*THE HULL TRUTH is the world's largest FREE network for the discussion of Boating & Fishing. Whether you're researching a new boat, or are a seasoned Captain, you'll find The Hull Truth Boating & Fishing Message Forum contains a wealth of information from Boaters and Sportfishermen around the world.
Welcome to the updated THT!
If you are having trouble signing in, please email feedback@thehulltruth.com with your username and we will help you. We thank you for your patience as we help you access the new site!
Random Quote: I joined the Navy to see the world. What did I see? I saw the sea.
I'm gearing up to teach USPS Piloting this September and could use a few "Horror Stories" resulting from GPS failure or misuse. I think too many boaters have too much faith in these delicate electronic devices. Any posts would be appreciated and just might save someone a lot of grief someday.
Ive been lost hunting in the woods but never on the water. I'm in the Florida panhandle, so if you get lost, you just head north. You'll hit the beach at somepoint. GPS's are great for finding you're "spots", however, I think if guys rely on them for more than that they are asking for it.
I launched off an aircraft carrier in the med to fly into northern Iraq about 15 yrs ago. I had to fly into Turkey, stay North of Syria, head toward Iran and then South into Iraq. I lost my nav (inertial) right off the cat shot and had to DR all they way. If my life depended on it, I'd take a good wrist watch and a compass over an electronic box any time.
I have found GPS units to be exceeding reliable. I do have a hand held backup should the boat power go down. Great technology. Just be sure to have extra batteries for the handheld; at least two extra sets. The are not delicate insturments either. Having said that, I would also have a compass on the boat, too. I would also recommend a MAP GPS only. I believe the 'faith' that people have in a GPS is well deserved.
__________________
Boston Whaler, "MUMBLER", 24 Outrage, twin 175 HP Evinrude Ocean Pros
i beelive that once you have set a waypoint too many people do not lookat the charts to see if there is anything between them and the next waypoint, particularly if they don't compare it aganst charts. 7 years ago I bought a hand held and a new baot. Never been to the keys.Set the waypoints on the way down and inputted a point wrong which took me way to the east and into the shoals fo florida bay. Hit the shoals at 30 mph,broke a rib on the windshield and spoiled the day....
I am a pilot so I understand DR (dead recokoning). I have two chartplotters on my boat plus a combination GPS/Loran. I have had a chartplotter lose the satellites or something. I just went to a back-up. Unless you get a lighting strike they are good to go. Paper charts and a good compass are still required. In a boat if things really get bad you can throw out an anchor. I an airplane bad things happen real fast and there ain't5 no place to pull over. Forget the horror stories and teach the class DR like it should be taught.
I agree with wagon1, Never had a horror story but several times have seen the ingredients for one while flying. And they would apply to boating
.1- if you don't have a back up source of power, and an alternate means of navigation as a cross check and back up.
2- Also seen this happen many times, someone entering the wrong lat or longs for way point or destination. The most reliable system is worthless if bad information is plugged in then activated.
Don't have any horror stories but I would not characterize them as delicate. I'm ok if I head West, somewhere I will hit land.
But-I also have a chart, compass, back-up GPS and 2 VHF radios and a raft. Oh yeah, and an EPIRB w/GPS.
Not really a horror story but just this past friday we went out to the fingers in two small boats.The guy in the 24 albemarle's gps went out early in the morning and just wouldn't stay powered up unless he kept pushing a function button.Like I said two boats so no big deal,but this was his first trip so if he was alone and the weather kicked up?????
The disaster story waiting to happen is when the GPS fails for any reason and the boater is left to use a chart and a compass. Unfortunately, most of the boaters I've talked to recently don't even carry a chart and a fair number of them think that what we call a compass is some sort of decoration on the helm.
__________________
The views and/or opinions stated by the author in this post are only the views and opinions of the author
I use my gps and keep a backup handheld gps. Even with this, I still track my progress on a chart. Satellites DO fail and when they do, they often give erroneous data prior to someone realizing it and the satellite being shut down.
Also, in the event of a massive electrical problem, unless you have a portable with working batteries you are sol.
I think it would be hard to think of a GPS failure horror show. I think a user error is a lot more likely to cause a problem. I don't know of a GPS failure, but I can think of two related to aircraft nav errors/misuse that could apply to a GPS plotter.
The first was the downing of Korean Airline Flight 109 in the '80's. Supposedly, the pilot misentered a coordinate for lat or lon into the aircraft INS (a fancy dead recocking device that uses gyros and accerometers). This cause his track to overfly Russion territory and resulted in the downing of the airline by Russian interceptors. True or not, this certainly is a plausible explanation.
The second case was before that when I was a pilot flying a small private plane at night over New England. I accidently entered an incorrect frequency in the aircraft VOR radio that caused me to fly out over the ocean for a while before I figured out that things were out of wack (and Boston was disappearing to the West behind me). I think I just transposed a frequency of 112.7 into 121.7 or something similar.
I sometimes look at my boat's chartplotter cruising along at 35kts and wonder where I am - i.e. what'd I tell the coast guard in a mayday call. I can't tell them I'm 18 SW of my waypoint called BuzBay6. I think it's important to look at the chart and at least keep an idea of what page of the chartbook or which fold of the map you're on to get a reference to a major landmark or buoy, and where you'd tell the coast guard to look for you.
I think it would be hard to think of a GPS failure horror show. I think a user error is a lot more likely to cause a problem. I don't know of a GPS failure, but I can think of two related to aircraft nav errors/misuse that could apply to a GPS plotter.
The first was the downing of Korean Airline Flight 109 in the '80's. Supposedly, the pilot misentered a coordinate for lat or lon into the aircraft INS (a fancy dead recocking device that uses gyros and accerometers). This cause his track to overfly Russion territory and resulted in the downing of the airline by Russian interceptors. True or not, this certainly is a plausible explanation.
The second case was before that when I was a pilot flying a small private plane at night over New England. I accidently entered an incorrect frequency in the aircraft VOR radio that caused me to fly out over the ocean for a while before I figured out that things were out of wack (and Boston was disappearing to the West behind me). I think I just transposed a frequency of 112.7 into 121.7 or something similar.
I sometimes look at my boat's chartplotter cruising along at 35kts and wonder where I am - i.e. what'd I tell the coast guard in a mayday call. I can't tell them I'm 18 SW of my waypoint called BuzBay6. I think it's important to look at the chart and at least keep an idea of what page of the chartbook or which fold of the map you're on to get a reference to a major landmark or buoy, and where you'd tell the coast guard to look for you.
How about this:
1)There are wrecks that you can dive on (if you are a scuba diver) where you can see direct evidence of what happens when people put too much faith in instruments. This happened when someone thought their radar was on the 24 mile setting and they were really on the 2 mile setting. Two ships collided and one sunk.
2) Someone not used to using his gps for navigation entered two waypoints, and followed the gps trail. the gps didn't care that his path went over land.
3) Someone making a trip from the cape back to the north shore and their gps died. Got out the portable only to find the batteries almost dead.
4) The fella that graces our 20 dollar bill was killed by friendly fire. Nowadays giving your own coordinates rather than the coordines of the site to be bombed can put you in the same predicament.
Is that enough?
fishing a king tournament last week the chip reader failed on the chart plotter so all that showed on the screen was the bare detail free base map. We were depending on the detail maps of the chip for out fishing locations. no paper chart on the boat. Not life threatening but a real bummer.
__________________
Charlie Wegman, Product Engineer
SMITH Boating and Fishing Accessories
Greensboro, NC
Well, my handheld died before a dive; couldn't take my buddies to the site we were going to dive that day (located by GPS; no sight lineups there, that I know of.)
Regardless of the scenario, there should always be a manual back up, i.e. charts and compass. It is irresponsible to navigate a boat with only electronic means. I have always used electronic nav devices as a back up to paper charts and compass. Paper charts and compasses don't fail!!
__________________
Hubs Tub
Scout 162 w/90 Yammie
Johns Island, SC USA
No horror stories yet but I carry 3 backup gps units, 2 hand held backup vhf, 1 hand held compass, sat phone and 2 epirbs and of course paper charts. I pray I never need to use any of that but better safe the sorry.
I think it depends on where you're boating. Many people boat on small lakes where land is never out of sight. Others boat on rivers where you either go upstream or downstream and to return home you just turn around and go the other way. They have "local knowledge" of obstructions.
Anyone boating in strange (to them) waters or offshore certainly needs charts and a compass in addition to a chart plotter.
GPS Failure Horror Stories
The are not delicate insturments either. Having said that, I would also have a compass on the boat, too. I would also recommend a MAP GPS only. I believe the 'faith' that people have in a GPS is well deserved. 
