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Old 10-30-2009, 01:35 PM
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Originally Posted by parrott View Post
Not sure on the one layer on the sides. Maybe Gene from CBBoatworks will see this and answer.
The epoxy is a blend Gene had mixed for us. No need to fill the screw holes.They will fill from the glass job. 2 Layers of 1708 on the bottom and 1 layer on the sides.

Donnie you do need to fill the screw holes with thicken epoxy before glassing.
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Old 10-30-2009, 05:36 PM
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Donnie you do need to fill the screw holes with thicken epoxy before glassing.

Any answer as to why one could get away applying double to single plywood sides? I thinking of weight cut down,that is why I'm asking.
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Old 10-31-2009, 10:14 AM
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There are probably many people wondering about the same sorts of questions so we thought we'd write a detailed answer. (Sorry about the length)

First and foremost: You are certainly able to build your own boat any way you want.

However, let us give you some things to consider.

The cold-mold process is a proven process based on the ability to create a relatively light and strong core by:
  • laminating multiple layers of that core (in this case plywood)
  • in alternating directions
  • into a monocoque structure.
From Wikipedia: Monocoque, from Greek for single (mono) and French for shell (coque), is a construction technique that supports structural load by using an object's external skin as opposed to using an internal frame or truss that is then covered with a non-load-bearing skin. Monocoque construction was first widely used in aircraft in the 1930s. Structural skin or stressed skin are other terms for the same concept.

By the way, the primary purpose of the fiberglass on a cold-mold boat is not structural. It is for waterproofing. It encapsulates the core, inside and out. It also provides some amount of abrasion resistance.

Back to your question... If you build a boat from one layer of plywood, quite obviously you are not achieving a monocoque structure. So what exactly do you end up with? The answer is quite simply --- a fiberglass boat. Let me explain. A single layer of plywood, made up of strips, essentially provides uni-directional reinforcement. This is very much like C-Flex.

What is then required to create a sound boat is to develop a fiberglass laminating schedule that assumes that any unidirectional reinforcement like plywood (or C-Flex) isn't there at all. (This is no problem. There are many books on this topic.) Consider it as a male mold that just happens to end up glued to the boat.
Seriously. Ask Seemans Fiberglass, the makers of C-Flex, which, by the way has been in production since the early '70s.

Wait, you say. Plywood by nature has the grain running in alternating directions. Doesn't that, therefore, provide omni-directional reinforcement? Well, not exactly. While that is certainly true within each plywood strip, the strip itself forms a unidirectional reinforcing system. Only gluing the strips themselves in alternating directions in successive layers provides omni-directional reinforcement.

So... What then are the implications? If you are not an expert in hand-lamination, and most amateur builders wouldn't qualify, then the build-up of fiberglass (on a male mold) required for a "fiberglass" boat will require significantly more time fairing as correctly stated above by Tarbaby and quoted here:. "If the boat is small enough ( less than 18') you can get by with one layer but there is a trade off for everything. You will spend more time fairing the hull once it is glassed."

Now, the fundamental basis of your question was weight savings. Let's address that. It is well known that a cold-mold boat is one of the lightest construction methods. If you build a boat with a hybrid construction method - using one layer of plywood - and do it in a structurally sound manner by adding sufficient fiberglass - you actually end up with a heavier boat. Remember, you end up with a fiberglass boat with the mold glued to it. Virtually any commercially produced solid fiberglass boat is already heavier than any similar cold-mold boat.

There is another construction method that we haven't yet discussed. That is a fiberglass "cored" boat where the strength is derived from two structural layers of fiberglass separated by a core. This is the same method by which an I-Beam derives its strength. This method employs a different fiberglass lamination schedule specifically designed for this method. This is certainly fine... except... with plywood, you are using a core that is much heavier than that typically used for this method. You should use a closed cell foam designed for this method and you will achieve your weight savings but... probably only if you vacuum bag or possibly even infuse. These two processes carefully control the resin to fiberglass ratio; the most critical factor in strength / weight ratios. The only drawback will be cost. Check the prices for structural closed-cell foam and you will understand.

Now we really must apologize for the length and answer a question that comes up frequently but was not yet specifically asked here. The "chopper gun" question above is related however.

Question:

Why do I have to use more expensive epoxy resins in cold-mold construction when polyester-based resins are significantly cheaper?

Answer:

Epoxy resins have much better properties of elasticity and can handle and "match" those properties of the core material much better than the relatively brittle polyester-based resins. For this reason, they are very well suited to cold-mold. If you choose to use polyester resins (which are well suited for solid fiberglass lay-ups) rather than epoxies, the boat will likely suffer from delamination problems in relatively short order.

Hope this helps.

Last edited by cbboatworks2; 11-01-2009 at 05:17 AM.
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Old 11-03-2009, 05:46 AM
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cboatworks,I do understand lay ups and yes,I do see were you are coming with bydriectional build up and yes,I had worked with C-flex in the pass which is to much trouble do to sagging/extra flairing. But,with new cloths out,I think one could get away with one layer of plywood as a mold,then glass over. Weight,yes,I see were you are coming from on that point too!

Thanks for your write up,answer.
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Old 11-04-2009, 03:22 PM
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Before mounting the fuel tank and console,you might mount the motor/bracket,splash it,put a drum in the center and fill it with water to balance it out.

Also,are your planning to have any trim tabs? If so,think custom fitting them into the bottom and transom. That way you have a flush mount under the boat not sticking out the back. Way cool on a custom built boat.
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Old 11-06-2009, 06:05 AM
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Or you could use the Volvo QL tabs. Quite a few manufacturers using them now.
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Old 11-06-2009, 12:02 PM
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Or you could use the Volvo QL tabs. Quite a few manufacturers using them now.
Tom you can not be stealing my thunder like that. (Just kidding) The QL tabs is what I would recommend as well. Thanks for stoping by. Take care

Gene
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Old 11-11-2009, 04:21 AM
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Gene

Do you see anything we can use here? http://www.thehulltruth.com/fishing-...ial-glass.html

We have just enough 1708 to complete the outside of both boats.
Call me I see a few items you can use.
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Old 11-11-2009, 08:30 PM
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We have just enough 1708 to complete the outside of both boats.
Donnie,

What % waste factor do you think you will end up with for the glass on the outside?
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Old 11-12-2009, 04:44 AM
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Parrot.to help keep resin off the floor,lay out some cardboard boxes or felt paper.

Looking good and I hear you on those arms. Hows the itching?
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Old 11-12-2009, 04:23 PM
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Do the have the bigger model kits avalible?
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Old 11-13-2009, 06:07 AM
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Do the have the bigger model kits avalible?

Hello

We do have larger models, If interested take a look at or website www.cb-boatworks.com If you do not see what you are looking for we can design what you want. Thanks for asking.

Gene
www.cb-boatworks.com
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Old 11-14-2009, 11:04 AM
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this is something i have always wanted to do..very very interested in see how this build progresses...did you buy the jig or is it homemade? what does a jig like that go for? if i may ask what are you expecting to have into it $$wise by the end?
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Old 11-14-2009, 03:39 PM
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this is something i have always wanted to do..very very interested in see how this build progresses...did you buy the jig or is it homemade? what does a jig like that go for? if i may ask what are you expecting to have into it $$wise by the end?
Hello

If you are interested in building a custom carolina boat please take a look at our website, www.cb-boatworks.com if you do not see what you are looking for fill free to contact us we can design it for you. Thanks

Gene
cbboatworks@aol.com
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Old 11-14-2009, 04:03 PM
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Originally Posted by cbboatworks View Post
Hello

If you are interested in building a custom carolina boat please take a look at our website, www.cb-boatworks.com if you do not see what you are looking for fill free to contact us we can design it for you. Thanks

Gene
cbboatworks@aol.com
www.cb-boatworks.com
919-655-8500

looking at something in the 23-25 range inboard or i/o
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Old 11-15-2009, 04:57 AM
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looking at something in the 23-25 range inboard or i/o
Give us a Call

Gene
919-655-8500
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Old 11-15-2009, 07:16 PM
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Wow, you guys are really making some progress! Looks great!
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Old 11-16-2009, 06:53 PM
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Wow, you guys are really making some progress! Looks great!
Donnie, your craftsmanship and quick progress has inspire several new builders. We thank you and they thank you. Your updates are eagerly awaited by several people. They all have told me so.

The latest builders' progress is being documented on the Builder's Forum at our site.

Thanks again,

Marc
www.cb-boatworks.com
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Old 11-17-2009, 03:36 PM
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Parrott,

What fairing compound do you plan on using ?

Just Curious.

Andrew
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Old 11-17-2009, 04:19 PM
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Post some more pics!!! I'll be starting a 27cc from CB-Boatworks real soon!!!....
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