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Sent a customer out of Maine with his new boat full of our Maine MBTE gas - after using 1/2 tank he filled with E10 Ethanol gas - mucked up the filter badly - he may have to have all of the gas removed.
Suzuki dealer on the Cape (Cape Cod) said that they have see quite a bit of this and there was an article in this months Professional Boatbuilder Magazine about the same thing.
Just a warning - it could be really bad if you keep pulling this mixture deep into the engines fuel delivery system..
__________________ Jay Perrotta, President
Rock Salt Alloy Boats, LLC
PH: 207-400-7404 jay@rocksaltboats.com
thanks for the heads up...read a lot about all of this and the opinion seems to be do not mix the 2 fuels. Put a 10 micron filter between the tank and engine and run the MTBE gas dry before filling up with E10. I have heard of many people that were fine with less than a qtr tank of MTBE before adding the E10...I think its the 50/ 50 mix or more that causes a sludge that is no good.
fwiw
before becoming more fully aware of potential problems by mixing MTBE and E10 fuels, i put 16 gallons of E10 into a 75 gallons of MTBE when i last topped off. 6 hrs (17 gallons) of running later...no problems whatsoever. i check the fuel filters religiously and have just a trace of water in the racor. engine fuel filters have no water in them at all.
just lucky? or maybe it's because whenever i purchase fuel, i add both fuel stabilizer, fuel dry and ringfree at the manufacture recommended ratios.
still, i plan to fully drawn down the tanks before adding more E10.
How do you really know if the gas you are getting is E-10 or not? I live in Mercer County NJ and I have not seen anything on the pumps indicating ethanol as the additive. I have asked the attendants at several stations and they seem to have no idea what I am talking about. Also, once a station makes the switch, would it absolutely have E-10 from that point on, or could the next tanker delivery conceivably be MBTE?
There is no basis for the assertion that mixing E10 and MTBE gasoline will cause any kind of problems. If that had any factual basis, there would be automobiles stranded all over the shoulders of the interstate highways with clogged fuel filters. Doesn't happen.
Your anecdotal case is likely the result of the customer filling up with a bad load of E10. There is a definite documented risk at the dispensing station level when the conversion from MTBE to E10 is done. Small marinas may not have their tanks and systems properly cleaned at changeover. This has nothing to do with mixing the two fuels. It has to do with the increased solvent action of E10 compared to previous formulations.
There is no basis for the assertion that mixing E10 and MTBE gasoline will cause any kind of problems. If that had any factual basis, there would be automobiles stranded all over the shoulders of the interstate highways with clogged fuel filters. Doesn't happen.
Thank You! I was thinking the exact same thing when I read that article.
There's nothing like spreading a little FUD to generate cash dolla's.
-There is no basis for the assertion that mixing E10 and MTBE gasoline will cause any kind of problems. If that had any factual basis, there would be automobiles stranded all over the shoulders of the interstate highways with clogged fuel filters. Doesn't happen. -
I suggest a little more exploring on the subject rather than a uninformed response off the top of the head. Start with at the difference in environment, the tank cleaning action, breakdown of fiberglass fuel tanks for a big starter.
Gasoline in automobiles is used/drawn down very quickly; I wouldn't be surprised to see that the "muck effect" is less in cars than it is in boats that fill up twice a season. The effect on a boat like mine, which is filled up in the beginning of the season and again mid season perhaps, is probably pronounced a bit more, as the two gas mixtures have a real long time to get to know each other.
There is no basis for the assertion that mixing E10 and MTBE gasoline will cause any kind of problems. If that had any factual basis, there would be automobiles stranded all over the shoulders of the interstate highways with clogged fuel filters. Doesn't happen.
.
Actually , not true. Automobiles do not used a VENTED fuel system like boats do. The vents in boat systems allow water to be absorbed in from the air, which helps create the problem. Simply look at a boat system , it has overflow vents in the fuel line/gas cap area. In most cars you will hear things depressurize when you spin the cap off, not to mention there isnt an overflow vent on the side of your vehicle.
i just changed my fuel filters after running through about 500 gallons of e-10 since may. it was absolutely disgusting. i couldn't believe it. it was thick and brown. i thought i had maybe emptied the holding tank filter (joke). i poured off the brown colored gas and let the sludge dry. when dry it looked like some sort of extremely fine sand (really like powder). i am assuming that this is the 'stuff' that had collected on the tank walls over the years and the e-10 dissolved it off. i feel like having an FTIR analysis done on it just to satisfy my curiosity as to what the hell it actually is. i have 2 micron filters, so thankfully nothing got to the carbs. i am going to try to take some pictures and post. needless to say i will be checking the filters more often than the usual once per season. i ran off as much mtbe fuel from last year as possible before filling up for the first time in the spring (probably 20 gallons left in a 240 gallon tank), so i don't think this was a mixing problem but more an issue with the solvent characteristics of the e-10. bottom line, this e-10 switchover was no 'y2k' problem, it is causing real issues for some folks. i think good filters checked often with spares on board are the key to preventing major problems.
Thanks for the heads up Jay. I guess I am just another one of the those anecdotal cases where MTBE was mixed with E10 and I had severe problems. Before anyone says it must have been crud in the tank I should let you know that the boat was brand new.
parkersal, If you only fill your boat up twice a season, you would probably have problems using MBTE. Assuming you don't use a stabilizer.
visch1, I have been using what ever gas is the cheapest. I have filled up plenty of times using E10 then MBTE and back to E10 and have been since March.. I have never had a problem. The problem with your 'informed response' is that it is some one's opinion and probably not your 1st hand experience as you probably haven't tried. If I read up on it, I could give you a 'informed response' that Milk is bad for you.
This is the same attitude that some people have when it comes to bashing boats. Never been on that type but I heard .......
Again, I have gone between E10 and MBTE numerous this year with my 75 gal tank and haven't had a problem. itwonder hit it right on the head.
Thanks for the post and the link. THT is a great resource to share opinions. Anyone on this board, or any forum for that matter, is most likely reading opinions here online, in publications, soliciting opinions from their marinas, opinions from their mechanics, and combining it with their own experiences, as well as their friends and neighbors. We are all running expensive pieces of machinery, and hopefully not relying solely on my opinion, or ITWONDER's opinion.
If members posted only what their own exact experiences were on whatever issue, then 25 old sea dogs would be the only ones who posted here, until they got tired of posting after the first two weeks that is. I have no problem reading what user1 posts about what happened to his friend.
I add Stabil and Ringfree when I fill up, by the by.
Question: What is the process at the service stations in switching from MBTE to E10 fuel? Do they have to go through a cleaning process of their tanks for the switch over?
My point is that if "Joe Blows" service station has had underground tanks for 20 years, then the tanks are filled with E10 fuel, the junk in his tanks loosens up, mixes......now you fill up, you've potentially have issues now. So although it may seem like something in your boat it could just be the junk from the station that you filled up at???
For the guys here who DO think adding E10 over MBTE may a problem, do you think adding 130 gallons of E10 to 20 gallons of MBTE (in a new fuel tank) will cause problems? I'm hesitatnt to run the tank completely dry, as I don't want to do damage to my engine or the fuel delivery system (Verado). For the guys who DO NOT think it's a problem, I hope you're right
From here on out is E10, so switiching back will not be a concern.
That's one of the potential problems. You may think you are all set because you cleaned your tank but you need to look at the source. Retailers are not required to clean their massive tanks nor are they required to install special filters so you may very well be getting all their old crud.
I am lucky because my boat sits on the trailer in the boat yard. So I picked the newest has station in town figuring they would not have as much crud build up in their tanks. Prior to filling up with E10 I drained my system (tank, lines, VST on motor, and changed the racor) and have not had any problems running 100% E10.
I did cut my old racor in 1/2 (new boat with 1 hour on it) and found rust inside the metal conister. Not rust flakes, but the canister itself had rust on it. I had phase spearation and found layers of gas, water and water/alcohol in my tank when I drained it. Just happy to say I ran into the E10/MTBE problems while the boat was in my driveway this spring and not in the water.
Clam_alert,
It's a tough call. I would not mix the two but you may be able to and not have any problems. For me it was a matter of being safe or sorry and I decided to go through the task of draining (with a hand pump made out of a primer ball and some hose) my tank with ~25 gallons in it prior to filling up the 126 gallon tank with E10.
If it were my boat I would run it down to 15 gallons and then drain it and then add the new fuel. Keep a 5 gallon jug of gas handy just in case you run it dry trying to get down to 15 gallons. It's the last few gallons you pump out which may have the most crud in there. Mine certainly did.
Jay, Great article btw! One of the best I have read on the subject.
I've had some troubles with mixed MTBE, Ethanol, and water. It's no myth. So far the Racor filter/seperator is doing it's job, but each trip was collecting water/brown glop from the clear bowl. Startron was added mid-July and appears to have mitigated the phase sepration of which the brown gelatenous substance is a symptom. Another 100 gallons and if the problem doesn't re-occur, I'll be sold on the Startron product.
Warning - E10 (Ethanol) and MBTE gas Mixing 
