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Old 04-20-2005, 12:18 PM
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Default 50 hp two stroke vs. 50 hp four stroke

I have an opportunity to buy a new 2004 50 hp Johnson 2 stroke for $2000 less than a 50 HP Honda 4 stroke for my 16 foot aluminium fishing boat.
Is the sale price for the Johnson worth the loss is gas consumption? Does anyone have experience with gas comparison usage for smaller HP engines?
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Old 04-20-2005, 12:23 PM
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Default RE: 50 hp two stroke vs. 50 hp four stroke

I have a Johnson 50 on a skiff and it sips gas. Very efficient
with only 2 cylanders.

Of course I am comparing to 175 on an offshore boat, but
I dont think that mileage is that much of an issue in this HP
range. WHat really differenciates these motors is noise and
weight. DOnt think I need to mention which one is better
respectively.

JP
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Old 04-20-2005, 03:43 PM
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Default RE: 50 hp two stroke vs. 50 hp four stroke

I VERY seriously doubt that you would EVER manage to recoup $2000 in gas... unless you run the thing night and day 365 a year. Even if the two stroke burned 50% more gas (unlikely) ... if your average trip burned $5 of gas with the 4 stroke, you would only burn $7.5 in gas with the 2 stroke... that's $2.5 per trip. If you ran 3 days a week for 35 weeks a year (I really doubt you're using it this much... but just for the sake of argument)... that's $262.5 a year in additional gas cost... or to put it differently, it would take you over 7.5 years to recoup the engine cost in gas. If you took that $2000 you saved initially and socked it into some form of investment, it should have approximately doubled in 7 years.... so you're STILL $2000 out of pocket (theoretically). ok... I didn't include the cost of the oil you'll burn... but the point is that you're financially better off with the two stroke if there's a $2000 difference in price.

Given the fact that the 2 stroke is likely a bit lighter... if you can stand the increased noise, I'd say get the 2 stroke. If noise is a major factor in your decision, get the 4 stroke.

Luis


Quote:
clarkt - 4/20/2005 1:18 PM
I have an opportunity to buy a new 2004 50 hp Johnson 2 stroke for $2000 less than a 50 HP Honda 4 stroke for my 16 foot aluminium fishing boat.
Is the sale price for the Johnson worth the loss is gas consumption? Does anyone have experience with gas comparison usage for smaller HP engines?
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Old 04-20-2005, 03:46 PM
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Default Re: 50 hp two stroke vs. 50 hp four stroke

get the freaking E TEC, best of both worlds or so they claim
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Old 04-20-2005, 03:58 PM
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Default Re: 50 hp two stroke vs. 50 hp four stroke

Another consideration is, how much do you care about the environment? My next engine will be a four stroke for that reason. The reduced fuel burn, not having to add oil, etc are all bonus'. I doubt I will live long enough to see the time when we don't have to deal with oil scum on the sides of our boats, but maybe. I hear a lot of talk about reduced air emissions but is anyone checking or concerned about oil in the water?
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Old 04-20-2005, 06:21 PM
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Default Re: 50 hp two stroke vs. 50 hp four stroke

Check the price of a Tohatsu 50 TLDI. It is direct injection 2-stroke. No smoke, great mileage, very reliable.
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Old 04-20-2005, 06:23 PM
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Default Re: 50 hp two stroke vs. 50 hp four stroke

I replaced a Mercury 50HP 2 stroke with a Honda 50HP. The Honda 50HP was the same weight as the Merc. Honda's 50 is the lightest 4 stroke on the market, just over 200#'s. It probably burns half the gas that the Merc did. Now gas savings sure ain't going to make up $2000 in price difference, but that Honda is worth all of that $2000 for pleasure I've had of owning and running it. Quiet as a mouse and smoke free, something that Johnson can't compare with. I'd honestly have to say that the Honda has improved my, and my wife's boating pleasure by 300%! Mercury has stopped production on 2 stroke carb and EFI motors, everythings gonna be Optimax, or 4 stroke. Bombardier, owner of Evinrude and Johnson is betting it all on the new Etec, and I think you will see Johnson go by the wayside.
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Old 04-20-2005, 07:00 PM
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Default Re: 50 hp two stroke vs. 50 hp four stroke

One thing I dont get is the " smoke free thing ", I run pre mix 75 - 1 & oil inj. on my Merc & smoke is never an issue .
You get a puff of smoke when you start her up, then the smoke issue is behind you, literally once you knock it in gear & head out
Never in my 30 years of boating have i thought " man this 2 stroke smoke is killing me "
Dont mean to hijack the thread, just had to get this in
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Old 04-20-2005, 10:31 PM
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Default Re: 50 hp two stroke vs. 50 hp four stroke

Usually the guy driving the big honking Diesel Tractor Trailer also wonders what everyone's issue with the black soot he is belching since it is the people behind him that are breathing it. Go 4-Stroke, I replaced a 70-Stroke Mercury with a 50-Yamaha. Not only does it save fuel, I have to carry less so there is more room in the boat. At $70-$90 an hour Shop rates, the reliability of the 4-Stroke over time is also a consideration. Oil Changes, Leg Oil and Spark Plugs are all home mechanic projects. What is 2-Stoke Oil going for now, I'm sure the manufacturers brands are pricey? That too adds to your cost every tank while the 2 quarts in the 4-Stroke last 100 hours.
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Old 04-21-2005, 07:41 AM
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Default Re: 50 hp two stroke vs. 50 hp four stroke

40 trips a season with my 2 stroke 40 HP outboard makes me enviornmently unfriendly
You think diesel tractor trailers can be compared to a 2 stroke outboard, have you been bombarded with 2 stroke smoke while cruising behind one ?
Etec is a 2 stroke puts out much less then 4 strokes with no valve trains & extra weight, 4 strokes arent the best thingb since sliced bread.
The oil debate doesnt hold up, Oil cost me 10 bucks a gallon & the 4 stroke oil changes make that a wash

The problem with smaller 4 stroke outboards like the 50 HP this guys considering theyre too heavy for 13' Boston Whalers & other skiffs..
Oh well, my 2 cents
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Old 04-21-2005, 08:12 AM
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Default RE: 50 hp two stroke vs. 50 hp four stroke

I'd go two stroke even without a price bonus! Better engine, more power, more dependable, lighter, etc. It may be "politically correct" to pay "through the nose" for future mechanical problems with the four strokes but, a two stroke 50 will be bullet proof.

You have a specific choice of a Johnson in front of you but, if that goes away, look at the Nissan/Tohatsu 50hp two stroke, three cylinder!
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Old 04-21-2005, 08:14 AM
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Default Re: 50 hp two stroke vs. 50 hp four stroke

I'd go two stroke even without a price bonus! Better engine, more power, more dependable, lighter, etc. It may be "politically correct" to pay "through the nose" for future mechanical problems with the four strokes but, a two stroke 50 will be bullet proof.

You have a specific choice in front of you but, if that goes away, look at the Nissan/Tohatsu 50hp two stroke, three cylinder!

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Old 04-21-2005, 08:28 AM
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Default Re: 50 hp two stroke vs. 50 hp four stroke

"40 trips a season with my 2 stroke 40 HP outboard makes me enviornmently unfriendly"


Mulltiplied by millions of your friends, the answer is yes! The oil from a four stroke can be recycled. The oil from a two stroke either is burned and goes into the air, or is unburned and goes into the water.

I have a two stroke EFI and yes, I get bombarded with oil smoke on start up, while sitting still or while trolling downwind.

The problem is not so much with one or two two-stroke motors. The problem is that there are so many of them. Too many people on this earth is the real problem but it is politically uncorrect to discuss this.
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Old 04-21-2005, 09:25 AM
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Default Re: 50 hp two stroke vs. 50 hp four stroke

Quote:
jethro1 - 4/21/2005 9:28 AM

"40 trips a season with my 2 stroke 40 HP outboard makes me enviornmently unfriendly"


Mulltiplied by millions of your friends, the answer is yes! The oil from a four stroke can be recycled. The oil from a two stroke either is burned and goes into the air, or is unburned and goes into the water.

I have a two stroke EFI and yes, I get bombarded with oil smoke on start up, while sitting still or while trolling downwind.

The problem is not so much with one or two two-stroke motors. The problem is that there are so many of them. Too many people on this earth is the real problem but it is politically uncorrect to discuss this.
Wel..actually ALL of the oil gets burned, even the reccyled stuff. It goes to power boilers and is mixed in with the coal during start up or peak times.

And from above, yes I have been in my boat and said "man this 2 stroke smoke is killing me."

I'll never own another 2 stroke again. Gas is expensive enough. Why pay for oil too every time i crank it up?
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Old 04-21-2005, 09:47 AM
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Default Re: 50 hp two stroke vs. 50 hp four stroke

Quote:
jethro1 - 4/21/2005 8:28 AM"40 trips a season with my 2 stroke 40 HP outboard makes me enviornmently unfriendly"Mulltiplied by millions of your friends, the answer is yes! The oil from a four stroke can be recycled. The oil from a two stroke either is burned and goes into the air, or is unburned and goes into the water.I have a two stroke EFI and yes, I get bombarded with oil smoke on start up, while sitting still or while trolling downwind.The problem is not so much with one or two two-stroke motors. The problem is that there are so many of them. Too many people on this earth is the real problem but it is politically uncorrect to discuss this.

Then why is it that some of the current 2 strokes are emmitting less emmissions than your 4 stroke. There are larger emmission problems to worry about other than a few 2 stroke outboards smoking.
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Old 04-21-2005, 10:38 AM
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Default Re: 50 hp two stroke vs. 50 hp four stroke

Sure many pressure injected & E TEC 2 strokes are polluting less then those bulky 4 strokes.
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Old 04-21-2005, 10:47 AM
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Default RE: 50 hp two stroke vs. 50 hp four stroke

I have a honda 4s 50hp on an aluminum 16.5 skiff . It is the best motor I have ever owned. I have run it wot at 46mph, and trolled for hours and hours at 2mph. No smoke, no chatter, burps, stalls- NO noise. In fact, when I first got it, I used to start it while it was running, thinking it had crapped out. Its great on gas, as well. Pay the difference and enjoy your experiences on the water to the fullest.
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Old 04-21-2005, 10:50 AM
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Default Re: 50 hp two stroke vs. 50 hp four stroke

"how much do you care about the environment?"

If we want to go down that road then we should all trade in our power boats for the ones that run on sails or paddles. Many of us are burning 100 or more gallons of fuel a trip. Newer motors of course better than older ones, but they are all fuel hogs when you think about it.
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Old 04-21-2005, 10:52 AM
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Default Re: 50 hp two stroke vs. 50 hp four stroke

& another thing, those 4 strokes are so quiet, you go through expensive starter motors by cranking while there running
sorry couldnt resist
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Old 04-21-2005, 10:57 AM
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Default Re: 50 hp two stroke vs. 50 hp four stroke

Quote:
jethro1 - 4/21/2005 9:28 AM

"40 trips a season with my 2 stroke 40 HP outboard makes me enviornmently unfriendly"


Mulltiplied by millions of your friends, the answer is yes! The oil from a four stroke can be recycled. The oil from a two stroke either is burned and goes into the air, or is unburned and goes into the water.

I have a two stroke EFI and yes, I get bombarded with oil smoke on start up, while sitting still or while trolling downwind.

The problem is not so much with one or two two-stroke motors. The problem is that there are so many of them. Too many people on this earth is the real problem but it is politically uncorrect to discuss this.

You have a two stroke efi and you are lecturing others that they should be concerned about the environment?

Get a 4 Stroke or DFI yourself before telling others what they should do.
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