dripless stuffing box...

oldmako · 07-05-2006, 08:38 AM

My old box leaks like a mother and it's time for some new packing. Has anyone used the "dripless" boxes?

Care to comment on:

1 how tough to install
2 does it work as advertised
3 any mods to my existing shaft required
4 price

I'm a bit tired of the water in my bilge.

ABoater · 07-05-2006, 11:57 AM

Rather than replacing the boxes, I used (successfully) dripless packing. I don't recall the specifics, but the yard replaced all of the packing with a new material with a blue teflon coating. No dripping and no heat build up. Three years of use without a drop before I sold the boat.

Cost=$200.00 for a twin engine, direct drive boat (the boat was already out for bottom painting).

oldmako · 07-05-2006, 12:16 PM

I have done a bit of research since the original post and it looks as though I am going to try and find some of the Goretex GFO packing. It sounds easy to install and supposedly runs just about dry. Mush cheaper than a dripless box and something I can do myself.

Tunas · 07-05-2006, 12:57 PM

Owning a dripless system myself and from what I've been able to gather I'd highly recommend going with the goretex packing and following some of the info on boatdiesel.com for adjusting it. One of the moderators there Tony Athens who owns a good sized boatyard has nothing but bad to say about the dripless systems and if you check out his stuffing box system it is beautiful and almost maintenance free or so he claims. When you pull the bellows back on my PSS system or even put slight pressure on it water comes gushing in, a very unsettling experience to say the least.

prockvoan · 07-05-2006, 01:49 PM

Myself,I had look into dripless packings.Not in this life time.If you check on them,you will see if and when the injection hose breaks,the dripless packing is shot.It don't happen to offten,but it does and also a sh-t load of water gets pumped into the boat.Ever looked at how much water your raw water pump puts out?
Goretex(teflon) packing is easy to install.The trick is to adjust it a little at a time.Its a little pricy then regular packing.You can still use regular packing on the rutters.

tobnpr · 07-05-2006, 04:58 PM

Really- some of you guys crack me up. First of all, there is no such thing as "dripless packing" on a PSS shaft seal; in fact, there's no packing at all. It's simply two carbon flanges that are perfectly machined and maintain a watertight seal- without packing of any kind. I had one installed as part of my repower last year and have had no problems. I suppose the manufacturers of some of the world's finest yachts don't know they're supposed to be a POS

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SIM · 07-05-2006, 05:08 PM

I would have to agree with Tob..........have installed many of the PYI's and a few of the other brands to. They are the next best thing to sliced bread [img]../images/emoticons/biggrin.gif[/img]

One of the items you need to figure on is when you are replacing a shaft packing system that has a lot of running time on them, the propeller shaft may have a nice groove init from the years and years of cranking down on the packing nut to keep them from leaking. The problem comes in when the PYI collar is installed, it can not be installed anywhere near that groove otherwise it will not sit straight on the prop shaft and then the dripless part will not work correctly or at all.

You would be surprised how many prop shafts end up getting replaced because of that groove in the prop shaft. Also when the shaft is removed check the cutlass bearing and the area on the prop shaft for wear too.

Other then that I think they are great and highly recommend them. [img]../images/emoticons/thumbsup.gif[/img]

Andy

Shark1007 · 07-05-2006, 06:16 PM

Maybe I could shed some light on this debate. I have used PSS dripless on a 48 Pacemaker I ran as a charter boat for years. Eventually they started spraying and needing repair, thousands of hours to wear out. Unfortunately, the spray killed my generator on the way to deliver the boat to a broker, lazy on my part not to fix earlier.

Next, I used Tides marine on my Hatteras, no problems, but they have had catastrophic failures and may have contributed to the sinking and death of two fellows in a Carolina Classic on the way to the Miami show in Jan. this year.

On a Rampage, I chose to avoid dripless altogether and tried goretex. My ham-handed buddy tightened the nut too much and you could fry and egg on the shaft log. I never could get it right and went to Teflon and they are decent, not perfect.

On a 38 Express Bertram I have now, I'm going to use the western pacific trading inc. dripless goo, the green stuff. You can't hardly service the shaft logs on this one and you'd need to knock off the couplers to install PSS or PYI, etc. That would be a horrible adventure, standing on your head, as it were.

With grooves in the shaft, removal of couplers and all the work evaluated, this is my current decision. If you can service things easily, it's easier to use conventional shaft logs and green goo, if it's a new install, with shafts/gears, etc. it would be easy to use the whole system. Removing a coupler from an older, saltwater exposed boat is akin to doing your own hemorrhoid *surgery, you can do it, but halfway through you'll wish you never started.

stangclassic66 · 10-17-2006, 01:17 PM

For everyone with a PSS dripless shaft seal, you all need to put on at least two hose clamps on the shaft in front of the aluminum cap. That way if the cap ever backs out you have the added insurance of having two or three hose clamps to prevent the cap from backing out and letting a $h!tload of water into the bilge.

I can go either way but personally, I like a dry bilge. If you can pack shaft with enough standard stuffing gland to slow the drip to once a minute, I think you're fine.

Oh, and sorry for bringing this thead back up.

Aliboy · 10-17-2006, 05:33 PM

These are my favourites for shaft seals. 8 years, 9000+ hours, shafts in and out for crack testing a couple of times (4 yrly charter boat certification), never any maintenance, and never a drip of water. Why would you want a wet bilge?

http://chatfield.shopnz.biz/catalog/...3697b9dbf89269

BigosS · 10-17-2006, 05:59 PM

Quote:

tobnpr - 7/5/2006 4:58 PM

Really- some of you guys crack me up. First of all, there is no such thing as "dripless packing" on a PSS shaft seal; in fact, there's no packing at all....

I think you misunderstood. What I read in those posts is they were saying that the "dripless packing" in a standard stuffing box is preferred in their cases to the PSS type systems.

I've heard of some PSS users adding a crossover line so that if both engines can supply water to both PSS, in case one engine looses it's raw water.

I don't want the PSS system for my boat. To me it's not reliable enough, my boxes are easy to get to, only need adjusting twice a year at most, and my bilge is going to be wet anyway (28 Bertram hatches leak like crazy). I'd rather have a failure mode where I get very small water leaks instead of a gusher.

abysmal · 10-17-2006, 06:57 PM

If you want to stay with your old Buck Algonquin bronze stuffing box and go with TFE, do a search on Fish the Classic http://www.fishtheclassic.net/forums/
Spend pennies a year.
Otherwise buy an overpriced PSS or other dripless and pay way too much for replacement parts.
Your choice.....

CB Haws · 10-17-2006, 07:04 PM

KISS means packing. PSS means mayday if a water line fails.

billinstuart · 10-17-2006, 08:23 PM

On a high speed hull the shaft log may not get any lubrication from the water under the hull, due to venturi effect. Don't rule out lubricating conventional packing with water from the engine. Personally, my 24' Blackfin has conventional packing. I repositioned the packing with a different length hose on the log when I rebuilt it...started on a section of the shaft that wasn't worn. It drips a little, but not enough to cause a problem.

Jellybean · 10-18-2006, 08:21 AM

I put PSS seals on my boat two years ago and love them. With the standard packing, it always leaked, and in fact it's supposed to leak a little. So when the shaft rotated, my transmissions were always getting coated with a fine saltwater mist. After sanding them and repainting them, I installed the PSS seals with a crossover, and have never looked back. They are the way to go.

dpdash · 10-18-2006, 11:40 AM

Quote:

Shark1007 - 7/5/2006 6:16 PM

Removing a coupler from an older, saltwater exposed boat is akin to doing your own hemorrhoid *surgery, you can do it, but halfway through you'll wish you never started.

That is funny

Bitefish · 10-18-2006, 11:58 AM

GFO packing in a traditional stuffing box guys.

Almost no leaks.

Then get a piece of rubber and put it over the box and shaft, so that the very small amount of water that DOES drip doesn't get slung around.

End of problem, and without the risk of the "dripless" systems.

The dripless systems CAN fail catastrophically and when they do they will sink your boat.

Jellybean · 10-18-2006, 12:32 PM

You're creating a lot of extra work for yourself by adding a rubber shield to throw down spray. You have to remove it to adjust the packing gland, and they fall off half the time anyway. And if you tighten Gore-Tex or Teflon too tight, the material will score your shaaft.

ANY stuffing box failure can sink your boat. I'll stick with PSS.

SIM · 10-18-2006, 12:40 PM

Conventional packing boxes work fine.......its just when you are unfortunate enough to have prop shaftinstallation where the seawatergets sucked out of the shaft log(outside of the boat)and the packing and stuffingbox assemblygets hot. Very hot.

If yours drips while underway at speed then you probably do not have to adjust your packing to much anyway's.

A cheaper alternative to dripless shaft seals in the case's where the stuffing boxes get hot, is to drill and tap the stuffing box assy, install a small pipe to barbed fitting and run a cooling hose off the engine. This injects enough water to cool the packing and keep it from failing prematurely. You need to make sure that the stuffing box assyfitting is thick enough to drill and tap though.

Installed correctly the dripless systems work great and I have yet to see a boat sink from one. I have read about ones that have, but do not know the details as to why they did.

I think it is much more common to see bilge pumps that run every 10 minutes or so from conventional dripping packing seals leaking. Nothing wrong with that as long as the float switch, battery(s) or bilge pump does not fail. Wonder how many boats have sank because of that? [img]../images/emoticons/wink.gif[/img]

Andy