Trailer Blunder - The Hull Truth

slatedog · 09-12-2006, 12:58 AM

I know I am going to get thumped for this blunder by this crowd and I deserve it but I still need some advice. Live in Virginia and purchased a 2002 Grady, Yamaha F225 and an Eagle Marlin series bunk trailer from a fellow who kept her on a big freshwater lake in PA about 5 hours from my home. He lives in NY state but has a vacation home on the lake. I hauled her home and the entire rig is in my driveway in VA. He was the original owner who purchased the rig new from a Maryland GW dealer (Boat Doctor Marine which is no longer in business as I understand). He signed over the title to the boat and motor to me as well as title to the trailer. I applied for title to the boat/motor in VA and was issued a new VA title and numbers with no problem.

Here is where I deserve the thumping. In my ignorance I never noticed that the "title" he signed over to me for the trailer was not really a title but instead the original Certificate of Origin (COE) for the trailer from the selling dealer. I just did not examine it closely enough as they look an awful lot like a title (green parchment, borders, etc.) including having assisgnment blocks/language on the reverse side. I march into the Virginia DMV ignorantly thinking I had a title and they quickly inform me that they cannot issue title on the COE as it is only used to assign ownership from one dealer to another dealer and not to individuals. I call the fellow and admits he never titled the trailer in NY or PA (to avoid paying sales taxes) and that he erroneously thought when he sold it that another state would issue a title from the original COE that had been assigned to me. Sounds innocent enough but this is where it gets nuts. He then demands that I pay his sales tax (maybe $500 or so) that he must now pay the state of NY to title the trailer. I go nuts (as I darn well should) and then he tries to say lets split it. I go even more nuts threatening action. He then agrees to do the right thing (not sure if I trust him at this point) and states he will apply for title in NY and sign it over to me (when it arrives which is probably 5 weeks). So the question at the end of this long story is what if this guy just bones me or otherwise goes underground on me....how might I get my trailer titled in VA if he does not come through. I do have a bill of sale signed by him plus I have the darn trailer. I got myself into this and in the meantime can't even legally haul the trailer in VA as I can't get a tag.

savage · 09-12-2006, 01:32 AM

Your blunder isn't that uncommon... Here's mine.
Seller in New Jersey had purchased a trailer from Pennsylvania and never titled or even registered it in his home state. He used it as a "yard trailer" so that he could store the boat in his backyard and move it here and there, a mile or two to the launch. My purchase of the boat, 2 outboards, and trailer took the whole rig into Texas.
Texas taxman says that I can not title and register this triple axle, 12,000 pound Venture trailer (with six new Goodyear Marathons, Kodiak Disks, and LED lighting) because of the broken chain of ownership. Said that I must jump thru many, many hoops, something called a bonded title, to ensure that the previous owner doesn't come reposses his equipment. Cash sale, 1700 miles and signed receipts notwithstanding, I can not legally take the trailer on Texas roads. Complicating my issue is the original VIN is long gone - can't read anything on the manufacturers 1997 sticker.
Tried running the homemade route and the inspector said impossible. Too honest to try the LA. Salvage track.
Fortunately, the boat and trailer is at the marina, while major mechanical repairs have kept me off the water all season. But someday soon, I'm going to want to put that trailer on the road and move the boat. Temporary 30-day registration cardboard tags don't hold up very well in the rain - ask me how I know.

Need2Know · 09-12-2006, 01:32 AM

There is a sponsor on the site that is an attorney

Perry Law Firm. This is more of a legal issue and
in my opinion should only be treated with care
and by the book.

JMHO

warthog5 · 09-12-2006, 01:38 AM

I don't know the law's in your state, but you should be able to get a title in your state with the C of O.

After having had 4 diffrent trailer's, I've only had 1 Cof O for one of them. This was a car hauler trailer built in Tx.

Fl. has no trailer titles.
I belive that that is anything below 4000 trailer weight and then it start's, but don't quote me on that.

slatedog · 09-12-2006, 01:44 AM

VA won't issue a title from the COO. I guess for states requiring titles (VA and NY for sure) they tend to look out for one another to see that people are not beating them out of sales taxes. I can't even get temp tags/registration so right now I am grounded unless I happened to have an extra trailer tag laying around which I don't.

savage · 09-12-2006, 01:55 AM

Here's something...
I had two boats and trailers for a whilethis summer. When the little 19'er was for sale, some opportunistic enterpreneur helped himself to my trailer plates on two occasions. He got one month of valid sticker the first time and one week before expiration the second time.
The police have those tag numbers on file now.

thataway · 09-12-2006, 03:45 AM

If you haven't already done so--go directly to the person who is in charge of the tax offices (DMV) in your country and explain that the trailer was used as a "yard trailer"--never used or registered by the previous owner. Although not in Virginia, I have been able to get the trailer registered in other states by this route. I have found that if you are super nice and plead innocance--that you cannot connact the po etc that rules can be accomidated.... Sometimes they may make it provisional... in case the trailer is stolen.. but in this case I don't see a problem. Start right at the top. Don't even fool around with the front desk. Good luck

Hayzus · 09-12-2006, 06:59 AM

When I purchased my first boat, I had a similar situation with the trailer (boat and trailer was from Delaware, I live in Florida). Since FL doesn't title trailers, all I had to have was a MCO (COO), proof of ownership (sales receipt history), and was good to go.

I would check with both the state and county Division of Motor Vehicles concerning registering and titling the boat, especially in this situation. If you can prove chain of ownership, hopefully you can convince the state to title the trailer.

captsuperfly · 09-12-2006, 08:30 AM

Since the guy now strikes you as just a little shady, and you don't know if you trust him to title it (and don't feel like waiting forever) try convincing him to use a Motor Vehicle registry service (I used one to register my boat and trailer - only cost about 25 bucks). I did it all by fedex and had registration right away (you should be able to tow the boat on his reg till he can provid title). Title itself took less than three weeks. Also, if your trailer weighs less than 1K pounds (seems doubtful) you won't need a title to transfer ownership in NY, the transferable registration should be enough.

I'll try and find the name of the NY state registry service that I used and PM it to you.

bzalmano · 09-12-2006, 08:37 AM

In FL we do not Title trailers, only register them (the state has to get taxes somehow). When I sold my boat to a guy who took it up to VA this became a major problem for him. VA finally titled it with a copy of my old Registration, but from what I could gather VA is a real pain with this stuff.

flyau98 · 09-12-2006, 09:34 AM

The family and I have had a lot of experence with tag offices...it seems the best way it to find an office in a small town, where they aren't so busy and the people are typically more friendly. They will still stick to the law, but are generally far more willing to help you find the legal way to get what you need.

JupiterEdge · 09-12-2006, 09:39 AM

I believe the VA DMV is Incorrect. Some states do not title trailers - or boats for that matter.So dealers give buyers the MSO's.

neckbone · 09-12-2006, 10:26 AM

In SC, we do not title or register trailers. I believe in NC, they title trailers, but don't title outboards. This would pose a big pain in the A for anyone purchasing in other states. It effectively keeps some potential buyers from looking at your boat. States need to either all do the same thing, or get some serious reciprical agreements in place w/ all 50 other states and DC.

jeffro22 · 09-12-2006, 10:27 AM

SC doesn't title trailers. So if you bought a boat from sc you would be in the same situation. I would think there is still a way to get a title even if a title hasn't been issued to the previous owner. Might want to explore this a ltittle further with your DMV

K5WAS · 09-12-2006, 11:21 AM

I think that the thing to do is go to a different tag office and register it as a homebuilt. I doubt if they are going to ask to see it. I think that is what must have happened to a boat trailer that I bought. I live in Florida and bought it in Florida but previous to that is came from Alabama. It was registered as a homebuilt when I got it even tho it was a manufactured trailer with a serial number on it. When I went to the tag office they just registered it to me the same way it was previously registered, as a homebuilt.

GWcpa · 09-12-2006, 11:23 AM

I had the same problem, but I was the seller. Had a Carolina skiff 16 and never needed tags on the trailer. I sold the b/m/t to a broker. He sold the boat and gave the MSO to the buyer. He made money on the deal and then asked me to title the trailer and send him the title.

I sold the boat for $$xx and didn't think about the trailer. I guess I did the right thing and coughed up the money and went back to DMV. The broker kept his full profit and it came out of my pocket.
The new owner probably doesn't even use the trailer on the road either.

Probably the same thing with your seller. He got what he thought the boat was worth, now has to refund $$ when he probably didn't know you couldn't get a title. It is not against the law to not register a trailer if you don't put it on the highway, but I guess sales tax was never paid on it.