Tow vehicle scenario, which would you do, will truck A. tow the boat? - The Hull Truth

cheesewithout · 04-26-2005, 08:40 PM

I've been down this road before on THT and I always print the answers, but I can't find them to this question....... Will my Ford F150 stick, tow a 21 CC (2600lbs.), motor, trailer, gas? It didn't seem that great on my 18 Sea Pro I just sold, so I can't imagine it being that good on this....

I have an opportunity to buy an 8 cyl 4X4 from my dad at father/son price, but if I was confident in my F150 I wouldn't.

Coconuts · 04-26-2005, 08:56 PM

What year and what kind of motor do you have in the F150?? Do you have any idea what the tow capacity is (usualy on a sticker on the door)? I would think just about any full sized truck can handle a 21 footer. On the otherhand, a 4X4 is has an advantage on a slippery ramp.

bmaster · 04-26-2005, 08:57 PM

i would say yes just from the info provided. i have a 03 f150 super crew with 5.4 auto and tow pkg. i haul a 23 mako w/a with twins. thats a good bit heavier than your 21, and i have no problems. the stick shift you have does make things a bit trickier at the ramp though

two beryls 13 · 04-26-2005, 09:02 PM

Last friday we towed our 23 foot center console with an inline diesel inboard with a 1995 F150 auto 2wd supercab for 70 miles and it went along at 60 but drank gas the whole way (thank god for two tanks). The boat had 60 gallons of diesel and truck had two guys and the dinghy. So you should be able to tow it just allow your self a lot of space for braking.

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86' 236 Mako CC w/Penta TAMD 40A Diesel Inboard

grahamular2 · 04-26-2005, 09:04 PM

Quote:

cheesewithout - 4/26/2005 8:40 PM
...
I have an opportunity to buy an 8 cyl 4X4 from my dad at father/son price, but if I was confident in my F150 I wouldn't.

I think you answered your own question...since it doesn't sound like you're very confident in your (6cyl?) F150's ability to tow it, if you can get a good deal on the 8cyl F150, that would appear to be the way to go. Your F150 likely CAN tow it, but it's a safe bet you'd be beyond the rated tow limits and creating more stress then you probably need on you and the truck...can you wait until you have the boat and just try out both trucks first?

bmoody · 04-26-2005, 09:42 PM

My '97 F-150 with 5speed and 4.X Liter (v-6) is rated below 3000 pounds. This frustrates me, since in my aggrivated mind my ranger was rated nearly as high with v-6 and 5 speed. As I think about getting a 21CC of my own, I'm forced to think about using my girlfriends Durango to tow it.

welder · 04-26-2005, 10:37 PM

the only sub. for cubic inches is............more cubic inches

slickster · 04-26-2005, 10:46 PM

It will tow it up and down the road OK, you will have to slip the clutch at the ramp for sure....I fried mine, got an automatic now....a 4X4 in low range really helps....Mick

dwh_1987 · 04-27-2005, 05:05 AM

Get the V8 4x4. F150s are great tow machines, but you have to get the right package for your load. Also, like slickster said, 4x4-low is unstoppable. It's like turning your truck into a tractor. The one thing to be very careful of is that if you try to do much driving in that mode on dry pavement, you can bind up your drivetrain because it's really designed for loose traction situations.

The Fishin Place · 04-27-2005, 07:20 AM

My 2002 F150 SuperCrew would tow my 2300 CC Key West with 225 Honda, but it wasn't as good as I had hoped. It had trouble maintaining speed over 65 in overdrive and the RPMs were way up there in tow mode. If I could ever get it running around 70 in overdrive, the first freeway overpass would downshift it and the RPMs would go out of sight. It was such a worry for me, that I traded for a F250 6.0 diesel and now it doesn't even know it's back there. The mileage for the F150 was around 10 pulling to the Keys, while the F250 gets as much as 16 doing the same thing. IMHO I worry about people towing with a vehicle that is near it's rated capacity. Every accident involving a towed vehicle has resulted from either an over weighted tow or drive experience. I give a wide path to the guys that insist on towing a 26 foot Grady with an S-10 or a Jeep. I know the F150 is rated at 8500 lbs, but rating isn't everything when you have overpasses to climb and stops to make in traffic. Better to be safe than sorry.

PS: Remember I live in the flat lands of Georgia. If you have any hills it only gets worse.

twentynine · 04-27-2005, 08:08 AM

Yes your F-150 will tow the rig, maybe not to good but it will tow it. If money is available to purchase the bigger truck go for it.

Your total weight for your new rig, will be over 3500#, I have a 17' Cape Horn and loaded for fishing, boat, motor, trailer, and gear weighs in at 3500#. Used to tow with a 3.9L, V-6 Dodge, it would tow it, and it controlled the rig very well, just didn't have any power to tow more than 65 MPH. Traded up to a 5.7L Hemi, now I got power, disk brakes all around help out also.

bmoody
Why would a F-150 be able to tow more weight than a Ranger if they have the same engine and tranny?

The Fishing Place
I wouldn't tow anything in OD. I am not sure about Ford, cause I never owned one, but I do know that my Dodge owners manual says "NO TOWING IN OD". I take that to mean don't tow anything regardless of weight in OD. Book says the tranny can and will overheat. Once again I don't know about Ford but I do know that the Dodge equipped with the Cummins diesel uses the same tranny as the gas burning trucks.
Also that is a very broad statement claiming that EVERY accident is due to a truck towing a trailer that is to big or the driver being a dummy. What about the ones due to tire failure, coupling problems and what about the ones that are the other vehicles fault. You can tow a bumble bee with a Mack truck but if somebody hits you, is it because you were stupid for towing that bumble bee?

The Fishin Place · 04-27-2005, 10:44 AM

bmoody
Why would a F-150 be able to tow more weight than a Ranger if they have the same engine and tranny?

The Fishing Place
I wouldn't tow anything in OD. I am not sure about Ford, cause I never owned one, but I do know that my Dodge owners manual says "NO TOWING IN OD". I take that to mean don't tow anything regardless of weight in OD. Book says the tranny can and will overheat. Once again I don't know about Ford but I do know that the Dodge equipped with the Cummins diesel uses the same tranny as the gas burning trucks.
Also that is a very broad statement claiming that EVERY accident is due to a truck towing a trailer that is to big or the driver being a dummy. What about the ones due to tire failure, coupling problems and what about the ones that are the other vehicles fault. You can tow a bumble bee with a Mack truck but if somebody hits you, is it because you were stupid for towing that bumble bee?

[/quote]

As far as the F150 to Ranger comparison, it's not just the pulling part that comes into play, it's the stopping part that is most important. That and a stability problem. Vehicle weight compared to what you are towing along with tongue weight are all factors in the tow rating. To say a F150 and Ranger are equal because of the same motor and tranny is only a third of the equation. What about weight and braking surface, as well as tongue weight capacity? Just cus the ball fits doesn't mean you are safe....

As far as towing in OD, the newer Fords, according to the dealer, can deal with towing in OD. I asked that specific question about my 2002 F150 in case the tranny burned up. They said the trucks with the towing package have coolers and are designed to pull in OD. They said why else would they call it a towing package with an automatic tranny, if they were limited to which gear they could tow in. With Ford the F250s with the 6.0 diesel have Torque-Shift Allison trannies that will pull in any gear you would like. The "Tow Mode" for those trannies are for down hill control of the load rather than using brakes. The tranny down shifts to slow the load going down hill in the tow mode. The tow mode is not needed when on flat land or going up hill and the tranny will pull great in OD.

Yes, I guess that was a board statement and I should have qualified better. What I was trying to say was that a small, light vehicle pull something large and heavy, can be a very dangerous accident waiting to happen. I didn't mean the driver was a dumby, it's just most people don't realize that a 2 ton tow increases the stopping distance by as much as a factor of 3. I saw an accident where a jeep was towing a medium sized cabin inboard down a steep bridge running about 65 then trying to stop. After pushing the Jeep out of the way and smashing two other vehicles and killing a couple of people "Bubba" got out of the overturned Jeep and wonder what happened and why. DUH!!!!

dwh_1987 · 04-27-2005, 11:08 AM

Couldn't agree more with Fishin' Place. Towing is way more about suspension, truck frame, and brakes than it is about big engines. Obviously you've got to have enough engine and transmission to get the load moving and keep it going up the hills, but very often that's less than half the battle. Stability at speed is something else that's very critical to achieve. Honestly, I don't think towing a boat over about 60 MPH is a good idea in any event. Allison makes GM's heavier truck transmissions. I haven't been able to figure out who makes the Ford transmission, but I'm pretty certain it's not Allison. Allison was a GM company, and they sold most of it to Rolls Royce. On GMC's website, they still call their trannys Allison, so I take it they kept some part of the company.

The Fishin Place · 04-27-2005, 11:34 AM

Quote:

dwh_1987 - 4/27/2005 11:08 AM

Couldn't agree more with Fishin' Place. Towing is way more about suspension, truck frame, and brakes than it is about big engines. Obviously you've got to have enough engine and transmission to get the load moving and keep it going up the hills, but very often that's less than half the battle. Stability at speed is something else that's very critical to achieve. Honestly, I don't think towing a boat over about 60 MPH is a good idea in any event. Allison makes GM's heavier truck transmissions. I haven't been able to figure out who makes the Ford transmission, but I'm pretty certain it's not Allison. Allison was a GM company, and they sold most of it to Rolls Royce. On GMC's website, they still call their trannys Allison, so I take it they kept some part of the company.

Glad to hear someone else agrees......Thanks. As far as the Allison tranny situation maybe I can clearify a little bit. Allison makes GM 2500 and bigger trannies, but they are made to GM specs. Recently Allison either failed to renew or otherwise voided that contact, since the didn't like or agree with some of the things GM was doing. Ford on the other hand uses Allison trannies built to Allison specs. The Troque-Shift is an Allison all the way and since it is built to Allison specs, it works great. I don't know who builds Dodge trannies. There are only a few companies that make certain things and Transmissions are just one of them. It's like diesel engines for the truck we are talking about. Even tho Ford owns Cummins, Cummins makes Dodge engines. Izuzu makes the Daramax for GM and Navstar/International makes the Ford diesel. Funny how the world turns sometimes.....

dwh_1987 · 04-27-2005, 11:37 AM

Thanks, I'm glad to know that. Do you have any idea who's going to be doing the GM heavy trannies going forward? That really sounds like GM is going to lose some credibility.

Greg Manning · 04-27-2005, 12:20 PM

They won't warranty the "Allison" tranny in the Chavy's if you change the stock tires....and they come with real punny 245/75's....so there is a kink somewhere. Those trucks beg for at least a 265/75 and preferably a 285/75. I like the motor though...seems real powerful in buddies who have the Chevy Duramax. The contract with Dodge runs out sometime in the next few years in the up to one ton class trucks....you can get the Cummins in the F-450+ trucks.

bmoody · 04-27-2005, 06:16 PM

RE: The Ranger F-150 remark I made
When you think about they shouldn't be rated all that differently -- but that is just what frustrates me, that my F-150 has the same tranny as the ranger. The frame and brakes are larger, and even the engine (4.2 vs. 4.6 as I recall). It bugs me that stock light truck manual transmissions are so weak, when OTR trucks obviously haul large loads and use manual trannys too. Apples and oranges I know, but it bugs me.

SeaJay · 04-27-2005, 06:40 PM

" don't think towing a boat over about 60 MPH is a good idea in any event."

I agree. However many of the posters on this board do not. Those posters generally recommend getting a big enough and powerful enough tow vechicle so that they "do not even know there is a boat back there". To translate that is code for being able to drive 75-80 while towing a heavy boat.

tightwads · 04-28-2005, 09:57 PM

Quote:

dwh_1987 - 4/27/2005 11:08 AM
Honestly, I don't think towing a boat over about 60 MPH is a good idea in any event.

SeaJay, you beat me to it!! I think this part of dwh's post is the single most important thing said in this thread.

Safety is much more easily achieved by slow careful driving than it is by "overengineering" the tow vehicle.

Luis

twentynine · 04-28-2005, 10:30 PM

I realize this "flies in the face" of the super cautious crowd, but here goes anyway.

Towing a boat over 60 mph. Yes, I do. I can think of many places and situations where towing, 60 mph or less, verses towing at a speed that stays up with the flow of traffic, would in and of itself create a more dangerous situation.

The off hand comments made so far, concerning "not knowing a boat is back there". Well, regardless of what tow vehicle or the speed I am travelling, I stay very aware of the "boat back there". In my mind these statements are made as a blind comparisson and should be taken in that context only. I don't think for one minute that a driver can safely forget about his vehicle, whether it be a huge truck towing a huge boat or a ten speed bike.

Now to return to the original subject of this thread.

F-150 towing?

If we understand correctly you were towing a Sea Pro 18 that was a much lighter boat than your new boat. Which is a 21' center console, that is suppose to weigh 2600#.

Okay, if the 21' boat actually weighs 2600#, I see no reason why your F-150 couldn't pull it. However as I stated earlier, I bet that 21' cc, boat, motor, trailer and gear weigh in a whole lot closer to 4000# than it is to 2600#. Just for laughs, bring it down to a truck stop and have it weighed. Now, that said I can also guess that your small 18' Sea Pro probably weighed in at somewhere around 2600#.

A F-150 could still tow a 4000# boat/motor/trailer/gear package, if you had trailer brakes, V-8 engine, correct tranny, right gearing. But a plain Jane F-150 with a V-6, I would think you would need something with more power.