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Was at the boat show and ran into a guy with amsoil all over his shirt, obviously a dealer. He said amsoil paid the money to get certified and that their oils now carry the certification. Now for all those Amsoil bashers, any truth to that? Can anyone verify that statement and where would one go to find out if an oil is certified? I have used this oil before in my vehicle and it seemed to prolong the life engine life.
I would not use any non recommended oil (by the manufacturer), in your outboard or inboard. Amsoil has been around for at least 40 years; when garages started pushing it...it was looked at as 'snake oil'. Very expensive then and hard sell. I'm not sure that has changed. Sounds like Amway doesn't it?
"...seemed to prolong theengine life. "Amsoil depends on that! Few people end up with a comparison; other than their literature.
__________________
Boston Whaler, "MUMBLER", 24 Outrage, twin 175 HP Evinrude Ocean Pros
deadwood - think you were handed a half truth, here is the list of certified TCW3 oils. Amsoil is not listed. The only oil that AMSOIL has certified for marine use is their 4 stroke oil
Few people end up with a comparison; other than their literature.
That could be said of just about any oil. When head to head in testing, however, there's a good bit to compare ... and AmsOil usually holds it's own. Amway/Mary Kay dealers used to be compared to Fuller Brush hawkers, too; I'm sure those dealers driving the Chrysler converts (or whatever the prize is now) get a good laugh out of snake oil snake oil comparisons.
Haven't seen an independent test of AMSOIL, all I see is the 10million links to distributiors and the manufacturers claims. Oh yeah I forgot that ball bearing test- give me a break!
The only way I would even consider it is if it had all the API certifications recommneded by the engine manufacturer!
I am an avid boater, motorhead, gun nut, and even raced sailboats for a time. I am also an Amsoil dealer. I will attempt to explain, as I understand, what the deal is with Amsoil and API certification.
You will notice that there are other "small" quite reputable oil blenders also not mentioned on the "list".
I did not see Red Line, Royal Purple, Shaeffer's as well as Amsoil who all make darn good lubricants. These are smaller companies that blend and market synthetic oils just like Amsoil. Their products include many speciality lubricants that are state of the art oils and the latest in synthetic
tribology technology. The reasons these companies products and Amsoil are not "certified" is due to cost of certification and the delays in introducing true new technology into the marketplace. API certification is usually done on a certain formula of additives and base oil stocks that are designed by lubricant additive companies. These formulas are tested and approved by the API to meet a certain standard, say TCW-3, SM (4 stroke oil) or whatever. This formula is then sold to many companies to blend in with their base stocks to sell as an API approved oil.
The additives necessary to meet certain standards are sold as a package to the oil blender who don't have to recertify their products as long as
they use the approved "package" in their products.
From that point on no modifications/improvments are done to the pre approved formulas until the next standard of performance is called for
by the OEM's. These are MINIMUM standards by the way. Amsoil and others choose to stay ahead of the pack, reformulating their products
more often to offer products that FAR exceed the minimum API standards. To make these frequent changes, the cost of recertifying for the
volume of oil sold just doesn't make $$$ sense. It also does not reward innovation or incentive to reformulate better products on a frequent
basis. Amsoil is not the only company to not seek API certification for all if it's product line. So you see other companies do the same thing.
Remember that the API (American Petroleum Institiute) gets its funding mostly from oil blenders/marketers/additive companies. Kind of similar
to the FDA. They promote certification for reasons of protecting the public from unscrupulous makers of low quality products and to
create a minimum standard to ensure our protection as consumers. While this is a great idea it leaves no room for companies like Amsoil
and others to initiate new technology on a reasonable time or cost basis. All Amsoil products are independently tested to meet/exceed
API and other agency minimum standards.
Regarding the MLM issue with Amsoil you must realize that Amsoil was the first synthetic oil marketed to pass API standards.
The oil in 1972 was a 25,000 mile/one year oil that cost $5.00/qt. That was alot of bread in 1972 for a quart of oil. The petroleum/additive
company that helped Amsoil develop the first oil also had marketing rights to this product and was untimatly not successful doing so at this
price point. So Amsoil went MLM, starting very small and growing slowly with a reputation of unmatched quality and durability of it's products
that grew until today where it is the largest "independent" producer/blender of synthetic lubricants in the world. I believe they have
a capacity of 50 million gallons of synthetic oil production per year and still getting bigger. I want to stress that the quality of the products
are the reason for it's success not the MLM part of the story. However I realize that many Amsoil dealers are unabashadly enthusiastic,
and not particularly informed about lubrication when first starting out. Many become dealers or preffered customers to get a discount on
the products for themselves.
There are many Amsoil praisers and bashers and oil becomes a religion to some. While I use Amsoil in just about everything I own now I
have used Mobil 1, Redline and many others since about 1978. In fact I still use Red Line in my Acura TL (gasp!) Amsoil by the way is the
only company I have seen that tries to sell LESS product than more with their long range series of motor oils gear lubes and filters
I find it's funny to know that the president of the United States and all the secret service vehicle's that serve him use Amsoil in federal
equipment and that Amsoil is NOT API approved.
Thanks for perusing this. Please use whatever oil you want and feel good using it. I hope this demonstrate a little on how the
lubrication industry works.
Craig Lewis
Athena
'00 Mainship 390 trawler
While your post was informative, I can't see way it makes a difference. Engine manufactors require API certification, period the end!!!!!!
And I am not sure I would want an oil that the blender/manufactorer changes the formula, on what I would consider a whim, or even their own extensive private research. Kinda like changing horses in the middle of a race if you ask me.
Why, if API certification is so unimportant, does the Amsoil company on their website list API "rating" as the number one item under company info. Seems to me if you don't believe in certification or the value of certification it would be a none issue and not mentioned at all.
The Company of Firsts
AMSOIL has a documented history of innovation and leadership.
First to develop an API-rated 100 percent synthetic motor oil.
Sounds to me like the Amsoil company is talking out of both sides of it's mouth. The above was copied and pasted directly from the Amsoil company website. If Amsoil considers API certification as a costly unnecessary evil, why then does the company allude to having that certification? So they swap the word certified for rated. Like the old indian said "He speakum with fork tongue."
In the long run I am not interested in dealing with a company that plays word games.
As for the Secret Service and The President of the USA, using Amsoil in all their vehicles. You trying to tell me that the POTUS knows what kind of oil is in his limo, and SS agents give a hoot as to what kind of oil is in their goverment cars. BOLOGNA! Some bureaucrat that sells Amsoil on the side is doing some double dealing. Besides that I have enough differences of opinion with our federal goverment to start my own revolution, not fixing to run out and buy some mouse milk snake oil just because they do.
Schaeffer, Redline, Royal Purple-- don't use them either. The way I see it, without API certification, the average Joe has no way to be sure what kinda oil he is getting. Royal Purple, Redline, Schaeffer, and Amsoil may all be upstanding, honorable companies, but allot of people thought Ennron was a good buy too!
__________________ Cape Horn 17, Yamaha F115
with
Elmo the Boat Dog
API certification is the minimum standard required by a manufacturer. If you have a product that is a higher grade than the API cert., how do you convey this information to the general public? THis API thing is a lot like the ISO 9000 certification at many of the plants around here. The company pays a lot of money to be certified every year. Auditors come in and check documentation, SOP's, etc. to make sure you are following ISO guidelines. When you totally crap the audit, they tell you to try harder for next year, take their check for certifying the plant, give you your Certification, and off they go till next year. The place I worked at bombed the ISO 9000 audit all 4 years I was there and as long as the money got spent, we got certified. These certifications are a big kettle of poop.
synoil -
I heard that excuse many times that it costs too much to certify, well there are a lot less known names that have the certification. The problem is AMSOIL marketing would rather spend the money on marketing hype and 10 million websites! Sorry I don't buy it!
Just go look at the NMMA TCW3 certification list ( link in previous post) and you will see many very small companies that have certified!
"Amsoil stays ahead of the pack by reformualting"! Man sounds like brainwashing to me! AMSOIL marketing hypoe in the works! Just like those NU Skin pyramid schemes! There is inly so much they can do to reformulate based on current additives and capabilities! So lets no even go there!
Engine manufacturers are starting to really publish lubricant requirements( example BMW) more so then in the past. There must be a reason!
If AMSOIL and Royal Purple don't want to certify that they meet the engine manufacturers specs, then it's their loss, in my mind they are not willing to stand behind the engine manufacturers specs they are not even on my list! No matter what marketing hype, signs on cars, or races they participate in and website they create. Stand behind the product and do what is required!
Yeah I know they have a great warranty! Anyone can offer a great warranty but you have to prove the product was at fault. Seems to me AMSOIL and the rest are just weighing the risk!
Nuff said!
pooldoo73 -
Sorry but you could not be more wrong about ISO certification. I was on a team for a very large company back when it all started. The audit process was done and the degree of issues was weighed. You had to show a contingency plan and a mitigation plan to address the things that fell out!
If the audit showed a major hole, your certifcation was not issued until the hole was addressed! That's the facts!
So by saying someone failed the audit does not mean the certification would be lifted. They had a certain amount of time to address the issues, and yes the auditors came back to verify the mitigation plans! The audits have certain levels of severity!
BTW just because someone was ISO 9000 certified did not mean thay had a superior product. It only showed that the manufacturer had process in place to keep consitancy throughout the product cycle. It could be the worst piece of junk on the market, but the process had to document the processes to keep it at the same level!
So by comparing an API certification to an ISO certification is like comparing apples to oranges. API requires you to meet a minimum spec. ISO requires you to adhere to your own developed processes! So under ISO widget A from one manufaturer compared to widget B of another does not mean the two meet the same spec!
Amsoil 
