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Old 05-18-2017, 11:01 PM   #21
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got to the boat and the stuff was tacky, if not borderline still wet. Kinda gummy, I guess. This is my first time working with laminating resin so I haven't a clue what it's supposed to look or feel like. Laid another layer today and then I'll do my final layer tomorrow with a regular resin.
Borderline still wet ? how long has it been?
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Old 05-19-2017, 09:27 AM   #22
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Borderline still wet ? how long has it been?
Gerald
at that point it hadn't quite been 24 hours. Wet may be a little strong. Gummy is a better description.
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Old 05-19-2017, 10:18 AM   #23
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Kind of an on-topic question. Can you use Polyester Finishing Resin for more than one coat? Or do you have to go laminating and then finishing? For my repair I only need a couple of thin coats to fill a couple of quarter size holes in my console (that will be plugged with a scrap piece of fiberglass).
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Old 05-19-2017, 10:28 AM   #24
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Kind of an on-topic question. Can you use Polyester Finishing Resin for more than one coat? Or do you have to go laminating and then finishing? For my repair I only need a couple of thin coats to fill a couple of quarter size holes in my console (that will be plugged with a scrap piece of fiberglass).
sure. the only real difference between finish and laminating resin is that the finish resin will completely cure. Meaning rock hard. A finished surface. The way laminating is turned into finish resin is by adding wax. You can either buy it premixed or you can buy the laminating resin and the wax separately and mix them yourself. The wax is what ends up sealing off the resin from air and allows everything beneath it to cure.

In order to do another layer when using finish resin you would need to sand it in order to knock off the wax that floated to the surface during curing. You can also do multiple layers by working fast and putting the next layer down before the first one cures. It has to still be tacky.
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Old 05-19-2017, 12:36 PM   #25
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at that point it hadn't quite been 24 hours. Wet may be a little strong. Gummy is a better description.
I would recommend that you bump up your catalysts a little bit. Polyester wants to cure relatively quickly, the smell is styrene evaporating and because styrene is an important part of the resin ( responsible for cross-linking between the larger polyester molecules ) too much evaporation can change the physical properties of the resin.
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Old 05-19-2017, 02:03 PM   #26
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sure. the only real difference between finish and laminating resin is that the finish resin will completely cure. Meaning rock hard. A finished surface. The way laminating is turned into finish resin is by adding wax. You can either buy it premixed or you can buy the laminating resin and the wax separately and mix them yourself. The wax is what ends up sealing off the resin from air and allows everything beneath it to cure.

In order to do another layer when using finish resin you would need to sand it in order to knock off the wax that floated to the surface during curing. You can also do multiple layers by working fast and putting the next layer down before the first one cures. It has to still be tacky.
Thank you!
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Old 05-21-2017, 04:25 PM   #27
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wellll...we've got a catastrophe on our hands. Or, on my hands, I guess.

Seems that I may have been having a catalyst issue.
Laid up the final layer of glass friday evening using finish resin. Wasn't able to get back to the boat until this afternoon. Everything still sticky and gummy.

Shit.

I was mixing according to the guidelines on the resin jug. Even double and triple checked that my math was right. So, today I poured an ounce or two into two separate cups. One I mixed with the mekp I was using, one I mixed with mekp from another tube. After a good 30 minutes, the first one was merely gel. After about 15 minutes, the "new" mekp batch was rock hard and throwing off the heat that I normally expect.
The original catalyst that I was using was a brand new bottle that came with the resin from Jamestown Distributors.

So, now what? It looks like I'm going to have rip out ALLLL of the glass and start over. The box is 42.5 long, 23.5 wide, and about 20 tall. Two layers 1.5oz mat on the sides. One layer of 3/4oz mat, one layer of 1708, and one layer of 8oz cloth on the bottom. So it's a decent amount of fiberglass I'm going to throw in the trash.

Needless to say, I'm quite pissed.
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Old 05-21-2017, 06:28 PM   #28
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That stinks, I dont know any way to fix it without tearing it out. Ive thought about mixing a hot batch of resin and rolling on another layer of resin to see if it will make the first layers kick but you really dont have any way of knowing if it only sets the top layer or if it would make all the layers kick. I dont know either way. I had a small spot not kick, probably from not mixing thoroughly, i ended up cutting it out and patching it.

Need to look into the cause of the problem. My guess it two different strength of catalyst?
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Old 05-21-2017, 06:32 PM   #29
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That stinks, I dont know any way to fix it without tearing it out. Ive thought about mixing a hot batch of resin and rolling on another layer of resin to see if it will make the first layers kick but you really dont have any way of knowing if it only sets the top layer or if it would make all the layers kick. I dont know either way. I had a small spot not kick, probably from not mixing thoroughly, i ended up cutting it out and patching it.

Need to look into the cause of the problem. My guess it two different strength of catalyst?
yeah I had a few people tell me to mix a known good batch of resin and coat it all. But I fear the same as you. That the underlying layers won't cure either. I think that idea is purely a "cross the fingers" approach, but man, I've invested so much time already I hate to go rip everything out and start over if I don't have to.
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Old 05-22-2017, 01:56 AM   #30
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Is it possible that your catalyst was exposed to moisture? Moisture in the catalyst or too high of humidity are the normal problems if your ratios were right. As I said before, if you can smell it you're losing an important part of the resin. Even if you could shine a UV light of the proper wavelength to make it cure it still wouldn't generate the proper plastic, too much styrene has left.
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Old 05-22-2017, 03:20 AM   #31
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Is it possible that your catalyst was exposed to moisture? Moisture in the catalyst or too high of humidity are the normal problems if your ratios were right. As I said before, if you can smell it you're losing an important part of the resin. Even if you could shine a UV light of the proper wavelength to make it cure it still wouldn't generate the proper plastic, too much styrene has left.
Gerald
undoubtedly, the humidity was very high last week. Rain showers here and there, very hot and muggy. Miserable, really.
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Old 05-22-2017, 05:06 AM   #32
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Coores, at the end of all this would you mind showing us what you built?
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Old 05-22-2017, 05:09 AM   #33
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Coores, at the end of all this would you mind showing us what you built?
oh right. What am i doing...

I'm insulating the fish box on the boat. The center line box directly in front of the console wasn't insulated from the factory for whatever reason. So I added 2" foam to the bottom, 1" foam to the front and back, and 1/2" foam to the sides.
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Old 05-22-2017, 06:57 AM   #34
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Nice.
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Old 05-22-2017, 09:03 AM   #35
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So, my job happens to have me in a laboratory on a daily basis. That means I spend a lot of time around measuring devices. I started looking at them and I began to think...

I am beginning to believe that I actually was under-catalyzing everything. See, the laminating resin from Jamestown came with a little pipette that had markings on it of .5, 1, 1.5, and 2. There are no units of measure. The resin called for one teaspoon per quart for a slow gel time. I assumed the "1" on the pipette meant "1 teaspoon" because why would they send a pipette labeled in a different unit of measure than their instructions call for? right?

Well, I'm wondering now, after looking at all of my measuring equipment at work, if that "1" was actually "1ml". One teaspoon calls for about 4ml. That means I was only giving it 1/4 of the mekp that it called for.

Now, this has not been confirmed yet. Won't know until I go to the boat and truly measure out the pipette. But if it turns out to be the case then at least we know the mix DOES have mekp that works, just not enough for a normal cure time.

With that said, is there any chance in hell that I could get away with another coat of properly mixed resin? That would harden, with heat, and the layers underneath will eventually harden as well? I was planning on painting with Bilgekote or similar, but perhaps I'll switch to gelcoat to give it some more heat?
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Old 05-22-2017, 09:05 AM   #36
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Try an electric heat gun.
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Old 05-22-2017, 09:06 AM   #37
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Try an electric heat gun.
yup, definitely on my list of things I was going to take over there today.
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Old 05-22-2017, 09:37 AM   #38
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I also bought supplies from Jamestown and was given the "kit" with the pipettes. Since I'd never worked with resin or gelcoat, I made a quick cheat-sheet with conversions based on working time. It appears everything cured as expected and we had great weather here in MA over the weekend. I lucked out.

My project was filling 70 screw holes and repainting my gunwale with TotalBoat one-part nonskid. I also filled a couple 1" holes in the console that came out ok (keeping my day job). Still a few more projects to complete...
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Old 05-22-2017, 09:41 AM   #39
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I also bought supplies from Jamestown and was given the "kit" with the pipettes. Since I'd never worked with resin or gelcoat, I made a quick cheat-sheet with conversions based on working time. It appears everything cured as expected and we had great weather here in MA over the weekend. I lucked out.

My project was filling 70 screw holes and repainting my gunwale with TotalBoat one-part nonskid. I also filled a couple 1" holes in the console that came out ok (keeping my day job). Still a few more projects to complete...
Were you able to determine the unit of measurement that the pipette was?
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Old 05-22-2017, 12:28 PM   #40
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May want to try direct sunlight.
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