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Random Quote: Fish are friends not food-Bruce the Shark
It just smells of poor quality workmanship. They have built thousands of boats but the point is most here feel as if some corners were cut to maximize profits. It's bad timing, the economy, loss of jobs, 401K's reduced by 50% etc, and here are pictures of a boat produced by an american icon in the boating industry where there seems to be a void of pride in making the best boat possible. I'm sure there are quality boatbuilders who are out of business and given the opportunity would build a boat to the highest standards, yet we are looking at what appears to be a huge POS due to questionable materials and workmanship. It's just a shame...it really is.
Sorry M.E.K. I have to contradict you. The hull was not laminated by an "AC SUBCONTRACTOR" or any sub, all the hulls are built by Bertram employees. The people you are referring to built the deck on that boat, which looks to be in perfect condition. Also, you can't blame the core. That same Hialeah foam has been used in Bertrams and many other boats for many years without a problem. This is basically and simply a problem with poor lamination practices. Unfortunately it wasn't detected by QC when the part was pulled. I just want to state the facts before we start throwing people under the bus.
Sorry M.E.K. I have to contradict you. The hull was not laminated by an "AC SUBCONTRACTOR" or any sub, all the hulls are built by Bertram employees. The people you are referring to built the deck on that boat, which looks to be in perfect condition. Also, you can't blame the core. That same Hialeah foam has been used in Bertrams and many other boats for many years without a problem. This is basically and simply a problem with poor lamination practices. Unfortunately it wasn't detected by QC when the part was pulled. I just want to state the facts before we start throwing people under the bus.
No worries. The hialeah foam is $HIT, you can't dispute that. Your statement about the foam being used in Bertrams and many other boats for years without incident is FALSE. Would you like to see a 450 that used this same core that had SERIOUS problems?
I just realized, your screen name sounds awful close to the name of the A/C contractor...
Shag - 1/22/2009 6:46 PM
KeyPine, I am an insurance guy and I will take a little issue with "weasel phrases" because there are exclusions in insurance policies for a reason.r no reason. Insurance company? Manufacturer? Who?
Shag
Yeah, I maybe should have used some other word than "weasel." I agree with you there are valid reasons for exclusions, to keep the price to the user down, among others. What I really meant to say is that a list of plain language exclusions is fine, but sort of catch-alls like "inherent defect" don't really make it clear to lots of people what isn't covered.
Is it true that many marine policies issued to boat owners have a specific exclusion for hull delamination??? I thought I remembered reading about this, but I'm not sure. Glossing over my policy, I did not see any mention of this, but it was only a cursory glance...
Intrested to see if there is anyone who can speak for Bertram on this issue...
PtJude
Out of curiosity, when you read your policy did you see any exclusion(s) for "manufacturing defects," "inherent defect," or similar such weasel phrases? I think that is a more common way that the carriers exclude delamination, rather than by doing it straight up. I am not an "insurance guy," so maybe one will comment.
I am going to call my insurance guy today, and get a take on this from his standpoint, but I recall ( dont have the policy in front of me ) something to the effect of "defects in manufacturing" being an exclusion... I think the policy is written to protect me from acts of God, Accidents in boat handling, and liability; speaking in broad strokes of course... Curious to see what he has to say.
__________________
Lets have a Sexy Party! 38 Henriques FB 2000 ~ 17 Montauk 1978
Some policies, not all, have a latent defect clause. As an example, let's say you owned a 15 year old boat and the hull "just came apart". After inspection, it is revealed that there was something done at the factory that caused this defect, then it would be covered if you have a latent defect clause. But since this is basically a new boat with factory warranty, I do not know what that would do to a latent defect clause. My guess, not being an insurance man, is that the policy would not cover something that is supposed to be covered by the factory.
Boy some of you guys rattle on about what happened. You sound like an old woman. Some make brash statements about who builds the boats or the quality of the foam. I don't know why the hull failed; and neither do you; but it did. This may not be the first Bertram in the last couple of years to do so. Will Bertram even explain why? They may. Will we ever see a survey report published by Bertram? I doubt that. Bertram sure has really messed up for sure. The boat should have never passed QC. I understand the boat is only 3 months old. Or at least that is when it was documented. This should not have happened in three months let alone 30 years. The blame is squarely at the feet of Bertram. Poor QC of incoming raw materials may be a cause. Poor workmanship is surely a major factor; as is poor QC of the final product. There is no excuse Bertram can offer that will satisfy me. The last few years they have traded on their name with the "Legend" ads. Like "Live the Legend Feel the Ride". This hull failure casts a long dark shadow on the old ad "The Sun never Sets On The Bertram Empire". If Bertram does not get out in front of this I can see the sun low on the horizon; and it is not a sunrise.
Hello Mike Myers and Don Jones where are you guys? Are you going to let Bertram just spin down the crapper?
Trying to look at options here, say you take out the diesels and eletronics, throw in a pair of 454's and you would have one heck of a marina maid....... Maybe even a few gold reel setups brought out on the weekend..... Liven large baby!
If they fixed this boat, or "gave" the owner a brand new Bertram would you feel safe? The trust may be gone for this owner and owners of Bertrams of similar years.
If they fixed this boat, or "gave" the owner a brand new Bertram would you feel safe? The trust may be gone for this owner and owners of Bertrams of similar years.
"Hey, man, just be glad I had fast reflexes!"
"My brother's gonna sh!t!"
"Make up your mind, dude...is he gonna sh!t or is he gonna kill us?"
"First he's gonna sh!t, then he's gonna kill us!!"
"Relax, all right...my old man is a television repairman. He's got this ultimate set of tools. I can fix it!"
"You can't fix this car, Spicoli!"
"I CAN FIX IT."
If they fixed this boat, or "gave" the owner a brand new Bertram would you feel safe? The trust may be gone for this owner and owners of Bertrams of similar years.
The duct tape IS the fix. Bertram Fedexed extremely high quality duct tape at their own cost and they even gave the owner a couple of extra rolls for any overnight canyon trips. That's customer service.
screen name was just the simplest thing I could think of.....no affiliation with that subcontractor. Nice try though M.E.K. I just thought they shouldn't be blamed for something that wasn't done by them. Either way, from pictures no one can tell what exactly the problem is but odds are it stems from the lamination process (resin starved!). We can all agree it's very unfortunate to see from an American classic. I just hope this is an isolated incident.
If Bertram did not give me my $ back (remember Someone said this is the second time the owner had major problems with Bertram)
I would park it right in the middle of the Miami boat show with a sign saying "Bertram quality???"
Re: Ugly 
