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Old 01-09-2017, 04:59 PM   #1
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Default Hydrofoil

Been thinking about adding this to my Wc 246sf
https://www.amazon.com/Sport-Hydro-B...ct_top?ie=UTF8
Is it hard to install? I think it will improve handling and ride characteristics.
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Old 01-09-2017, 05:18 PM   #2
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Have that foil in white with all the hardware including nuts and spacers that i would part with for a reasonable offer - PM if interested
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Old 01-09-2017, 05:47 PM   #3
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That's the last thing anybody would want on Cat engines
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Old 01-09-2017, 05:51 PM   #4
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Let me ask you this, what exactly do you hope they will fix?

I thought about them for my WC 250DC when I first bought it. After being convinced not to buy them and just get used to the boat, I was happy I didn't get them.

How long have you owned the boat?
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Old 01-09-2017, 08:32 PM   #5
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Had the boat two years. Was thinking it would help with following seas quirks and get me on plain faster.
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Old 01-09-2017, 08:45 PM   #6
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I believe those are much too flexible to do you much good..

If you want to trim up, trim down, level your hull side to side with unbalanced loads, or raise one side in a beam sea to avoid bow steer, the 1/4 aluminum Permatrims with side bends to capture prop wash will make a big difference, so that you can also feather the bow to make it ride on lightly top with less impact and bow movement.

I have used the hydra on a 17' hull and it helped, but on a longer 8000 lb package, the Permatrim is definitely the way to go in my experience, and they have several models designed to fit each style of outboard foot, as opposed to one size fits all.
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Old 01-10-2017, 07:57 AM   #7
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Thanks a lot Bull. I value your opinion very much regarding cats. Looks like the permatrims I need run about $300 for a pair. Is installing them something I can do or do I have to pay someone to do it?
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Old 01-10-2017, 09:04 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carbidemanfishing View Post
Thanks a lot Bull. I value your opinion very much regarding cats. Looks like the permatrims I need run about $300 for a pair. Is installing them something I can do or do I have to pay someone to do it?
I installed one years ago. Took maybe half an hour. Mark and drill holes, install bolts and washers.
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Old 01-10-2017, 09:11 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by Bullshipper View Post
the Permatrim is definitely the way to go in my experience, and they have several models designed to fit each style of outboard foot, as opposed to one size fits all.
I agree.

Tried out the SE Sport like you have pictured and also a Permatrim type. The SE Sport helped but had more drag than the Permatrim version. Stuck with the metal plate version and ditched the thick cumbersome plastic.

Neither were hard to install. Just make sure it lines up correctly.
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Old 01-10-2017, 09:33 AM   #10
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Permatrim has an installation video, instruction sheet, and comes with the hardware. Common hand tools and a couple of clamps are all you need.
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Old 01-10-2017, 06:09 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carbidemanfishing View Post
Had the boat two years. Was thinking it would help with following seas quirks and get me on plain faster.

I had similar concerns for the first year or so I had my 250DC. I opted not to get them and just played with the engine trim more. Did a lot of experimenting and found I could get her to handle how I wanted with just adjusting the motors as they are.

A lot of practice and I was able to get used to her and make her do what I want. Yes, there are some inherent characteristics but its all good now that I learned how to make it work,

Do what you wish but my experience was it is unnecessary.
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Old 01-10-2017, 07:17 PM   #12
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Makes a huge difference. I put one on a 22' Angler and made a huge difference.

Get a stainless one that drills/bolts on. Took me a day to install but man was it worth it.
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Old 01-10-2017, 07:20 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carbidemanfishing View Post
Thanks a lot Bull. I value your opinion very much regarding cats. Looks like the permatrims I need run about $300 for a pair. Is installing them something I can do or do I have to pay someone to do it?
You can do it if you can use a drill and have patience. You need a buddy so it lines up right. Mine was a permatrim I think. I put lifeseal in the drilled holes and bolts.
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Old 01-10-2017, 07:46 PM   #14
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I'll cast another vote for the Permatrims. They are pretty heavy duty. I installed a set on my 22' SeaCat and noticed an improvement in the ride. This was 11 years after running without them. They help control the trim better and assist with stern lift.
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Old 01-10-2017, 09:21 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by One4Water View Post
I had similar concerns for the first year or so I had my 250DC. I opted not to get them and just played with the engine trim more. Did a lot of experimenting and found I could get her to handle how I wanted with just adjusting the motors as they are.

A lot of practice and I was able to get used to her and make her do what I want. Yes, there are some inherent characteristics but its all good now that I learned how to make it work,

Do what you wish but my experience was it is unnecessary.
Yes I also have the experience now and can deal with the quirks by trimming properly but if this foil can lessen the need to play with the trim and get me on plain faster then it may be worth it.
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Old 01-10-2017, 10:06 PM   #16
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The Permatrim is especially designed to give maximum trim control. The plate size is based on the strength of the foot, trim motors and boat speed if you ask Andy at SIM Yamaha who is their USA distributor.

People can say they are unnecessary, but I guess you can also say you don't miss what you have not experienced, and I have never heard of a cat owner taking them off after trying them.

Without them on my Seacat22 I could not get the bow down, and on my prokat,26 the props blew out before I can get the bow up even though they were buried.

Cat sponsons are not wide enough to add trim tabs to knock the bow down like a monohull, so the Permatrims on wide spaced motors makes the cat hull much less quirky and improves an already good ride into something that is at least 15% better in head, beam and following seas, and also require less driver attention to trim after their initial adjustment, in my experience.
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Old 01-11-2017, 01:49 AM   #17
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.... Cat sponsons are not wide enough to add trim tabs to knock the bow down like a monohull,...
Is that so? Maybe more aimed at US designs which are leftovers from a mono way of thinking and possibly those that have not experienced this yet
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Old 01-11-2017, 03:06 AM   #18
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I'll vote for the Permatrim as well. One of the best additions my boat has seen. You can do it yourself in a couple hours, no problem at all. Just go slow, mark your holes and check them like 18 times before you drill.
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Old 01-11-2017, 09:06 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kerry View Post
Is that so? Maybe more aimed at US designs which are leftovers from a mono way of thinking and possibly those that have not experienced this yet
Cat sponsons are about 32 inches wide on the smaller world cats, seacats, gb's, et all. I have 16" props on mine so that leaves about 6" on each side where the bottom is curved, and has a stepped chine. So if you put a 12" wide trim tab on either side and ahead of the motor, it will disturb the flow of water going to the prop, add bubbles, and is also too long to permit you to trim in the motors without hitting them. Plus a trim tab ahead of the motor will not lift the bow like a trim tab.

If you cannot lift the bow and hold it, the bow impact on waves is heavier and more frequent, the water leaves the sponsons farther forward making for a wetter ride, the boat will sometimes burn more fuel and run slower, and you cannot place weight around the hull as easily.

So while I understand that some designers call out for 90+% of the sponson to be engaged with the water at a relatively flat attack angle, in my experience, that is only great on glass, but in the rough stuff, sometimes 60% engagement affords a better ride on a smallish cat, and you need a large fin to accomplish that.

We have the largest consumer market in the world Kerry, so if your aussy designs were so great, why are Austrailians coming here to buy their hulls and raving about how good they compare to what you guys can buy locally? I don't know of one Aussy hull here in the states that hasn't looked crude and gone bankrupt after less than a dozen hulls, including Kevlacat.
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Old 01-11-2017, 09:45 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bullshipper View Post
improves an already good ride into something that is at least 15% better in head, beam and following seas,.
I want to check the math on that number
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