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On June 25, 2005 my wife and I found a beautiful 2005 Sea Ray Sundeck 200 at the Harbor Island Boat Show at Marine Max (MM) San Diego. We negotiated a fair price for the purchase of the new boat, and our Sea Ray BR 180 trade-in. This was an all cash deal and we completed the transaction on June 29, 2005. The sales experience was fairly good, as it appeared that MM negotiated in good faith and did not pressure us.
When we arrived on the 29th to take delivery of the boat the experience began to sour. While inspecting the boat I found a long narrow scratch through the gel coat. MM did agree to repair the scratch when I brought the boat in to put on the forward bimini that was part of the deal. During the inspection I also found that the boat was quite dirty, brambles and twigs from nearby trees littered the interior of the boat, and filled nearly every nook and cranny. The boat had been rinsed but had not been freshly washed nor waxed.
After signing the necessary documents we took “wet” delivery. Upon arrival to the marina the boat refused to start for both the salesman and the general manager. They called for a technician and he diagnosed the problem as a loose throttle/shifter assembly. He rattled the mechanism around and was able to start the motor. I then asked when they would fix the throttle, and was told that they were too busy due to the upcoming July Fourth weekend and would fix it when I brought the boat in for the forward bimini, and gel coat repairs in two weeks. In order to show good faith I agreed, as I was assured that the boat would be functional.
After recovering the boat onto the trailer, we proceeded home. While traveling on the freeway at 50 mph the trailer coupler failed and it (boat and trailer) jackknifed. The boat went perpendicular to the truck on the left side and then the right. I gently slowed and got onto the emergency shoulder of the road. Thankfully, there was no collateral damage to other motorists. Damage to the boat and trailer consisted of scratches in the bow, paint transfer from the truck to the rub rail, a deep abrasion in the gel coat into the fibers, and significant damage to the trailer’s tongue. Damage to the truck consisted of a gouge in the upper left side of the bed, a broken tail light assembly, and various scratches in the paint.
Upon arrival at home I further found that our owners packet had the wrong manual (Sundeck 220) and was missing manuals and warranty information for the trailer, and was also missing the manual for the smart sensor system.
In the morning immediately following this incident I called our salesman and told him of the incident, and he transferred me to the service manager. The service manger agreed to send someone to inspect the damage, and promised to call back. After approximately two hours he did not return my call. So, I called the general manager and explained the situation. I then received a call from the service manager promising a technician at my home that day. As the day wore on no technician arrived, nor a call from the service manager. I called no less than five times in an attempt to find out the status of the technician, and was only connected to the service manager’s voice mail. He never returned any of my calls.
The following morning (July first) I called the general manager and he assured me that the service manager would call me back immediately. After approximately two and a half hours I began to call the service manager, and was connected to his voice mail every time, and over a span of approximately six hours never received a return call. My wife then called and was able to get through only using her first name.
The service manager was curt and said that he was far too busy to respond to our needs, and that we would have to wait until he was ready as the holiday weekend and the summer rush took precedence over our situation. I told him that this was unacceptable, however I was willing to work with him to resolve our problem. I further told him that I was willing to wait until July fifth for a technician to come and inspect our boat and trailer, and again I was met with resistance and told that he was too busy to accommodate our needs. He then suggested that I take the boat to the nearest RV/trailer service center and have it inspected at my cost. He also told me that the missing manuals were a factory problem and not his. I again told him that this was unacceptable.
After this conversation I called the general manager and explained that the situation at hand was unacceptable, and reiterated my conversation with the service manager. He agreed that our predicament was unacceptable and that a technician would be at my residence on the fifth and that the service manager would call me with the details. Needless to say, the service manager never returned the call.
On July fifth at approximately 1000 am I called the service manager to follow up on when I could expect the technician, and was told that no one would be coming, as they were too busy. He further went on to say that he would not be able to give me a date when I could expect anyone. I again called the general manager to follow up on our previous conversation and explained what the service manager had said. The general manager then placed me on hold and stated that his best technician would be coming to my residence shortly, and that the service manager would call for directions, which he did.
Several hours later the technician arrived with the trailer manual and smart craft manual. He was polite and professional. Upon inspecting the trailer, boat and truck he found the damage as previously noted. He further stated that the coupler had failed and that he would replace the tongue and coupler assembly with parts that he had on hand or from another new trailer. He also said that MM would replace my taillight. He then stated that he would return the next day fix the trailer, the truck, and repair the throttle, and any other problems that I might have with the boat. I thanked him and asked him when he thought that he would arrive, and he stated that he thought that it would be in the early afternoon.
On the sixth no-one came to perform the necessary repairs, and when I called to speak with the service manager I only received his voice mail, and none of my calls were returned. On the seventh I called and spoke with the general manager regarding the current nature of the situation. He then transferred me to the service manager who admitted that the coupler had failed, and that no one would be coming, as they were far too busy as this was warranty work. I asked when this might be accomplished and was told two weeks. I then pressed him for an exact date and he refused to give me any date. I further pressed him for at least a “ball park” date, and was curtly told that it was warranty work and was hung up upon.
This angered me and I called the general manager, and was directed to his voice mail. Whereupon I left a voice mail and requested a call back, which I never received. Due to work related commitments I was unable to follow up any further on this date. However, my wife called the service technician and spoke with him. He was angry that our situation had not been tended to and the next day I received a call from the general manager. He stated that since this was a warranty issue the parts had to be ordered and that he had instructed his service team to never give firm dates for repairs as parts availability is sometimes in question. He further stated that he would have the service manager expedite the process, as we had “not yet had an opportunity to enjoy our boat”. He also stated that the service manager would be calling me shortly to setup an appointment to make the necessary repairs.
After this I received no calls from anyone at MM until after I sent an e-mail on July 13, 2005 to Sea Ray complaining about my situation. On July 14 my wife received a call from the technician that had come to our home. He expressed that he was quite angry with the service manager that we still had not been serviced and promised to alleviate the situation. Shortly there after I received a call from a gentleman at Sea Ray customer service. He stated that he would do everything within his power to get us “up and running” by the weekend and that he would send us a new owners packet (which arrived on July 18, 2005).
Shortly after this conversation I received the a telephone call from the general manager he was apologetic for our circumstances and stated that he would have his “best” technician come to our home and change out the tongue. I thanked him and he stated that someone would call to make the arrangements to get this accomplished. Approximately two hours passed and no one returned the call. So, I called the general manager to follow up on when or if someone was coming due to the late hour of the day. He stated that someone was currently being dispatched to my home and that I could expect them shortly.
While speaking with the general manager I explained that the way that we had been treated after the sale was appalling, as calls were not returned, and that any movement in the situation required that I apply significant pressure either through him or by having to contact Sea Ray. I further stated that the amount that we had spent was probably small in their business scheme, as it was only $38,000 in total including our trade in. However, to us it was a very large sum of money. I also stated that we were returning Sea Ray customers and that the whole situation was very disheartening. He agreed that our business no matter the amount spent was important to him and MM and that they wanted to sell us our next boat. However, since we had not been a customer of MM’s for three years, much less for even a year, we were not as high on their priority list. He further stated that I needed to look at from his point of view as we had shown no loyalty to his dealership due to being new customers and his business is based on customer loyalty.
After this conversation a “lot boy” from the dealership arrived at my home to replace the tongue and coupler. He was a very nice young man and quite pleasant. Unfortunately, he had no experience in replacing the parts and I had to help him perform the exchange.
It is now one month and a week since we purchased the boat and we are still without the forward bimini that was promised within two weeks of the purchase. The original scratch in the side of the boat is still un-repaired, the throttle is un-repaired, and the damage caused by the de-coupling of the trailer is un-repaired. Additionally, no one from MM has called to follow-up with us, and we are still not made whole.
I would definately email them a copy of this thread....I have no personal experience with Marine Max, but I am sorry you have to go through this, I would be PISSED!
It's evident that the dealership is not going to work with you, so I would attempt to rectify the situation directly with the factory. I would call them and explain the situation and ask them to correct the problems, since MM is not co-oporating and has not completed repairs promised at the time of delivery.
At this point, I would not count on anything from the dealer. It is apparent they will not live up to their end of the bargain.
Thanks for the sentiments. I have sent this to MM hq, the local dealer, and Sea Ray. Now I'm waiting to hear back. Hopefully, this will light a fire under someone's backside. If not, it's on to the media, more BBS posts, CA Consumer Affairs, Attorney????
And yes, I'm angry, as it is such a beautiful boat, and it drives great. I've got less than 2.5 hrs on the hobbs. The spot in the gel coat that is trough to the fibers, is above the water line.
I second Rival1's comment. A corporation as large as MM definitely has staff lawyers who may or may not be advising the local management team, but cover your bases and consult with one of your own.
EDIT: I did some free research for you. You can buy me a drink sometime!
California Lemon Law for Defective Automobiles, Motorcycles, Boats and Recreational Vehicles (RV's)
Serving Your Lemon Law Needs
Lemon Law requires a skilled lawyer who specializes in the Song-Beverly Consumer Warranty Act, and considers consumer protection the major focus of the law practice. The California lemon law act applies to defective motor vehicles as well as motorcycles, boats, recreational vehicles (RV's) and even to appliances and any other consumer product sold with a warranty. Lemon Law practice and claims have increased considerably in California in the past several years.
Motor Vehicle Warranty and Lemon Law
A purchaser or lessee of a motor vehicle has various rights under both state and federal law if the vehicle does not perform as provided under an express warranty. Warranty law can be complex, and it is impossible to describe comprehensively all of the law in a brief space. The following comments briefly explain the Song-Beverly Consumer Warranty Act and what is popularly known as the "Lemon Law."
This message is not a substitute for your contacting your own lawyer who can best advise you of your rights under the particular circumstances of your case. The Attorney General's office cannot advise you of your legal rights and cannot represent you in a warranty dispute.
1. COVERAGE FOR NEW MOTOR VEHICLES.
A. OVERVIEW OF SONG-BEVERLY WARRANTY RIGHTS
The Song-Beverly Consumer Warranty Act (beginning with Civil Code section 1790) provides protection for consumers who lease or buy new motor vehicles. The law requires that if the manufacturer or its representative in this state, such as an authorized dealer, is unable to service or repair a new motor vehicle to meet the terms of an express written warranty after a reasonable number of repair attempts, the manufacturer is required promptly to replace the vehicle or return the purchase price to the lessee or buyer. The purchase price that must be returned includes the price paid for manufacturer-installed items and transportation but does not include the price paid for nonmanufacturer items installed by the dealer. The lessee or buyer is completely free to choose whether to accept a replacement or a refund. Whatever the choice, the manufacturer is also responsible to pay for sales or use tax; license, registration, and other official fees; and incidental damages that the lessee or buyer may have incurred such as finance charges, repair, towing, and rental car costs.
The lessee or buyer may be charged for the use of the vehicle regardless of whether the vehicle is replaced or the purchase price is refunded. The amount that may be charged for use is determined by multiplying the actual price of the new vehicle by a fraction having as its denominator 120,000 and as its numerator the number of miles traveled by the vehicle before it was first brought in for correction of the problem. For example, if the car had traveled 6,000 miles before it was first brought in for correction of the problem, the lessee or buyer could be charged 5% (6,000/120,000 = 5%) of the purchase price for usage.
The law applies for the entire period of your warranty. For example, if your vehicle is covered by a three-year warranty and you discover a defect after two years, the manufacturer will have to replace the vehicle or reimburse you as outlined above if the manufacturer or its representative is unable to conform the vehicle to the express warranty after a reasonable number of attempts to do so.
Song-Beverly does not apply if the problem was caused by abuse after the vehicle was delivered. Be sure you follow the terms of the warranty for maintenance and proper use of the vehicle.
Although there is a four-year statute of limitations to bring a law suit for breach of warranty or for violations of Song-Beverly, you should act promptly to try to resolve the problem fairly and quickly without legal action if possible.
B. THE "LEMON LAW" AND WHAT IS A REASONABLE NUMBER OF REPAIR ATTEMPTS
What is considered a reasonable number of repair attempts will depend on the circumstances including the seriousness of the defect. For example, one or two repair attempts may be considered reasonable for serious safety defects such as brake failure, depending on the exact situation.
A special provision, often called the "Lemon Law," helps determine what is a reasonable number of repair attempts for problems that substantially impair the use, value, or safety of the vehicle. The "Lemon Law" applies to these problems if they arise during the first 18 months after the consumer received delivery of the vehicle or within the first 18,000 miles on the odometer, whichever occurs first. During the first 18 months or 18,000 miles, the "Lemon Law" presumes that a manufacturer has had a reasonable number of attempts to repair the vehicle if either (1) The same problem results in a condition that is likely to cause death or serious bodily injury if the vehicle is driven and the problem has been subject to repair two or more times by the manufacturer or its agents, and the buyer or lessee has at least once directly notified the manufacturer of the need for the repair of the problem as provided in the warranty or owner's manual or (2) The same problem has been subject to repair four or more times by the manufacturer or its agents and the buyer has at least once directly notified the manufacturer of the need for the repair of the problem as provided in the warranty or owner's manual or (3) The vehicle is out of service because of the repair of any number of problems by the manufacturer or its agents for a cumulative total of more than 30 days since delivery of the vehicle.
The "Lemon Law" presumption is a guide, not an absolute rule. A judge or arbitrator can assume that the manufacturer has had a reasonable number of chances to repair the vehicle if all of the conditions are met. The manufacturer, however, has the right to try to prove that it should have the chance to attempt additional repairs, and the consumer has the right to show that fewer repair attempts are reasonable under the circumstances.
Be sure to check your warranty and owner's manual for instructions. You may be required to directly notify the manufacturer of the problem(s). It is a good idea to send your written notice to the manufacturer at the address shown in the warranty or owner's manual by certified mail, return receipt requested so that you have proof that your letter was received. Keep a copy of all correspondence.
If the manufacturer maintains a state-certified arbitration program, the consumer must submit the warranty dispute to the arbitration program before the consumer can take advantage of the presumption in court. Arbitration is an alternative to court proceedings. The consumer may assert the presumption during arbitration. Information about any arbitration should be described in the warranty or owner's manual.
Not every manufacturer maintains a state certified program. You should check with the Department of Consumer Affairs' Arbitration Certification Program at (800) 952-5210 or on the Internet at www.dca.ca.gov/acp. You can also ask for the department's free pamphlet that explains more about arbitration, "Lemon Aid for
I would start by copying this thread and send carbon copies to both the president of searay( which probably has no idea of the situation YET) and the president of marine max(who has know idea either) and thirdly to the dealership you purchased the boat from. Then demand from the president(and don't deal with his second) of marine max that another dealership come get your boat and fix it because at this point they(being the original dealer) seem to be done with you so you are DEFINATELY done with them. MM can salvage your business as a company if they do what was promised by a represenative of there business(being that dealership) but under no conditions do you want to have further contact with that dealership. Give both presidents 5 business day's upon receiving your letter(sent certified mail) to make arrangements to have your boat, truck, and trailer fixed promptly or you will have NO choice but to contact an attorny. I think this will get the attention of all who need to be involved to fix your situation and like I said carbon copy everything you write to all involved parties and send it certified mail. Phone calls unfortunatley get you no where but carbon copied mail still lets the higher up know how this dealership has treated you as a new client (which seems to be lower than scum and NOT acceptable) and let's the G.M. of the current dealership(or should I say PAST) that he will be getting a phone call from both SeaRay and Marine Max H.Q. to find out if his dealership is compitant enough to continue selling boats for both companies. Alot of the compaints I read here are neither as detailed as your's was or full of facts(leaving out some important details) but you have a SERIOUS complaint to push forward to the higher-ups of a few companies and they need to deal with you on a one on one basis daily until you are COMPLETELY satisfied or you need to hire a lawyer to meet them in court and show a Judge there continued negligence! Please keep me posted on what is the final resolve of this issue, and I wish you the best of luck on a satisfying outcome.
THANKS, to all of you for your wisdom and advice. As for the lemon law I was about to go there, but was unsure about it's relation to watercraft (THANKS MiHingLo. You must be a consumer advocate lawyer.). My orriginal post was actually a copy of a letter that was sent to MM's CEO, and their various VP's. It also went to Sea Ray and a gentleman that I orriginally dealt with there. Hardcopies of this thread are also going to be sent to all parties concerned. And as is becoming apparant phonecalls are not effective. I have spent quite a bit of time in MM's voice mail purgatory.
Again THANK YOU. I don't know if this is MM's norm for business, but if anyone is looking to buy a boat in the San Diego area I'd steer clear of them.
Well, I hope MM is getting the message. I've faxed, e-mailed and snail mailed about everyone I could think of in the MM food chain, Sea Ray and Brunswick Marine division that I could find. It's amazing I started getting calls Monday morning from MM District mgmt and Sea Ray and then the local dealer. Tuesday morning they came and picked up my boat to begin the repairs. However, I'm not convinced that anything will be done in a timely manner, and I pray that the work is not slipshod. As for the forward bimini, it wasn't ordered as promised and I'll have to wait another six to eight weeks to get it.
Come Tuesday I'll have a better idea as to how committed MM is as they'll have had the boat for a week.
THANKS to all for your words of support and encouragement. It's greatly appreciated.
Based on my personal experience with MM in CA, the above scenario is SOP for them. All that they seem to want is your money. Once they have that, you go to the bottom of the list.
Unfortunately, that is exactly what happens when someone buys out all of the competition. The consumer gets screwed.
With MM being Sea Ray's largest dealer, don't expect much help from them. Why cut off the hand that feeds you???
i'm glad i'm not the only one. stay away from the MM in clearlake, tx. with all the hype behind GW's we thought we'd just found heaven, after they got the check hell followed. and we are still in hell. its unbelievable. we had to get the factory guys involved, and that helped some, but bottom line is MM getting the money than the customer has to wait till they are ready to help you. the problem lies in the fact that they carry so many boat lines that buying a quality boat means nothing to the service guys, they have to work on them all. the dealer we went to installed our electronics, big mistake, the guys were idiots, i had to rewire the gps antenna to get it to work. mulitiple problems on the water test, its crazy. stay away.
I have purchased many boats over the years, and have come to the conclusion that i will NOT deal with someone on a boat that does not have a vested intrest in the dealership they are representing.
Good point. Some day I would like to buy a new boat. Local dealers scare the crap out of me. The only thing worse is the national dealers. Marine Max and Olympic = Problems.
I think for the "deal" Ill go Ed's have it delivered and install EVERY option myself. Basically just buy the hull, trailer and motor and do the rest myself. Pay for it and never see Ed's again.
Youd think if you laid out some serious coin people would treat you with respect. I guess not.
MarineMax is the largest Recreational Boat dealer in the United States--and buying out dealers all over the country. My only experience was request for service. I talked to a secreatary, then a person at the service desk and was told the service manager would call back within two hours. It has been 10 days--and no call back. Someone else got my business, and I would never buy a boat from MarineMax.
I second Rival1's comment. A corporation as large as MM definitely has staff lawyers who may or may not be advising the local management team, but cover your bases and consult with one of your own.
While it would not surprise me to hear that they have staff lawyers, in my experience people in the field rarely consult their lawyers before acting -- whether they be in-house or outside. (Of course that works to my benefit, I am a lawyer! )
When I have problems with a person at a company and he/she is taking an unreasonable position (or is unresponsive), I ask to speak to their lawyer. It changes the dynamic in most instances -- which is usually a benefit when the current dynamic is unsatisfactory.
EDIT: I did some free research for you. You can buy me a drink sometime!
California Lemon Law for Defective Automobiles, Motorcycles, Boats and Recreational Vehicles (RV's)
Serving Your Lemon Law Needs
The law applies for the entire period of your warranty. For example, if your vehicle is covered by a three-year warranty and you discover a defect after two years, the manufacturer will have to replace the vehicle or reimburse you as outlined above if the manufacturer or its representative is unable to conform the vehicle to the express warranty after a reasonable number of attempts to do so.
While this is useful information in the abstract, the sections that you quote deal with warranties which cover defects in the product as manufactured. The problems that this purchaser is having are not with the product as manufactured, but with the dealer not delivering what was supposed to be delivered according to the contract (and, in the case of the gash in the side, abuse after manufacture). Thus this purchaser has an action on the sales contract, not on the warranty. The only part of his complaint that sounds in warranty is the complaint about the improper trailer coupler (breach of implied warranty of suitability for a particular purpose) but that problem has been addressed.
If you have not already joined a Sea Ray owners group, most likely on Yahoo, do so & relate your story. Poor after sales service is common among boat builders & dealers. They really need to take a look & see how most RV builders & dealers value their customers.
Marine Max and Poor Service 
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