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With gas prices soaring and no relief in sight, the idea of using lower-priced ethanol from U.S.-produced corn is an appealing alternative. But boat owners should be aware than ethanol-gasoline mixtures can be dangerous to the health of your engine.
Gasoline mixed with 10% ethanol is in widespread use in states that have banned MTBE, a chemical that adds oxygen to gas and reduces air pollution. Unfortunately, MTBE has been linked to groundwater pollution and to cancer, leading to a ban on its use in about half of U.S. states. Ethanol is commonly used as a substitute. But boat owners in those areas - especially in New York, Connecticut and California - are reporting major engine problems associated with their use of ethanol-gas mixtures.
There are three problems, two that can affect all boats and one specific to older boats with fiberglass fuel tanks.
Everyone can be affected by the first problem, which is water dissolved in the mixture. Water is practically insoluble in gasoline. Even if the gas you get from your marina is completely dry when pumped into your boat, water will get into your fuel. There's likely a buildup of water at the bottom of your fuel tanks right now. That water comes from condensation that forms on the inside surfaces of the tanks with the normal fluctuations of humidity and temperature. Since the water can't dissolve into the gas and is heavier than the gas, it sinks to the bottom of your tank and sits there. As long as the level of water remains below your fuel pickup tube, it never affects your engine.
However, water is soluble in ethanol. This means that the water in your tank will dissolve into an ethanol-gas mixture and be carried along to your engine where it will degrade performance, corrode engine surfaces and can prevent your engine from running at all.
Adding fuel-water separating filters, like the Racor 10-micron separators, will trap dissolved water. Because ethanol-gas mixtures are likely to contain much more water than standard gas, you'll need to check the filters much more frequently - every time you go boating - and keep plenty of spare filter elements on hand.
Ethanol is much more dangerous in boats with fiberglass fuel tanks. Boats with fiberglass tanks built before the mid 1980s (which includes some Bertram, Hatteras and Viking models along with others) may be at risk as ethanol dissolves some of the resins in the walls of the tanks. The resins work their way through the filters, then separate out when the engines cool down and the gas flashes(evaporates) off internal engine parts. The resins stick to the engine parts and harden. The most common problem seems to be that the vales stick, resulting in bent or broken pushrods.
There have also been reports of ethanol causing problems in newer outboard engines. This is related to the third problem. Ethanol is a wonderful solvent. It's so good that when you put it in a fuel system that's not new, it dissolves the varnish and other gunk that has collected in there over the years. The newly dissolved gunk travels with the ethanol into the engine where it clogs fuel filters, carburetor jets and injectors. This isn't fatal to your engine, but can lead to engine failure while running (which can be fatal to your boat) and at the very least to costly repairs.
As the use of ethanol spreads from the Midwest - where it's widely used - to other areas, boaters should be aware of what's being pumped from gas docks they visit. If you don't see a sign, ask the attendant whether the fuel has ethanol added. If it does, take precautions and be prepared with spare parts and towing insurance.
people are just too hyped up about this stuff. no one will know whats going to happen until we use the gas for a while. lets see what the deal is and then get upset IF anything bad happens. there are too many details of too many possible reactions to consider right now.
__________________ Top Gun 1992 Donzi 22 Classic 454 King Cobra
The fiberglass tank problem is REAL and has basically destroyed the economic value of a LOT of older hulls powered with gas engines. Many of these boats require $10,000+ worth of work to rip out the old tanks and replace them....
The other problems are maybes.
The big problem with ethanol is that its a net lose no matter how you slice it. It has less energy content than gas, it is extremely corrosive (so much so that they can't send blended fuel down pipelines!) and there's not enough ethanol to meet demand, which is PART of why gas prices are so high.
All as a sop to ADM and a few other big farm companies....
I was seriosly considering a Yellowfin, but i did not feel comfortable with the glass tanks for other obvious reasons. I think I made the right choice.
MTBE sounds bad. Now consider that Benzene, which is an inherent part of gasoline, is something like 1,000 times as toxic. Yet you can't make gasoline without benzene in it!
MTBE is not the monster that people make it out to be. Yes, it is toxic, yes, it is harmful, yes, it is not good to find it in water or ground.
But neither are any of the other compounds that are inherently in gasoline, and some of them - including benzene - are amazingly toxic substances.
To put it bluntly, calling MTBE a "hazard" when you have substances that are inherently part of gasoline that are one thousand times more toxic is ethically bankrupt - at best.
MTBE, by the way, is used as an octane enhancer and oxygenate. For the former purpose not much is necessary. It is the latter purpose that led to the problems.
But - with comptuer controlled engines, the latter problem isn't real. YES, when this started, the different formulations were a good idea. But now, with the closed-loop engines and catalytic converters, it simply isn't necessary.
If you doubt this, and think it really IS needed for smog control, consider this - after Katrina President Bush signed an emergency executive order dropping ALL oxygenate blend requirements for gasoline sales, allowing non-reformulated gasoline to be sold anywhere in the nation - including places that require these blends during the summer months for "smog control."
Did you see ANY stories about smog problems?
Nope.
Why not?
Because oxygenated fuels are no longer necessary.
Its a sop to the tree huggers and NOW farm interests - and not family farmers either, but the big guys like ADM.
The truth is that NEITHER MTBE OR Ethanol needs to be in our gasoline. Removing BOTH will solve both problems (boats and MTBE pollution) but does nothing for the fact that gasoline contains extremely toxic substances that are far more hazardous, and there is nothing you can do about it (other than getting rid of gasoline entirely!)
I wish I had better news but we've had this in CT for 3 years or so and it raises hell with all older tanks, carburetors and sometimes even fuel lines - cars AND boats. For the last 2 years almost every tow ij our Marina was a result of clogged filters and gas issues. Supposedly its a one time issue. Once all the old varnish or whatever is dissolved or pumped into your filters you should be all set.
I think the article is right on. Forewarned is forearmed.
A search on this subject will not reveal any good news. Get yourself one of those super duper mini micron in line filters and change it often for the next year.
Have fun!!!
__________________ 1st Cav Div Air Assault Infantry RVN
-Can Do........ and .......Carry On -
However, water is soluble in ethanol. This means that the water in your tank will dissolve into an ethanol-gas mixture and be carried along to your engine where it will degrade performance, corrode engine surfaces and can prevent your engine from running at all.
Adding fuel-water separating filters, like the Racor 10-micron separators, will trap dissolved water. Because ethanol-gas mixtures are likely to contain much more water than standard gas, you'll need to check the filters much more frequently - every time you go boating - and keep plenty of spare filter elements on hand.
Yamaha for an example recommends 87 octane for my engines. I am under the impression the methanol is a higher octane and burns hotter than normal gasoline?????????
Can anyone clear that up or know more about octane levels with methanol?
No matter what angle I look at this Ethanol deal, it's bad. Not only is Bitefish right about it not being necessary as an oxygenator, it'll also reduce your fuel milage.
Bottom line is that we endup paying for something that we don't need but it provides less mpg to boot. What a scam!!
MTBE sounds bad. Now consider that Benzene, which is an inherent part of gasoline, is something like 1,000 times as toxic. Yet you can't make gasoline without benzene in it!
MTBE is not the monster that people make it out to be. Yes, it is toxic, yes, it is harmful, yes, it is not good to find it in water or ground.
But neither are any of the other compounds that are inherently in gasoline, and some of them - including benzene - are amazingly toxic substances.
To put it bluntly, calling MTBE a "hazard" when you have substances that are inherently part of gasoline that are one thousand times more toxic is ethically bankrupt - at best.
I think some of your figures are a bit off. I believe the EPA health-risk standard for benzene is 5 parts per billion. For MTBE it used to be 200 ppb, but i think the standard is lower now. MTBE is very soluble in water, benzene is not; neither are most of the other compounds in gasoline like toluene, ethylbenzene, and xylenes. Gasoline hydrocarbons can be fairly easilly broken down in the environment, but MTBE does not usually degrade as well as the others and is very hard to remove from water by treatment because it is so soluble.
So MTBE is a little less toxic to humans than benzene, but MTBE is more of a problem in the environment. If you don't believe that, talk to someone who just found MTBE in their well due to a leaking storage tank system. They tend to be a little bit irritable when you tell them "at least it wasn't benzene."
I think you're right about the requirements for ethanol in the so-called Energy Bill were at least partly driven by the large producers such as ADM. And ethanol in boat fuel systems is not a good thing for many of the reasons cited here. I think its fine for cars, however, and even if its introduction into gasoline may have been under dubious circumstances, ANYTHING that ultimately helps reduce our dependence on foreign petroleum is a good thing in the long run.
__________________ Proud member of Professor Eyeball, Esq., MD, MBA's ignore list since 2008.
I wish I had better news but we've had this in CT for 3 years or so and it raises hell with all older tanks, carburetors and sometimes even fuel lines - cars AND boats. For the last 2 years almost every tow ij our Marina was a result of clogged filters and gas issues. Supposedly its a one time issue. Once all the old varnish or whatever is dissolved or pumped into your filters you should be all set.
I think the article is right on. Forewarned is forearmed.
A search on this subject will not reveal any good news. Get yourself one of those super duper mini micron in line filters and change it often for the next year.
Have fun!!!
Sorry to hear about your troubles. We dont have the e10 yet but i cant say im worried about it.
the mtbe is a good example of the EPA flipping out about nothing. the risk to your life in driving to the gas station is higher than being poisoned by mtbe in drinking water. anything that has a rating in ppb is nothing to be afraid of. drinking ethanol is probably just as bad for you and im doing that right now. half of all chemicals (natural and artificial) can be label carcinogens. 1/3 of americans get cancer in their lifetime. its not because of mtbe or gas.
However, water is soluble in ethanol. This means that the water in your tank will dissolve into an ethanol-gas mixture and be carried along to your engine where it will degrade performance, corrode engine surfaces and can prevent your engine from running at all.
Adding fuel-water separating filters, like the Racor 10-micron separators, will trap dissolved water. Because ethanol-gas mixtures are likely to contain much more water than standard gas, you'll need to check the filters much more frequently - every time you go boating - and keep plenty of spare filter elements on hand.
Yamaha for an example recommends 87 octane for my engines. I am under the impression the methanol is a higher octane and burns hotter than normal gasoline?????????
Can anyone clear that up or know more about octane levels with methanol?
steve, methanol and ethanol are both anti-knock components. they "raise the octane level" without raising the octane level. the make the gasoline behave like it has a higher octane to heptane ratio when it doesnt really. methanol is a strong solvent like ethanol. it will cause the same clogging issues, IF thats going to be a problem. dont have a fit just yet.
everyone stop fussing about benzene. i handle it all the time. its one of the most stable organic compounds in the universe, ever. that means it wont hurt you.
__________________ Top Gun 1992 Donzi 22 Classic 454 King Cobra
E10 as the newer fuels are nicknamed are 10% ethanol and 90% gas to replace the octane adder MTBE that was causing groundwater pollution. This is what we will be faced with this summer at the pumps.
Ethanol contains less energy (BTU) than the same volume of gasoline. Per gallon ethanol is 76,330 BTU where gasoline is 116,090 BTU, about 34% less energy compared one to one. Based on a concentration of 10% ethanol in pump gasoline, you may still see the same octane rating ((R+M)/2), but may see anywhere from 3% - 6% less fuel economy due to less energy (BTU) it contains. One other issues is the ethanol used in fuel is anhydrous (without water) which makes it hydrophilic, this means it attracts water. Another issue is ethanol tends to evaporate very easily due to a low vapor pressure. Both these issue decrease the "shelf life" of fuel in your boat and over time reduces the octane rating of fuel in your tank.
Since I have new fuel lines I'm covered there, but I will not let the fuel sit in my tank for over-extended periods for the reasons mentioned above. Filtration should be the same as with previous gasoline since it does not increase particulate matter by using ethanol.
These are facts of the ethanol additive - I'll let you decide if it's better or worse. I have my opinion, but do not want to spark a debate on such an explosive subject.
mackey do you really know anhydrous means? it means it had no water in it when it was added. it doesnt make it more or less hydrophilic. ethanol is ethanol whether it is anhydrous or not.
youre post is all over the place. your comparison of ethanol to gas is ridiculous and irrelevent. the purpose of the ethanol is to make the gas behave a certain way. yes it combusts with the gas but no that does not mean its meant to increase the "BTU" of the reaction which is not how heats of reaction are measured in the first place. the ethanol helps the ENTIRE mixture resist combustion at high pressures.
thanks for letting us decide on our own
mike
__________________ Top Gun 1992 Donzi 22 Classic 454 King Cobra
Well, first off, Ethanol is a net lose for our energy indepedance. It requires more energy to MAKE IT than you get when you BURN IT, when you count all the farming and such. Oh, and corn is a NASTY crop in terms of soil damage too.
Bottom line here is that E10 is not good for anything - car or boat - except ADM's profits. It hurts our fuel economy, its hurts our energy posture, it hurts our pocketbook (its actually in short supply right now, and we're starting to import it - from Brazil!), and it has nasty effects on fuel systems. Oh, and its hydrophillic and what's worse it makes water miscable with the fuel, so now instead of easily separating out water that gets into your fuel system it can be carried through to the engine where it can - and will - play hell with your fuel injection system.
It sucks, but there is not much we can do about it right now, other than deal with it. This much is certain - leaving fuel laying around in your boat tank just got real dumb. Rig a way to siphon it out into your truck and when you're not boating burn the fuel off instead of leaving it laying around, and make damn sure you run stabilizer in the fuel ALL THE TIME.
And holler at your reps and senators - we should be drilling off our coasts and in Alaska instead of using ethanol in our gas, not to mention the shale deposits out in Colorado that are five times the proven reserves in Saudi Arabia....
Mike - I'm a little confused by your response. You can pick up any simple engineering book and read what I have rattled off. It's not rocket science stupid. Education is a wonderful thing - lay off the benzene dude.
mackey its not a big deal, but youre interpetting things all wrong. i appreciate your addition to the thread, but its clearly not your own ideas, and your source of information is bad. i'm not saying you wrote that bs. but you didnt get it from a chemical engineering book and i know because this is what i study so dont call me stupid. esp when you dont have a clue as to what youre talking about.
ill respect whatever you do for a living and wont try to criticize you on it. please dont call me stupid when i voice my knowledge on the subject at hand. i read those books everyday.
you work your side of the street and ill work mine.
__________________ Top Gun 1992 Donzi 22 Classic 454 King Cobra
The fiberglass tank problem is REAL and has basically destroyed the economic value of a LOT of older hulls powered with gas engines. Many of these boats require $10,000+ worth of work to rip out the old tanks and replace them....
The other problems are maybes.
The big problem with ethanol is that its a net lose no matter how you slice it. It has less energy content than gas, it is extremely corrosive (so much so that they can't send blended fuel down pipelines!) and there's not enough ethanol to meet demand, which is PART of why gas prices are so high.
All as a sop to ADM and a few other big farm companies....
There is a less expensive alternative. They are selling bladders to install inside existing fuel tanks. While it still involves major surgery and may not be practical on some vessels, for those with decent access to the gas tanks, it is a viable and cheaper alternative...
ETHANOL: GOOD FOR CARS, BAD FOR BOATS 
1st Cav Div Air Assault Infantry RVN
