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E85 is already available around here at a couple of gas stations. However, even according to the federal govt anything containing over 10% ethanol cannot be called "gasoline". (it can be called fuel). I dont think the federal govt is stupid enough to sink our economy by forcing a fuel that isnt even recognized as gasoline down our throats just yet considering the amount of "gasoline" powered vehicles used and needed by Americans. You will hear a lot of political jargon over the next year but I dont think anyone except for a few extremists will be crazy enough to vote to ban "gasoline" and leave the majority of americans stranded.
Can somebody please explain the rationale for this? As I understand it, E85 contains less gasoline, which will cut down on fuel economy, which will require more fillups. Won't we cancel out the cleaner air by having to fill up more? I just don't get it.
I can't speak for anywhere other than Irmo, SC, but here, E-85 is selling for $3.65/ gallon. The station owner told me she hasn't sold a gallon of it in three weeks. I sure wouldn't pay $1.00/gallon more to get 20%-30% less fuel economy.
Follow the money, Firefly_Too. Where does ethanol come from? (Hint, in the US, it's made from corn.) E85 is 85% ethanol.
The only potential advantage I can see for using US-made ethanol is its potential to reduce imports of foreign oil, but we probably can't make enough to be significant without driving up the prices of other things we actually need (like food). There's a good article on this in the latest Boat US magazine, someone posted it somewhere.
1) It does not cost much if any more to produce an E-85 compatible engine/fuel system (most 2004+ Gasoline Chevy Trucks are E85 capable out of the showroom)
2) If produced in volume the alcohol would be somewhat less costly than gasoline (I have heard $0.85/gal to produce)
3) Ethanol is a "renewable" energy source. Theoretically, as long as there is organic matter we could churn out more ethanol.
4) Ethanol can be produced domestically thus breaking dependence on foreign energy.
5) Just a whiff of reducing foreign energy dependence will hurt energy speculation and reduce the price of existing fossil fuel prices.
Don't know how much of the above will bear itself out but I would lock-in today's energy prices to be a self-sufficient for our current energy needs.
flying fish - 7/11/2006 11:33 AM
Follow the money, Firefly_Too. Where does ethanol come from? (Hint, in the US, it's made from corn.) E85 is 85% ethanol.
Version 1.0 would be produced from corn. Version 2.0 theoretically could be produced from organic landfill material effectively recycling our garbage and thus not impact food supplies/costs.
5) Just a whiff of reducing foreign energy dependence will hurt energy speculation and reduce the price of existing fossil fuel prices.
Really?. And just where do you think the energy speculators will move to when speculating on fossil fuels isn't fun anymore? If you guessed corn and ethanol, which is already happening, give yourself a high five.
Just wait until the country is hooked on E85 which is what the politicians are trying to do. What happens when there is a drought and the corn crop is reduced to 1/10 of what is needed to produce ethanol to meet demand? We ain't seen nothing yet in terms of high prices and volitility.
Really?. And just where do you think the energy speculators will move to when speculating on fossil fuels isn't fun anymore? If you guessed corn and ethanol, which is already happening, give yourself a high five.
you may be right but the way I look at it, two options are better than one. Right now we have one option (fossil fuel). All of the world's limited fossil fuels have to go to all of the developed and developing nations. Finally the media has us believing we are nearly "out of" crude.
If we could pull back consumption of this limited resource it can't be a bad thing, can it? At least it fractures the speculation into two commodity markets.
Unless of course there is a more attractive option? Fuel cells?
Ethanol is an energy negative fuel meaning that it takes more energy to produce 1 gallon than the 1 gallon provides. Not good if you're trying to wean off using fossil fuels.
An interesting article on ethanol use in Brazil. I wonder if any of our national climate (other than south FL) would support growing sugar beets or cane? Seems like the economics of corn just aren't there...
"The most recent U.S. energy bill, signed into law in August, calls for more than doubling ethanol use by 2012. But U.S. ethanol, which is made from corn, costs at least 30% more than Brazil's product, in part because the starch in corn must be first turned into sugar before being distilled into alcohol. It may take the U.S. a few more decades to bring the cost of ethanol down to 80 cents a gallon -- equivalent to Brazil's most efficient producers -- according to the U.S. Department of Energy. U.S. trade barriers make Brazilian ethanol and its sugar expensive to buy."
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Newburyport, MA
Eastern 35 FB
Door#3
If and when E85 becomes the norm for autos, it is possible that marinas will be required to still sell E10, and given the decrease in overall demand for gasoline, the prices may come down at the marine pumps. I am echoeing what RayK's perspective was in a recent conversation we had on this point. Although it may seem unlikely, it may in fact be the case that E85 will be good for boating till the E10 is grandfathered out completely. The Gov probably won't mandate that your $$$ asset which was sold to you a year ago is no longer usable. Airplanes, certain commercial vehicles, and boats may require special availability provisions for gas. Anybody remember how the leaded gas was phased out?
Door#3, For your info lots of sugar cane is grown in Louisiana. As we speak the sugar mill 10 miles north of me is building a prototype ethenol plant. It could and has been grown in Texas and Mississippi also. When I was in high school I worked in the cane fields and my grandfather was a sugar cane farmer. But sad to say the farming of sugar in U S is in bad shape due to cheap imports. Many farmers have gotten out of business in last 10yrs.
Ethanol from corn consumes almost as much energy as it creates. There is a positive energy result, although it is not that great.
Ethanol from sugar cane/ sugar beets creates quite a bit more energy than it consumes. Enough, in fact, to make it a very profitable business. Problem with using sugar cane is that it is so subsidized by the government that it makes ethanol production from it barely a break even business. For it to work with sugar cane, the Government will have to stop the subsidies and let the market dictate the price.
Here in Baton Rouge, LA, the SHAW GROUP is building an ethanol plant and a Bio-diesel plant. The ethanol plant will produce 50 million gallons a year to start and will be expanded to 500 million gallons per year and the Bio-diesel plant will produce 500 million gallons of diesel from the start. Both plants are scheduled to be online by the summer of 2007.
E-85 is coming... 
