglass, the makers of C-Flex, which, by the way has been in production since the early '70s.

Wait, you say. Plywood by nature has the grain running in alternating directions. Doesn't that, therefore, provide omni-directional reinforcement? Well, not exactly. While that is certainly true within each plywood strip, the strip itself forms a unidirectional reinforcing system. Only gluing the strips themselves in alternating directions in successive layers provides omni-directional reinforcement.

So... What then are the implications? If you are not an expert in hand-lamination, and most amateur builders wouldn't qualify, then the build-up of fiberglass (on a male mold) required for a "fiberglass" boat will require significantly more time fairing as correctly stated above by Tarbaby and quoted here:. "If the boat is small enough ( less than 18') you can get by with one layer but there is a trade off for everything. You will spend more time fairing the hull once it is glassed."

Now, the fundamental basis of your question was weight savings. Let's address that. It is well known that a cold-mold boat is one of the lightest construction methods. If you build a boat with a hybrid construction method - using one layer of plywood - and do it in a structurally sound manner by adding sufficient fiberglass - you actually end up with a heavier boat. Remember, you end up with a fiberglass boat with the mold glued to it. Virtually any commercially produced solid fiberglass boat is already heavier than any similar cold-mold boat.

There is another construction method that we haven't yet discussed. That is a fiberglass "cored" boat where the strength is derived from two structural layers of fiberglass separated by a core. This is the same method by which an I-Beam derives its strength. This method employs a different fiberglass lamination schedule specifically designed for this method. This is certainly fine... except... with plywood, you are using a core that is much heavier than that typically used for this method. You should use a closed cell foam designed for this method and you will achieve your weight savings but... probably only if you vacuum bag or possibly even infuse. These two processes carefully control the resin to fiberglass ratio; the most critical factor in strength / weight ratios. The only drawback will be cost. Check the prices for structural closed-cell foam and you will understand.

Now we really must apologize for the length and answer a question that comes up frequently but was not yet specifically asked here. The "chopper gun" question above is related however.

Question:

Why do I have to use more expensive epoxy resins in cold-mold construction when polyester-based resins are significantly cheaper?

Answer:

Epoxy resins have much better properties of elasticity and can handle and "match" those properties of the core material much better than the relatively brittle polyester-based resins. For this reason, they are very well suited to cold-mold. If you choose to use polyester resins (which are well suited for solid fiberglass lay-ups) rather than epoxies, the boat will likely suffer from delamination problems in relatively short order.

Hope this helps.

Last edited by cbboatworks2; 11-01-2009 at 06:17 AM.
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Old 11-01-2009, 02:23 PM
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Got a few hours in today. Finished the second layer of ply on Jeff's boat. Removed all the screws from my boat and puttied all the holes and any little areas. Hope to get some glass on next week.

Forgot the most important thing we did was to run a cable from Jeff's office so we can watch and listen to the football games!!!
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Last edited by parrott; 11-02-2009 at 04:16 AM.
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Old 11-03-2009, 06:46 AM
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cboatworks,I do understand lay ups and yes,I do see were you are coming with bydriectional build up and yes,I had worked with C-flex in the pass which is to much trouble do to sagging/extra flairing. But,with new cloths out,I think one could get away with one layer of plywood as a mold,then glass over. Weight,yes,I see were you are coming from on that point too!

Thanks for your write up,answer.
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Old 11-04-2009, 04:04 PM
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Not much exciting to report. The usual sanding,fairing, sanding, fairing-------------- Still very fulfilling tho. Lot's of talk between us on how to layout and finish the inside.
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Old 11-04-2009, 04:22 PM
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Before mounting the fuel tank and console,you might mount the motor/bracket,splash it,put a drum in the center and fill it with water to balance it out.

Also,are your planning to have any trim tabs? If so,think custom fitting them into the bottom and transom. That way you have a flush mount under the boat not sticking out the back. Way cool on a custom built boat.
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Old 11-06-2009, 07:05 AM
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Or you could use the Volvo QL tabs. Quite a few manufacturers using them now.
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Old 11-06-2009, 01:02 PM
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Quote:
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Or you could use the Volvo QL tabs. Quite a few manufacturers using them now.
Tom you can not be stealing my thunder like that. (Just kidding) The QL tabs is what I would recommend as well. Thanks for stoping by. Take care

Gene
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Old 11-10-2009, 07:20 PM
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Got some glass on the bottom and transom.
Also, you haven't lived until you grab one of those tools laying on the bow flair. Should have some good forearms and shoulder muscles before this is over
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