The Hull Truth - Boating and Fishing Forum

Go Back   >
Search


Like Tree1Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 07-17-2017, 08:37 AM   #1
Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 59
Default Twin 454's. My first oil change and raw water pump change.

Hello all. I'm just looking for any tips and advice for my first oil change along with a raw water pump change. The boat is 3 1/2 hrs away and next weekend I'm heading back to the boat to get this stuff done.

For the oil change...

Yesterday we were on the boat and because of a surprise late morning thunder storm along with an overly tired 3 yr old, I forgot to see what oil filters it has. I believe I saw a remote oil filter kit on the engines. On the back of the engine up high were what looked like two large oil filters. When I get to the boat, I'll just see what size filters and to get them at the auto parts store. I'll be sucking the old oil out the dip stock (after warming up the engines) and refilling with Rotella T6 5w40. I've read conflicting things, but it seems these engines either hold 5 or 7 quarts.
Are there at other filters that I need to change?
Anything else that I need to know?

The raw water pump...

The starbord engine raw water pump (at least I think that's what it is) is leaking. It started with a small drop, now it's really bad. Here are a few pictures of it.

https://i.imgur.com/0bto8PX.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/Fb8Ss5I.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/yklW3Y2.jpg

Anyone know of a write up or a "how to" thread? I need to order parts today to have them here in time. Can someone point me in the right direction?

Any advice will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks everyone
Steve91T is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-17-2017, 09:34 AM   #2
SOA
Admirals Club
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 692
Default

The oil change is pretty straight forward and nothing different than doing the service on a car. We just did this on twin 350 inboards. The oil filters are doubled up on that back of the motor, which I believe you already found those. I got the numbers off the filters that were already installed and cross referenced them with whatever Wally World had in stock.

As for the water pump, you will need to order a new pump assembly. They are roughly $200 and you can get them on Ebay. There is a number on the front cover of your water pump. Ours was a Johnson F6B-9.

The water pump itself is a straight forward install. Make sure you close the seacock where the raw water thru hull is before you do anything.
SOA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-17-2017, 09:51 AM   #3
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 241
Default

It sounds like the seal on your raw water pump has given way. I fixed mine last winter and--hate to be pessimistic--it's not something you can fix over the weekend. I'd plan on getting the pump off (check oil filter numbers while you are there), getting the pump seal replaced (and maybe bearings, if this has been going on for awhile), and re-mounting the pump on your 2nd visit.

I tried to attach the Sherwood maintenance/repair guide but the website isn't letting me do that. I don't know if your pump is a Sherwood (kind of looks like it) but the guide will show you what parts are within the pump and how to get to them.

I've only done this once, so I'm no expert--but if it's the seal, you won't be able to get that out without removing the 3 socket-head bolts attaching the pulley to the engine. Mine were really tight and corroded--I had to apply heat with a torch and use a cheater bar on an Allen wrench. You will have to figure out what size wrench you need, or go prepared with a selection.

Then you will have to get that pulley pressed off the shaft (machine shop) so you can get to the bearings and seal. Then get the pulley pressed back on once the new parts are in place. As they say, "installation is the reverse of removal". Good luck.
geomike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-17-2017, 10:43 AM   #4
Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 59
Default

How is the pump attached? Those 3 bolts on the pully? Does the pully need to be removed?

It looks identical to this pump I found.

http://inetmarine.com/10-24915-01Ext...Wl0aAsu-8P8HAQ
Steve91T is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-17-2017, 10:54 AM   #5
SOA
Admirals Club
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 692
Default


That video gives a couple of hints. I believe the black portion in your link above goes behind the pulley itself, and the bolts mate these two items together.
SOA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-17-2017, 11:15 AM   #6
Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 59
Default

Oh I see. Well since I don't know the condition of the housing, I think I'd rather just R&R the whole thing. So it looks like the biggest challenge will be separating the pump from the pully.

SOA, how you pull the pump from the pully?
Steve91T is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-17-2017, 11:22 AM   #7
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 241
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve91T View Post
How is the pump attached? Those 3 bolts on the pully? Does the pully need to be removed?

It looks identical to this pump I found.

http://inetmarine.com/10-24915-01Ext...Wl0aAsu-8P8HAQ
Yes, it looks like you've identified the right pump. And yes--those 3 socket-head bolts attach the pulley to the harmonic balancer on the engine. I predict they are going to be a real bear to get loose, so be prepared with penetrating oil and a torch to apply heat (NOT soon after penetrating oil is applied !!!).

With my pump (a Sherwood, but similar) there's not enough room next to the pump casing to get a hex driver squarely into the bolt head--that's why I had to use an Allen wrench.

And yes, I believe you'll have to have a machine shop press the pulley off the pump shaft you can extract the bearings and pump seal. The bearings are secured on the shaft with circlips, so you will need snap-ring pliers to get them off.

Or--you could take the other poster's suggestions and just put on a new pump. Yours looks kinda corroded.
geomike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-17-2017, 11:26 AM   #8
Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 59
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by geomike View Post
Yes, it looks like you've identified the right pump. And yes--those 3 socket-head bolts attach the pulley to the harmonic balancer on the engine. I predict they are going to be a real bear to get loose, so be prepared with penetrating oil and a torch to apply heat (NOT soon after penetrating oil is applied !!!).

With my pump (a Sherwood, but similar) there's not enough room next to the pump casing to get a hex driver squarely into the bolt head--that's why I had to use an Allen wrench.

And yes, I believe you'll have to have a machine shop press the pulley off the pump shaft you can extract the bearings and pump seal. The bearings are secured on the shaft with circlips, so you will need snap-ring pliers to get them off.

Or--you could take the other poster's suggestions and just put on a new pump. Yours looks kinda corroded.
Yeah I'm going to just replace the entire pump. For $172, the time I save will be worth it (I hope).
Steve91T is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-17-2017, 11:26 AM   #9
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 241
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve91T View Post
Oh I see. Well since I don't know the condition of the housing, I think I'd rather just R&R the whole thing. So it looks like the biggest challenge will be separating the pump from the pully.

SOA, how you pull the pump from the pully?
If you're going that route, I think it all comes assembled (pump + pulley). Otherwise, machine shop to press off/on the pulley.
geomike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-17-2017, 11:54 AM   #10
SOA
Admirals Club
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 692
Default

If you buy the whole assembly, you will not have to do anything internally (ie, no bearings or impeller).

The hardest part for you will be getting those three bolts off. Use penetrating oil and a breaker bar and you should be able to do it. Luckily for me, my boat is kept in freshwater so I dont have to deal with alot of corrosion.
SOA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2017, 07:15 PM   #11
Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 59
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SOA View Post
If you buy the whole assembly, you will not have to do anything internally (ie, no bearings or impeller).

The hardest part for you will be getting those three bolts off. Use penetrating oil and a breaker bar and you should be able to do it. Luckily for me, my boat is kept in freshwater so I dont have to deal with alot of corrosion.
I'm going to buy new bolts. I'm fully expecting destroying those things to get them off.

So does the pully need to be pressed off the pump? Or does it just need a rental puller from the parts store? The guy who sold me the pump said it shouldn't be pressed on.
Steve91T is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2017, 08:23 PM   #12
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 241
Default

New pulley bolts are a good idea (cheap insurance). Am I understanding that you got a new pump, but it doesn't have a pulley ? If that's the case, you'll need the old pulley taken off the shaft of the old pump.

With the Sherwoods, the shaft is not keyed to the pulley and they are pressed on...not sure if a rental puller would have the juice to get it off. I don't know anything about your pump brand, so disregard if different. I'd be surprised if the shaft/pulley wasn't a press fit, though.

If no key on your pump shaft....how does the parts guy think the pulley is going to drive the pump w/out spinning, if it's not pressed on ?
geomike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2017, 08:35 PM   #13
Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 59
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by geomike View Post
New pulley bolts are a good idea (cheap insurance). Am I understanding that you got a new pump, but it doesn't have a pulley ? If that's the case, you'll need the old pulley taken off the shaft of the old pump.

With the Sherwoods, the shaft is not keyed to the pulley and they are pressed on...not sure if a rental puller would have the juice to get it off. I don't know anything about your pump brand, so disregard if different. I'd be surprised if the shaft/pulley wasn't a press fit, though.

If no key on your pump shaft....how does the parts guy think the pulley is going to drive the pump w/out spinning, if it's not pressed on ?
Look at the link in post #4. That's what showed up today. It looks like that bolts to the pully. Right?
Steve91T is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-19-2017, 06:44 AM   #14
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 241
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve91T View Post
Look at the link in post #4. That's what showed up today. It looks like that bolts to the pully. Right?
Yep--I didn't check out the link. Looks like you got a pump with the pulley installed, so that's going to bolt directly to the harmonic balancer on the engine (with the 3 socket-head bolts that I hope are easy to take out !).
geomike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-19-2017, 08:31 AM   #15
Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 59
Default

Are there fuel filters or anything else that should be changed while changing oil?
Steve91T is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-19-2017, 08:45 AM   #16
SOA
Admirals Club
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 692
Default

Depends. On our boat there are two fuel/water separators per engine. One is located near the gas tank and the other is mounted to the motor. Seems overkill but that is how it is set up.

We changed the filters closest to the tank as preventative maintenance since we had the salon floor up anyways.
SOA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-19-2017, 09:29 AM   #17
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 241
Default

One more thing on the oil change--even with the remote mount, you're going to get some oil running down the side of the filter once it's "almost loose". You don't want that in your bilge, and definitely don't want a bilge pump to discharge any of that overboard if you spill. I try to get a 1-gallon ziplock bag around most of the filter, once it's "kinda loose" but before it drips, so the oil (theoretically) stays in the bag. Just be prepared to catch it all once the filter finally lets go.
geomike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-21-2017, 05:26 PM   #18
Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 59
Default

Pump change wasn't super easy! I sprayed PB blasted on the bolts, took a nap then went to work. The bolts are Allen bolts, they broke free easily. Loosened the belts, removed the bracket supporting the pump and took the 3 Allen bolts out. The pump and pulley came off as one. The pulley, to my surprise; was really not attached to the pump. I just pulled and it separated.

Installed the new one and fired her up. No leaks and she was pumping water!

I'll post pics later. Changing oil tomorrow morning.
Steve91T is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Yesterday, 08:49 AM   #19
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 16
Default

Looking forward to your picts!
Brownie289 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Yesterday, 10:32 AM   #20
Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 59
Default

Here they are...

Removing old pump

https://i.imgur.com/xUauEEf.jpg

Pump and pully off

https://i.imgur.com/ENXrTuD.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/V2RavHR.jpg

All buttoned up!

https://i.imgur.com/Sww6ljH.jpg
Steve91T is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 03:50 AM.


©2009 TheHullTruth.com

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.9.3.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.