Am I getting a screwing from my marina? What to do?

[RussH]

In early April I was replacing a transducer and found rot in my transom. I took the boat to a repair shop on April 16 and was told boat would be done in about a month but no promises. Knowing that boat repairs ALWAYS cost more and ALWAYS take longer than promised I decided to keep the boat out of the water for the year and try to get my money back from my marina that I had paid $1,600 dock fee in full.

The marina told me that if I cancelled my agreement by April 15th I get get 1/2 my dock fee back, after the 15th nothing. Hoping to get the boat back in a month I didn't get to mad about it. A friend of mine wanted to know if he could give me $500 to use the dock for May & June so I called the marina office and was told NO I could not rent to anyone else. Since the dock is right next to the marina office I didn't want to take the chance and let him use the dock for fear of getting caught.

As I suspected the boat is taking WAYYYY longer than a month and is supposed to be done next week which is almost 3 months. I run out to the marina to put my dock bumpers on and find a boat in my slip with bumpers mounted, water hose connected, and shorepower cord run to the dock outlet. The guy that docks a couple of boats down from me was on his boat so I asked him if someone has been using my dock all year. He told me there has been several different boats using it all season.

I go up to the marina office and ask them what is going on renting my dock all season and not telling me about it, how about some money back since I haven't used the dock for a second all year. They showed me a copy of my contract and sure enough it says "Bass Haven Marina may sub-lease dock when Lessee's dock is vacant". Then the women says "you told us you wouldn't be using the dock for quite some time so I don't see what the problem is."

I love the marina and my dock location and I don't want to give it up but it doesn't seem fair they can collect dock fees for a dock I already paid for and not give me any refund money.

Ever heard of such a thing? Would I be a jerk by demanding a partial refund?

Russ

[Finnseeker]

Without having the whole contract in front of me its difficult to comment on the Marina's Policy and or assist. I would put a tender or dingy there this way your slip would not be used. Check see if you have been billed for shorepower and water unless its included in your slip rental. Again without the contract in front of me its difficult to help. you may have also signed a WAIVER OF SUBROGATION which is in most leases.

[prowlersfish]

that is the normal way marines do bussnes

[Kamper]

"Borrow" your friend's boat and put it there. Tell the marina owner you will be sharing it and there is no cash involved so it is not a sub-lease.

Good luck!

[chrisjb]

My marina contract requires that I give the marina notice if my boat will be away from my slip for more than two days so they can rent it out. Seems like standard practice and a good thing to provide for transient slips in highly non-vacant areas. If you love the marina...don't make waves there. I would be more frustrated with the guy taking too long doing the repair and see if you can shave some money off that bill (when the time is right). Let him know that you paid a non-refundable slip fee based on his estimate of the job completion date.

[parnine]

You agreed to pay $1600 for services defined in a contract that you signed. Now you do not like the services which really have nothing to do with your need (your boat is land locked) but more ego and greed.

I'm not seeing where the Marina is 'screwing' (to use your word) you, but rather some sour grapes that are your own fault for not reading the contract of services you agreed to. Why should the Marina, or anyone, suffer (loss of income to them if they were not to rent your slip whle it is not occupied) for your laziness (not reading the contract) or ignorance (not understanding it if you did read it).?

[bigjimmie]

Why do you keep calling it your dock and your slip?Why would you sign a document and give someone money without reading the document? Why do I see this all the time and still ask why do people do things?

[RI Builder]

What you described is standard practice at the marina where I keep my boat. I really do not see what the gripe is, it is not as if any harm or financial stress is being done to you. A contract is a contract - bottom line.

Now, a few things to consider before asking for a refund:

1) How much do you like the marina and your slip

2) How readily available are slips in your area at comparable marina's

I ask these questions because you must think of how the marina may react to your refund request. My marina is a great facility, but they have leverage over the consumer, and they know it. They have a 2+year waiting list as do 99% of the decent marinas in the area. I know if someone were to go in demanding a refund or credit, they would be shown the door and kicked to the curb come renewal time.

On a side note - $1,600 for a 30' boat? WOW that is a good rate for the season!!!!

[CaptWilly]

Russ,

Having just switched from wrenching on boats to working in a marina office let me share with you how it looks from the other side of the fence. First, with our marina if you cancel your contract before the date it is to begin we'll refund the entire amount, one day after and we give half back. This is mostly done because people have a habit of waiting until the last minute to start shopping for a better deal and we've already done the paper work, put you in the database and told half a dozen people "...sorry we're booked for the year." Second, we don't allow anybody to sub-lease their slip, the reason being is they may rent it to a friend-of-a-friend who knows somebody who has this nice wooden houseboat he lives on that he's going to restore as soon as he gets out of rehab...or they may be in contact with the same person we just told "sorry" to and is trying to turn a quick buck. The marina is out to protect the slip holders and their own a**. Third, if someone tells us they won't be using their slip for a day, week, month or more we will rent it out to someone else. The way we look at it is you are paying for the privilege to bring your boat in and use that slip at anytime during your contract but you have to understand that we're also trying to accommodate as many people as possible during the season. As far as the idea of putting a tender or dingy in your slip we would probably not move that out, that would mostly depend on the size of the slip in question, 70 ft. slip?...hell yes! 30 ft. slip?...no.

I always thought those people in the office had it made until I started working there, it's more headaches than fixing a rotten transom. If I were you I'd take my anger out on the people working on your boat. They dropped the ball.

Believe me...the marina wants your business but they have rules they're forced to play by.


ps. Buy the lady in the office flowers or the guy a bottle a rum...you would be amazed at what they'll do for you.

[Bzfishn]

It is, what it is. As said, that is the way they do business. I also concur, you need to read the fine print. Hold onto that thought for a moment.

Now for the tweak. Depending upon the arrangement the marina has with the occupants in 'your slip', there may be more fine print that allows them to move you to another slip for the remainder of the season. I believe slips are assigned and can be changed by the marina. Hope 'your' new slip works for you.

[RussH]

I am beyond mad at the repair company doing the repair on my transom taking so long. Again, what do you do? He was recommended and I checked references, he said about a month but no promises. It's been excuse after excuse, to much rain, to humid, to hot, people not showing up to work.

parnine, wow thanks for your constructive and helpful advice. And thanks for letting me know that I'm lazy, ignorant, have a big ego, and greedy. How do you feel the marina is losing money? I paid for the dock for the season, they refused to give me any refund, now they are double dipping. What if I wanted to put my boat in the water today? If you rented an apartment and told the landlord you would be out for a month but kept paying rent, I guess it's OK someone moved in while you were gone. Geez, I bet your a fun person to hang out with.

Yes it is in my contract but I guess I didn't understand under what circumstances they would rent out the dock. The contract also states no fishing, no camping, no campfires, and no swimming yet no one says anything about it and its done all the time. If I was going to be gone overnite on a fishing trip and decided to come back early should I be worried that my dock was rented to someone else? I think a simple phone call would at least have been in order since they have no idea when I'm going to want the dock back.

[Bitefish]

This is standard in every wet slip contract I've ever seen and IMHO its a sleazy and borderline criminal practice.

You're renting a space for a given amount of $$ per month. If you had an apartment and your landlord stuck a clause in there that if you were gone for more than 2 consecutive nights they could rent your apartment out like a hotel room, you'd never rent that place.

So how is this different, really? Its not. Its your boat's home, just like your apartment is YOUR home.

I understand the issues with subleasing in that the other guy might have zero insurance, etc - and then what? Your insurance doesn't cover it and they have to sue you for what he does if he's judgement-proof.

But what goes on with this sort of thing IS a problem. I've never had it happen to me, but if I came back from a couple-day long offshore fishing trip and there was a boat in my slip, tied up using my permanent docklines and plugged into my power ped, I'd be pissed as hell, especially considering that every place I've ever been has had metered electrical.....

In many places there is no way to fix this, because slips are so tight that if you tell them to pizz off they'll say "so what?" and rent to the next guy. Then what?

The only real solution to this is to organize and speak as a group, and/or to get a law passed. The latter is unlikely, which leaves the former. Good luck getting people together on this......

[Eyeball]

(1) Sounds like you either didn’t read or didn’t consider the ramifications of what you agreed to.

(2) You may have a chance at getting some or all of your money back but it an uphill battle and you can forget about ever going anywhere near that marina in the future. There is an argument that can be used to justify nullifying any part of a contract (in particular occupancy contracts) if the clause is unfair and beyond negotiating prior to agreeing to the contract. (I forget the legal name for it; adversarial contract???)

Anyways, what you would be claiming in small claims court is that you had no choice in securing a slip and had to accept that clause of the contract that requires you to pay rental fees and also allows the marina to derive add’l income from that same slip by renting it again and thus collecting double rent payments. Basically, you pay rent regardless, and you must agree to that clause but you can never benefit anything from it, and the marina has every incentive not to negotiate that clause away.

Also, this is one sided in that you are prohibited from doing the same when you theoretically have possession of the slip you pay for. One sided clauses are not legal in many (all?) states. In some instances where one sided clause is in writing you may presume the same to your benefit to make the clause equitable. Example: if the contract says you agree to pay the marina’s atty fees should there be a dispute and the marine prevails; the same goes for you, the marina is presumed to be agreeing to pay your atty fees should you prevail even tho it doesn’t say so in the contract.

Just out of curiosity it would be worth looking into. If it were me and I had secured other docking options, I would take the marina on in small claims court. I'd have nothing to loose except the filing fee.



Edit: Russ – if you get serious about pursuing this, call your county's bar’s lawyer referral service, tell them you need a contract lawyer, get a referral appt. Print out this thread and take it and your contract to that lawyer. There should be something like a flat $25 fee for the lawyerly referal conference. Show the lawyer my post and ask them to explain it to you. Also ask how you can DIY this issue in small claims court. I’m thinking this may be more straight forward than we might be thinking.

Fwiw, any lawyer that is worth paying would advise you on this issue without charging you because they are successful lawyers (as opposed to the hustling lawyers that need to make a buck) and don't need to charge you. If you go thru your county bar to get an appt the bar is expecting their $25 from the lawyer so you will need to pay that.

[prockvoan]

Another reason that marinas keep that little click in place is:if you are not there and another boat is there,they will be able to sell fuel,ect to a boat that is running.Its a lost of money to the marina all together,but it helps other boaters there to help keep cost down in the long run even with high fuel prices that they have!They carry insurance,its a cost of business,they need to make it up somewere.
Read any contract you have before putting your John on the line!

[twentynine]

Gee Whiz!

You guys are kidding me right? I don't rent a slip and I never have so I have no experience dealing with a marina.

I could pay for the use of a slip and then show up to find that my slip has been rented out in my absence. This may be the "norm", but I don't think it's a good way to treat a customer. If I ever rent a slip you can dang well be sure I am going to read and reread the contract. But, in the long run what good does it do to read the contract. If for instance Russ would have read his contract and came across the rerent deal. If he would have protested and refused to sign, the marina would have said take off. They'd rent it to some one else, twice. You don't think by any stretch of the imagination that they would have crossed out that portion of the contract.

If I understand what RussH is saying, he has paid rent for everyday of the season, not just the days he is going to be there. The marina is not forwarding any of the revenue they are gaining from the second time they are renting the same slip that RussH has already paid for. Might be standard, might be normal, but it sure don't seem very nice.

And to think RussH says he loves his marina! Dang!

[chrisjb]

Per RussH's post, this fact was disclosed to him in writing in the contract he signed.

A few years ago, I was slipping in a dockominium, renting the slip directly from the owner but through the marina office. The office staff would transient rent all vacant slips on a regular basis due to the slip demand in the area. Since I wasn't using it at the time, they rented it. I was given 90% of the transient rental proceeds and the marina kept 10% as a commission. I looked at it as a win-win for everyone. Cruisers were able to find dockage, marina made some cash and so did I. Everyone happy.

[Tireless]

WTF is all I can say! Reading this thread makes me wonder how any of y'all can tolerate living in the North.

[Jimm]

parnine - 8/9/2006 6:27 PM

You agreed to pay $1600 for services defined in a contract that you signed. Now you do not like the services which really have nothing to do with your need (your boat is land locked) but more ego and greed.

I'm not seeing where the Marina is 'screwing' (to use your word) you, but rather some sour grapes that are your own fault for not reading the contract of services you agreed to. Why should the Marina, or anyone, suffer (loss of income to them if they were not to rent your slip whle it is not occupied) for your laziness (not reading the contract) or ignorance (not understanding it if you did read it).?

Lighten up guy; lighten up. I hope you never ask a question here and get the above type answer. ("ego and greed", "your laziness or ignorance") Hopefully you just had a bad day..

So let me understand this - YOU cannot put another boat in YOUR slip but the MARINA can rent the slip to another boat. Sounds like a one sided deal.

[chrisjb]

May be "one sided", but if disclosed in the contract, this is what both parties agreed to.

[Seacat FL]

The answer is:
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They showed me a copy of my contract and sure enough it says "Bass Haven Marina may sub-lease dock when Lessee's dock is vacant".

******************************

Sorry but I don't see the problem. You agreed to it in advance.