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I am looking to make an offer on a 1990 Tiara 3300 which has 1300 hours on 454 Crusaders. As far as I know so far, the engines have been well maintained but the Broker mentioned that they are reaching the point where they may need to be rebuilt. So before I make an offer I was wondering if anyone out there has had experience eith rebuildig vs. repowering with new Crusaders. I am most interested in approx. costs. thanks for any input.
We have a 1990 Tiara 3600 Open purchased in July of '04 with 700 hrs. on Crusader 454XL's (7.4L w/carbs). It now has 1200 hrs. and is running great. Maintenance & repairs this past year included 2 impellers, a water pump, 2 thermostats and 2 fuel pumps. Total cost of these repairs was about $1500. Our mechanic feels that these Crusaders are good for thousands of hours with regular attention and frequent oil changes. There are charter captains in our area that have run Crusader 454-powered boats up to the 8,000 hr. mark before they need replacement. That is not to say that you will get 8,000 hrs. from them...but they are capable of that kind of lifespan.
I don't know the rebuild costs for the 7.4's, but I would guess that you can buy a "short block" for somewhere in the $4-5K range.
Cost to replace the 7.4's with new 8.1's is about $12K per motor. The advantage is multi-port fuel injection...better fuel economy than the 4-barrel carbs on the 7.4's. We would love to have the improved economy, but can't justify the replacement cost when our motors are running strong.
Crusaders are great motors...by far the best of the marinized GM-block engines. With proper maintenance and inspection for problems, they will last a long time.
I should add that our boat is a freshwater-only boat, used exclusively on the Great Lakes. No potential issues with risers, manifolds, etc. like saltwater boats...so that certainly contributes to the long lifespan.
it's conservative to consider them kaput at 1300 hours given that you have limited knowledge of their history. BUT, do not replace them until you run them for a while...they may still have A LOT of good hours left on them. 2k hours with good maintenance is in no way out of the question (assuming they're fwc, which i'm sure they are). a lot depends on how hard they were run at--average cruise rpm by previous owner(s).
Everyone, I appreciate the info. I just talked to an authorized Crusader rep about repowering, out of curiousity. I am just trying to understand worst case scenarios here. New 8.1 Crusaders installed ~$35K-40K... I also got a quote for rebuilding the engines..~$20K. From what I am hearing and reading, 1300 hrs is not necessarily alot depending on how the engines were run and maintained. So my next quest is to find this info out!
i agree, that quote is REALLY high. but, like you said, it's good to know worst case, and that is certainly worst case. if you shop around, you could do a lot better.
I have a friend with a late 80's 33 Tiara that has been repowered with 8.1 Crusaders. He is thrilled with the motors. I own a 1994 31 Tiara with 7.4 Crusaders. His boat is faster and more fuel efficient despite being heavier, wider, and an older hull design than mine. My engines have 700 hours, and I am considering pulling them out for a rebuild. They are doing okay, but I have several small issues i am concerned about. I plan on doing a couple of Bahamas trips this year, and want everything right. If I rebuild mine, I can get parts at cost, and the only labor I have to pay is for the crane to get them out, plus whatever machine shop costs there are. If money was not a problem I would put the 8.1's.
35 to 40k?10K or less, you would be able to swap out to diesels!
I don't know what diesels you're going tp drop in for $10K less than $40K, but it would not be anything you'd need to run the boat right. If your talking about the GM diesels, forget about ever trying to sell it as you'll kill the resale value and never be able to get anyone to work on it.
The Crusaders are about $13K per motor (transmission included). That's $26K before you put a wrench to the boat. Another $9K-$14K for installation doesn't seem unreasonable depending on what gets done (i.e. new shafts, guages, cables, etc...). The Crusaders are rated for 385hp at the shaft where your 7.4's are closer to 310hp at the shaft. It would be like a brand new boat.
Also, you wouldn't go with short blocks, you'd go with long blocks otherwise you'd have to have your heads re-built.
FYI:
A factory rebuilt Cummins 5.9 around 315-330hp with transmission and warranty (its either one or two years, I forget) will run around $19K per side. Again, thats $38K before you even put a wrench to the boat. You wouldn't want anything less 300hp per side pushing that boat. If the boats got a gennie, that'll be another $7K-$8K just for the gennie.
Again, thanks for all of the input. That quote I got included transmissions, shafts, props, etc...so it didn't seem too high to me. As for diesels, my wife says no way because of smell. Now that i kknow the rebuild and repower scenarios, I am going to come up with an offer on the boat. Figuring out what the boat is worth is another challenge all together, between NADA, BUC, and what boats are listed for on Yachtworld.com, etc...
You should make sure the survey includes some attempt to check for moisture in the deck core. Several reports over at the Tiara board discuss wet cores (3600 Open) from leaks at the base of the windshield and around hatches. Some core rotting has also be reported/discussed. No point in making an offer on a hull with significant core damage.
__________________ Carpe Diem
01 Tiara 2900 Coronet
djcxxx, thanks for the heads up. I did read about that problem. I am about to go to contract on the boat since we have agreed on a price (survey contingent of course) and I have already spoken to my surveyor, who appears to be familiar with Tiaras. The boat appears to be in great condition, but will keep my fingers crossed during survey.
Tiara 3300 Open-Rebuild or Repower Crusaders 
