My bad experience with Pirate Marine trailer dealer 5 YEAR OLD THREAD - The Hull Truth

Mr. Demeanor · 02-11-2006, 11:16 PM

THIS IS AN OLD THREAD THAT JUST GOT BUMPED UP BY SOMEONE DOING A SEARCH.
6 YEARS LATER AND PIRATE MARINE STILL GETTING BAD PRESS FOR SOMETHING THEY SHOULD HAVE MADE RIGHT (if they are even still in business).

Heres the story:
I purchased a 23' rack stored boat in mid December from Maryland and got a price on a trailer from Pirate Marine ( http://members.aol.com/piratemarinenet/home.html ). They advertise on the net and some of the forums. They are located in Ohio. I spoke with the owner, Daniel, who said that he could help me get the boat from Maryland to Florida. He stated he was coming to Fort Meyers the following week anyway and we worked out a deal where I purchased a trailer form him that he pulled to Maryland where my boat was loaded and brought to Florida. The agreement was that the trailer would be adjusted to fit the boat prior to its transport (kinda makes sense).
At 5:30am on a Sunday morning I got a phone call from some guy that my boat is in the driveway (not Daniel as I had been told would be doing the transport). I go out and find him trying to back into my driveway in the dark and he's all crossed up. I tell him to just leave it where it is and I'll straighten it out when we get some light. I had already paid a deposit via Paypal and had a cashiers check for the balance of the trailer. The transport was a cash deal which I paid upon arrival. I got my packet from the driver with all my info on the trailer and thats where the problems start. No MSO. Just a copy of an MSO. We contact Daniel who says he will get it all to me asap. Then I notice (as the sun comes up) the boat is loaded in a manner that I can only describe as dangerous. The only part of the main bunks touching the hull is at the transom. The boat is basically sitting on the transom at the rear and the very front of the center bunks up front. There is no damage likely because it is a very light boat. It's s also sitting about 1.5' too far forward. 1.5' of bunk hanging out behind the transom. The driver said he wanted the extra tongue weight so it would trailer better

He was towing a 3k pound boat with an F350 dually.
The next day I find that when he was backing into my driveway he ran over some concrete curbing and cracked it. I didn't see him do it but the tire tracks, position he was in when I came out, and fresh crack tell me it was him. I never brought this up with Daniel because I didn't see it happen and the damage was minimal.
Several weeks and several phone calls go by before I finally receive my paperwork. In th meantime I take the boat down to the ramp and spend a couple hours getting the boat right on the trailer. I got pulled over for no plates on the way but no ticket as I explained the situation. I made the mistake of not taking pictures. I got all the way down to the ramp and realized I left the camera at home. I was frustrated and just went ahead and adjusted everything. I found the u-bolts that held the winch support beam were loose. Once the boat was off, I was able to slide the support back and forth.
When I returned home, I attempted to mount the spare tire with the mount that was sent. You would think that since I paid for a spare tire and tire mount that it would have been delivered with it on the trailer. The tire carrier was too short and wont work. More calls to Daniel, messages left, calls not returned, etc etc. I finally caught up with him on his cell phone the week of the Cincinnati boat show where he stated he was. He told me he had already sent the new carrier. I waited another couple of weeks and called him last week. He said he had sent it and had to check with his "shipping department". Danil told me that he talked to his driver who stated he loaded the boat forward so itwould tariler better (same thing he told me). He said without pictures he could do nothing even though the driver stated he had loaded the boat too far forward. At this point I told him to not waste his time. I would take less effort on my part to go to Walmart and spend the $5.99 for a carrier rather than try and deal any further with him. I explained that I had hoped he would step and and take care of this. I had never asked him for anything even though services I paid for were not performed. I had asked that he get a price for me on a stainless steel u-bolt kit and thought that maybe he would help me out with that but I never managed to even get a price out of him. Basically, once he had my money, nothing else mattered.
When I last spoke with Daniel I explained that a happy customer is their best advertisement and that an unhappy customer was their worst. I told him that dealing him him after the sale had been the worst customer service experience I had ever encountered. I told him I would be posting my experience with Pirate Marine on many internet forums. I will invite Pirate Marine to respond to this thread and look forward to his explanation. I waited a week since our last contact to give Daniel plenty of opportunity to step up and make some attempt. My deposit was paid via Paypal and at this point I am strongly considering disputing the $500 for services and equipment not received. This has gone on for almost two months.

Every person...every business, makes mistakes. Its how you handle those mistakes that is the true measure of your worth.

itwonder · 02-11-2006, 11:34 PM

What brand trailer? I would call the manufacturer and complain that the dealer would sell you a trailer and not adjust it for the boat or replace incorrect parts. Sounds like nobody was assigned to adjust it. Next time buy your trailer from East Coast Trailers, a THT sponsor.

solarfry · 02-11-2006, 11:38 PM

"Every person...every business, makes mistakes. Its how you handle those mistakes that is the true measure of your worth.""

It's a learning experience..

With many dealers Customer Service is an accident.

After a few more marine purchases from other dealers (I assume you will never buy from Daniel again regardless of price offered) you will find which places work and which don't. By then you will be willing to pay anything to those that deliver and avoid others like you would avoid pain.

If no one exposes those that provide bad customer service, they continue to inflict misery on others.

There are those that excuse shoddy service and bad merchandise because in their mind they saved money. Is not trouble and inconveniences plus time lost a cost of purchasing? How much will it cost to buy back fishing and boating time lost? Can you buy it back at any price?

Some businesses deserve Chapter 7 bankruptcy.

Mr. Demeanor · 02-12-2006, 12:18 AM

My dealings with this boat purchase have been either hot or cold. I had nothing but problems with the seller, Pirate Marine, and the marina where the boat was stored. I have had the most extrodinary customer service from Concept, Lowrance, Offshore Concepts, and I will be giving LoadRite an oppurtunity as far as the trailer. I have emailed Pirate Marine with a link to this thread. I feel its only fair as I always like to hear both sides of a story.

homey · 02-12-2006, 01:07 AM

Sorry to hear about your experience....There are very few in the marine business that provide good customer service, most are fair and many are poor...Knowing that, and the high cost of boating...I would have picked up and towed the boat myself to Florida....Chalk it up for experience....

gf · 02-12-2006, 01:28 AM

Bad mouthing the guy here on the Web isn't going to get you anywhere.

Call the Load Rite factory in PA and see what they say: 215-949-0500

606zpx · 02-12-2006, 08:26 AM

I am not certain what you want him to do for you at this point. Do you expect him to come on here and give you an apology on the internet? Do you expect him to try to explain things that went wrong so that you can enter into an internet argument/discussion?

I do agree with you on the following but I dont think this thread is going to carry you very far. By the way, please consider buying a wheel. And yes, next time buy local or at least from Steve at East Coast (a sponsor about whom I have yet to read the first bad experience)

1. The trailer should have been set up right. The boat should not have been shifted forward for tongue weight. THat excuse almost sounds fabricated. There is an optimal set up for each boat/trailer combination and it sounds like yours didnt arrive this way.

2. Yes the spare should have been mounted.

3. Yes, the paperwork should have been part of the delivery.

4. No, your concrete curbing shouldnt not have been broken but you are probably SOL on that one.

5. Yes, the dealer should return phone calls and satisfy your situation, but that's too late now.

If he didnt return your phone calls I imagine he wont be showing up here to respond to you. After all, what can he do now to satisfy you?

Brad1 · 02-12-2006, 08:37 AM

Quote:

Mr. Demeanor - 2/11/2006 9:16 PM ....It's s also sitting about 1.5' too far forward. 1.5' of bunk hanging out behind the transom. The driver said he wanted the extra tongue weight so it would trailer better

He was towing a 3k pound boat with an F350 dually. ....

Did you determine if the tongue weight is correct (5 to 7 % of total towed weight)? The 1.5 foot of bunk sticking out beyond the transom might look odd, but does not hurt anything by merely protruding beyond the transom. If the tongue weight was correct, then it would have been necessary to position the boat that far forward, and the excess 1.5 foot of bunk is just the way it is (maybe). And the fact that the driver was using an F350 dually is irrelevant. Too light a tongue weight (which moving the boat forward evenwould correct) is a dangerous situation which leads to trailer sway and the potential for loss of control, or even the potential for the trailer to come detached. So if the tongue weight was correct, you might not have a beef with the 1.5 excess bunk.

Now, I have seen bunks that had offset bolt holes to account for exactly what your describing.In other words, the distance from the front bolt holes to the front edge of the bunk is different than the distance from the rear bolt holes to the rear edge of the bunk. By making them uneven, there is some (yetlimited) adjustability in the trailer so that the amount of excess bunk protruding beyond the transom can be reduced. It would be up to the person setting up the trailer to unbolt the bunk and turn it around the other way. Perhaps if the bunk was turned around the other way, then the bunk would've stopped short of reaching the end of the transom. If that was the case,you would rather have the excess 1.5 foot.

Obviously, the dealer didnot set your trailer up properly. The fact that the boat was only touching the rear bunks at the transom proves that. It sounds like they merely made sure the boat was where it needed to be on the trailer (rearward/forward wise) to ensure proper tongue weight, but did nothing to adjust the trailer to fit the hull properly. Perhaps there is not enough adjustability in that trailer to make it fit your hull correctly. That canbe the case when the trailer is designed for a boat length range and the boat it's being mated with is at the lower end of that range.But even if that was the case, the dealer should have let you know and worked with you to address the situation by exchanging for another trailer before the boat/trailer left their premises. Either way, they didn't do the right thing and you have every right to bePO'd. But PO'd at whom, I'm not so sure. Am I correct that you purchased the trailer from a dealership in Ohio and had it delivered to Maryland to have the boat put on it? If that's correct, it might be the Maryland dealerships fault. Depends on who set the trailer up. But if two dealerships are involved, that would really complicate things as far as who is responsible for incorrectly setting up your trailer.

I can totally relate to your situation. The last three adjustable boat trailers I have purchased were setup wrong by the dealer. One of those three was analuminum I-beam trailer and it was setup (by the dealer) exactly the way you described yours as having been.However, in that case, I pointed out the issue to the dealership before I took delivery and they worked with me to correct it before I left their premises that day. It's almost as if dealerships don't have a clue about how to setup a trailer. Either that, or they don't care. I suspect it's a combination of both.

The boat should be sitting on the majority of the rear bunks, not only at one point. From looking at the pictures of the loadrite trailers in the link you provided, it looks like they didn't bother to lower the front bunk supports. It also looks like the rear bunks have the adjustability I described about (i.e. offset bolt holes).

Quote:

Basically, once he had my money, nothing else mattered.

I know that feeling (from the paying end, not the receiving). Odds of experiencing that increase when your dealing long distance.

Fever Mike · 02-12-2006, 09:21 AM

Quote:

gf - 2/12/2006 12:28 AM

Bad mouthing the guy here on the Web isn't going to get you anywhere.

Call the Load Rite factory in PA and see what they say: 215-949-0500

I do not considered Mr Demeanor "bad mouthing" Pirate Marine on here. I have read many of Mr. demeanors post's on here and many other websites and he does not appear to be the type to make up story's. I con sider these websites like THT a great place to learn about boats and the people who sell them. I thank those that have the buts to post there good and bad experiances on websites because it sure will save many of us the heartache they have been through.

Weekend-Hooker · 02-12-2006, 09:39 AM

Quote:

Fever Mike - 2/12/2006 8:21 AM

Quote:

gf - 2/12/2006 12:28 AM

Bad mouthing the guy here on the Web isn't going to get you anywhere.

Call the Load Rite factory in PA and see what they say: 215-949-0500

I do not considered Mr Demeanor "bad mouthing" Pirate Marine on here. I have read many of Mr. demeanors post's on here and many other websites and he does not appear to be the type to make up story's. I con sider these websites like THT a great place to learn about boats and the people who sell them. I thank those that have the buts to post there good and bad experiances on websites because it sure will save many of us the heartache they have been through.

I agree with you Mike, This just may help someone else from experiencing the same problems.
I wish I was aware of the resources on the this site prior to my boat buying experience. There's a wealth of knowledge here and I appreciate being part of it.

Mr. Demeanor · 02-12-2006, 11:59 AM

Lets get this straight even though I thought I made it perfectly clear in my post. I am not looking for anything from Pirate Marine. I even told him I was done dealing with him and told him that I had never asked for anything. What do I hope to gain from this? Nothing! The guy ripped me off and this is my only realistic recourse. I have only stated the facts of what happened as clearly as possible. How many "bashing" posts invite the merchant to respond as I have?
99% of people go through life afraid to say anything when they have a bad experience. I believe that people/business' should be held accountable, given ample time to correct the problem. I gave him time and now a he gets some bad advertising. Pretty simple.
To go a little further, when I bought the trailer I asked about the stainless hardware kit and Daniel told me that it couldn't be done prior to his trip south because the trailer was already in stock, not coming form the factory. When the boat didn't get picked up on time ( a few day delay from the original plan) I was told it was because the trailer just came in from the factory??????

As far as the load on the tongue, thats why the axles can be moved forward and back. First you get the boat sitting on the bunks where it should be and then you move the axles forward/back to get the proper weight distribution. I appear to be in the ballpark with the way it sits now but I do need to get to a weigh scale. Even though I moved it back 1.5' I would say that if anything I have a little too much tongue weight yet. The boat only weighs 3500# with fully loaded and I pull it with an F250 so a little extra tongue is ok for the truck and stability but I don't want to overload the trailer tongue. The fact that I found loose bolts tells me that likely no attempt to adjust was made. The marina told me the driver was there about a half hour or so. I believe it was snowing/sleeting when he picked it up. The way it sat when delivered I would have to back down the ramp another foot and a half to get the boat off the trailer. We get some pretty low winter tides here and the ramp I use is just barley long enough to launch this 23' boat. Thats the main reason I bought it instead of a 27' Concept I was looking at. The ramp is a few blocks away. If I can move the axles up further i will so I can sink the trailer further without going off the back of the ramp. I am hoping Load-rite can tell me about how much to move them once I have a current overall weight and tongue weight.

If Pirate Marine responds I would imagine that he will state something to the effect that he gave me a great price on hauling the boat which he did. Thats usually what people do, try and justify their actions. What I thought I paid for was a trailer setup by the owner of the company. What I got was some guy that hauls for Pirate Marine occasionally (thats what he told me) and a trailer with no setup.

I posted this over on Speedwake as well. I figure the two sites cover most of the fishing and performance market. A guy over there already stated that he had been talking to Pirate Marine at the boat show and was now reconsidering doing business with them.

Fever Mike · 02-12-2006, 12:52 PM

Just don't post this on OSO...you'll get banned! hehehehe

Mr. Demeanor · 02-12-2006, 01:57 PM

Quote:

Fever Mike - 2/12/2006 12:52 PM

Just don't post this on OSO...you'll get banned! hehehehe

I cant post this on OSO

jwb · 02-12-2006, 05:46 PM

I'm not making excuses for the trailer guys but this is why I wouldn't buy long distance, its too easy to promise something over the phone and then blow you off. Its a different matter when you can go to someone's office and discuss it face to face.Also, if you got a "great Deal" its apparently because youre dealing with a less than quality outfit. It takes time (therefore money) to do a job properly. Apparently the marina with the boat didn't feel it their responsibility to set up the trailer, why would they? they didn't sell it. the trailer guy gave a "great deal" and didn't have enough in it to spend the time to set it up or hire a reputable hauler who would. Either I do it myself or hire a someone local and pay a fair price.

Flot · 02-12-2006, 08:30 PM

Well, I'm assuming you got a good deal on the trailer to go through all that trouble...

And I'm assuming you negotiated some sort of decent deal to get the boat towed from MD to FL... (which isn't a trivial trip)

So the real problem here is that they did not set the trailer up for the boat. In my experience that's anywhere from 30 to 90 mins of putting the boat on, floating it off, putting it on, floating it off, etc, with lots of adjusting in between. But generally speaking I think if you buy a brand new trailer for a 23 foot boat, and you put an average 23 boat onto it... it'll make it down the road okay. Hell I just did some re-adjusting last weekend on the trailer I bought a year ago.

If it was actually snowing when the guy picked up the boat... well... I'd imagine it would cost a pretty penny to get someone to go through the work in those kinds of conditions. It sounds like they could have done a better job, definitely, but in the end everything was still okay?

If your boat made it safely, and there was no damage done, then it sounds like the only thing

v70cat · 09-29-2011, 05:40 AM

I am looking to purchase a Loadrite trailer from Priate anyone else deal with Priate?

SeaJay · 09-29-2011, 07:23 AM

I am probably old school in this regard, but buying a trailer sight unseen is something I would not have done. I have hired transport companies to move my boat over the phone with good results, and purchased a trailer locally where I could deal in person with the seller to get it to where it needs to be. That may have been a more expensive option, however for you.

row21 · 09-29-2011, 08:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SeaJay

I am probably old school in this regard, but buying a trailer sight unseen is something I would not have done. I have hired transport companies to move my boat over the phone with good results, and purchased a trailer locally where I could deal in person with the seller to get it to where it needs to be. That may have been a more expensive option, however for you.

X2. This is what I did. I paid the shipper to ship the boat on his own trailer, then I bought the trailer locally so that I could physically inspect it before paying, and have some recourse if something were wrong. I paid a little extra for shipping, but saved on the wear and tear of the trailer that would have occurred had I shipped it on my own brand new trailer.

fishingfun · 09-29-2011, 08:26 AM

If a 3000 pound boat cracked your curbing I'd be pissed at who ever did the curbing. I've watch loaded dump trucks and concrete trucks go over curbs without cracking them.

burningdaylight · 09-29-2011, 09:05 AM

Mr. Demeanor, I am in the same boat, so to speak, as you. Right now I am at the stage where I am waiting for my "seller" to make things right. I have not gone public with my fiasco because what is said cannot be unsaid. I have been very patient and am awaiting a postive outcome. If nothing happens, which is what I suspect will occur, I will be writing the same type of post as yours.

Like you mentioned, what other recourse do you have? What cards do you hold? NONE. Only a chance to warn other buyers away from someone who clearly cashed your check, took your money, then made no effort whatsoever that you were a happy customer.