What is the meaning of Quality? Is quality in the eye of the beholder?

[solarfry]

We all discuss quality. Quality is this, Quality is that. Do we all have different opinions of quality?

I had in past believed that quality was defined as an item that met the needs of a buyer without requiring repairs or excessive maintenance. An item with high maintenance was a low quality item. An item requiring lots of repair was not a quality item. Yet nowadays aesthetics and price is the primary definer of quality. Are we confusing BLING/Flash with quality?

What is your opinion?

Please no GW, BW, Bayliner or trophy bashing..

I am confused!

[stevec717]

I would loosely define quality as:
-The use of premium materials throughout
-The use of construction techniques that focus on the quality of the finished product over lowest cost
-A design that provides excellent performance as intended for the craft

In general, everything is a compromise. The extremes being doing the job with the absolute cheapest materials and techniques to a fully custom, hand built with no regard to cost. Everything else lies on a spectrum in between with a ratio of cost to quality of materials and construction. I would say anything above the median could be considered "quality" and anything below - "value".

Just my 2c

Steve

[Stratocaster]

In manufacturing, "quality" means:
1) the product is fit for its intended use
2) the product meets specifications with minimal variations around a "mean" or average
3) the product and the process are consistent

"Quality" doesn't mean it costs more, or is more attractive, or more comfortable. That word is "luxury". The two are often confused...especially on THT.

[Glen E]

I think steve nailed it above - use of hi-end materilas put together by skilled atrisans and checked afterwards for the intended use by people who care.

and overall, it's like the gov definition of porn - you know it when you see it...

[Sea Wolf]

solarfry - 11/29/2005 8:48 PM

We all discuss quality. Quality is this, Quality is that. Do we all have different opinions of quality?

I had in past believed that quality was defined as an item that met the needs of a buyer without requiring repairs or excessive maintenance. An item with high maintenance was a low quality item. An item requiring lots of repair was not a quality item. Yet nowadays aesthetics and price is the primary definer of quality. Are we confusing BLING/Flash with quality?

What is your opinion?

Please no GW, BW, Bayliner or trophy bashing..

I am confused!

If you want to see an example of "QULAITY" in a boat, just look at a 350 Chaparral Signature Cruiser. Tuesday, my wife and I had the opportunity to look at a new 350 Signature. It is one beautiful boat. The "fit and finish" of everything on the boat is outstanding. The fabrics are of high quality and the appliances are stainless steel. If we were in the market for a NEW boat, Chaparral would be on the top of our list. ---- Just my opinion. ----- Greg

[reelapeelin]

Quality happens when purpose and longevity drive the mfgring process...quality diminishes when the bean-counters are allowed to tell the engineers to cut costs...

[MONSTAWHALA]

UH-OH


I feel another one of those long , argumentative threads coming.........



Ok.......Quality? Lots of foam in the hull, or an inboard!!!

[ubettcha13]

Quaility is premium componets and materials assembled with great pride and meticulus craftsmanship. They are also put in comparison to lesser products

[Major Woods]

I’m a Quality Assurance Engineer for a company that manufactures parts and assemblies for the auto, marine and aerospace industry. If you own an OB or IBOB then you have some or our products plus other item on your boat.

What I see quite often here on THT is a statement like this "The fabrics are of high quality" Did this person inspect the thread count per inch on the fabric, determine if superior materials were used, determine that a stain blocking agent was injected providing added value, or perform wear analysis? Most likely not, in most cases the material looks good and that was the only deciding factor use to tag the fabric as “Quality”.

Quality is defined as meeting a specification weather that is, wear analysis, performance analysis, cycle count, dimensional or comparison to an appearance standard.

[Stratocaster]

Sea Wolf's example above just proved the point made in my last post: Nice fabric and stainless steel appliances used as examples of "quality". They are not! They are examples of "luxury" and have no relation whatsoever to how well the boat was manufactured to its specification or its fitness for intended use!

Fit and finish might be indicators of quality, but a low quality item can still have great fit and finish.

Not meant to be a criticism of Sea Wolf...just showing how luxury and quality are not the same thing.

[Doug in Bermuda]

Quality is not the flat screen TV, the fastest, the lightest, the most gee whiz electronics, the interior designed by some 'la ti da da' decorator. Quality is how Steve & stratocruiser put it.

The nicely pressed sales people at boat shows don't like me. I'm the guy who wants lift the hatches to get into the engine compartment to see how servicable the engine is. I'm the guy who lifts those fancy cushions to see the storage compartment underneath & then stick my head inside to see how the boat is really put together. I'm the guy who will inspect the neatness of welds on the rails, where cleats are located & how large they are, I want to look behind the circuitbreaker panel & it had better be circuit breakers not stupid fuses.

All that fancy superficial stuff??? It don't impress me much.

[djcxxx]

There are some subjective aspects to the definition of "quality". The ability to withstand the test of time and still perform as designed comes to mind. The aspects of design and construction reflecting the personality, training, and experience of the builder may not be easily quantifiable but are clearly visible in the finished product. I agree with the above postings that we often define quality by very superficial (and unreliable) means, but numbers alone don't always "add up" to a quality product.

[fish factory]

If I build a house and space out the wall studs (@24" instead of 16") thus building a weaker wall...using the saved money to add a lot of moldings and premium paint (eye candy), have I built a quality product? I wonder if some people can see past the cupholders and bling.

Same house, a few of the floor joists have splinters, does that make a poor quality house? Some posters have down-graded boats with fiberglass splinters in bilge.

As a boat builder...if I leave out some deadrise (costs savings) and spend on "fluff" have I created a quality product-compared to a boat with more deadrise and less "fluff"

I was beside a Peterbuilt road tractor and noticed a 3/4" tilt-hood to fender gap. Does this make Peterbuilt a low quality product?

Caterpillar earth moving equipment has a lot of "orange peel" in the paint. Would anyone rate Cat as low quality?

Is "glueing" the 2 halves of a boat (using foam as a structural compontent) together with Plexus and sheet metal screws the same quality as hand cutting stringers, actually glassing them to the hull, screwing and glassing a deck and bolting the deck cap on?

If I leave off the "Carolina Flare" to increase some cabin room, does it add quality?

IMO, forget the cupholders, seating, chrome boat letters (believe it or not, one boat company boasts of such!), and all the little built in "do-dads", and head straight to eastern NC to learn about quality. Carolina Classic, Albemarle, May-Craft, Parker, all have free classes (tours) daily!

[tombro]

To me quality=durability. Is the hull thinly constructed? Are items fastened with screws rather than thru-bolted w/ backing? Is the SS all yacht quality? Are the bowrails welded? Is the wiring neat? Etc, etc.
It's about durability for me, yes it is.

[solarfry]

Major Woods - 11/30/2005 7:18 AM

I’m a Quality Assurance Engineer for a company that manufactures parts and assemblies for the auto, marine and aerospace industry. If you own an OB or IBOB then you have some or our products plus other item on your boat.

What I see quite often here on THT is a statement like this "The fabrics are of high quality" Did this person inspect the thread count per inch on the fabric, determine if superior materials were used, determine that a stain blocking agent was injected providing added value, or perform wear analysis? Most likely not, in most cases the material looks good and that was the only deciding factor use to tag the fabric as “Quality”.

Quality is defined as meeting a specification weather that is, wear analysis, performance analysis, cycle count, dimensional or comparison to an appearance standard.

That's what I learned in college. But not what I hear often on forums. If it looks pretty its quality. No close examination of product. No one looks behind the face.
'
After riding in an 06' Sea Vee all day and an 06' Sea Hunt I can see why the Sea Vee is much more money and is worth it. The quality is under the facade. You don't need to go back to the dealer to fix things continuously. Water is chanelled to sides and discharged overboard. The gelcoat has no bubbles or voids. The wiring is a thing of beauty, Under the floor everything is clean and well glassed. No resin puddles. Maybe it was the particular Sea Vee but it is impressive when you look in hidden places and it is well put together.

Both boat will take you out. But you can expect way less downtime and lost leisure time with the Sea Vee.

Poor quality control costs you leisure time. Poor quality control killed OMC. What price do you place on your leisure time?

[My Limit]

Solarfry,

I'm glad we are opening up this discussion again. Look up the term and you will see it has many meanings. In the long run it's a subjective term. You could pick a booger from your nose and say it's a quality booger if you want. I may tell you it's a low quality booger based on my own criteria.

You may think your wife or significant other is a "quality" woman and I may know otherwise. You understand what I'm saying. Quality just like beauty, are descriptive words that are measured in the eye of the beholder.

The word is subjective, so this post is going to end up just like your last post. Put on your seatbelt!

Have Fun!

ML

[Major Woods]

To a great many people not schooled in the quality field, "Quality" seems subjective, in reality it never is. Working in the manufacturing world I can assure you it is anything but, quality of an item has a highly defined set of attributes with set parameters.

Taking the example posted by "My Limit" above, a booger is only quality subjective if not compared to a set of attributes.
1) How much does the booger weigh?
2) Color of the booger compared to what you want.
3) Consistancy of the booger, wet or dry.
4) Shape.

All items including boats can be broken down to quality attributes that will eliminate most if not all of the subjectiveness of Quality to the novice.

[delmar]

"quality" is not subjective, but it is relative. "high quality" means better than average. a high quality boat is not hard to define and certainly not just an opinion.

[Onewolf]

I think "value" is a much more important attribute than "quality".

But that's a different can o worms.

Doug

[YankeeBoater]

Well, given all the different answers, I think clearly quality *is* in the eye of the beholder .

I agree with stratocaster that quality and luxury are two different things. Leather seats and chrome in a car interior, or teak and cherry in boat, are not a functional improvement, merely an aesthetic one - not that I am immune to that, but the use of expensive, rather than high performance materials is not something I associate with the word quality...

To me quality is in:

1. Design: how well does the boat function and performance meet it's design goals? The more broadly those design goals are defined, the more clever the designers must be (i.e., hard to make a boat good at everything).
2. Manufacturing: Strength, fit, and finish of the execution of the design.
3. Reliability: How much maintenance and repair does it require?
4. Longevity: How long can one cost-effectively keep the product?