Scuppers at or below waterline- how serious?

[Baja Bound]

I have been trying to narrow my choices on a 18-20 foot center console with a shallow deadrise. Something I am finding all too prevelant are deck drain scuppers that are at or below the waterline. In theory, if the boat has a fair amount of slope from bow to stern on the deck and does not have much bilge area to fill with water (drawing the deck down even lower) the cockpit should still be "self draining" instead of "self filling" . How serious a safety issue do the rest of you think this problem is?

Many of the boats I have considered look to have this problem, including Parker 1801, Maycraft 1900, Lema 18, Maritime Skiff 20, C-Hawk 200. In some cases I have seen the boats sitting in the water. In other cases, I have seen pictures of used boats and you can make out the waterline on the bottom paint when the boat is on the trailer. If this is the situation sitting at rest while empty, then those scuppers have to be underwater with full bait tanks and guys at the transom. I seems that the manufacturers could easily build the hull an inch or two deeper and get those scuppers well above the waterline. What are your thoughts? Am I just being paranoid?

[Extractor]

Depends.. I had a 19.6ft aquasport and the boat was old (72) and the had twin 55hp on it. The scuppers were underwater at rest. I plugged the scuppers and installed a 750gph auto bilge on the deck wired directly to the battery. This solved the issue of water on the deck but obviously would be a problem if the pump failed. I had a hand pump just in case.

I was comfortable with this setup fishing offshore in most conditions. I was only 22 then and was a little more adventurous than I am now

[FLYRODDIN]

i have a 19 ft pathfinder and have the same issues - i just put the plugs in when out fishing, if it rains then wehave to pull the plugs out and move a bit now and then, yes it is a nuisance but i am not much of one to be out in the rain so that really isn't much of an issue for me.

[Atlantis]

With a heavy load on my 19' Triumph, I have to plug the self-draining holes because the waterline is about halfway through the scupper, and then I change the name from self-draining, to self-filling. It really isn't an issue for me, as the holes are plugged (I stole the jacuzzi/pool flow plugs that were used in a recent pool issue), and now water doesn't enter. In case I do get water in the boat, I can easily unscrew an access hatch where the water runs to. I know that in this boat, the saftey issue of having them plugged (if an issue exists) is moot, as, if I ever did take on a monster wave/wake, the weight would lower the level below the use of the self-draining scuppers anyway. I let the bilge just handle these issues.

[cgrand]

mine are well below the water line, rubber flaps
i expect they'll eventually wear out & have to be replaced, but as of now i never have a wet deck

[Bullshipper]

If you do take a wave over the bow or transom, low scuppers are much slower to drain, and having a lot of water from the 1st wave will sit you even lower, complicating matters. Then the domino second wave hits you and you are swamped, perhaps killing your electrical power, and so on.

I know this sounds dramatic, but you always try to provide for the worst scenario and two big holes where water gets into my boat is a serious drawback in my mind.

With all the dry boats around, I would look elsewhere, as even just the possibility have having to deal with wet tennis shoes, or having to wear hot rubber boots in hot weather, turns me off.

And buying a boat for the baja with a shallow deadrise is also a mistake IMO, as its hot there, and you can count on thermals to whip up steep chop every day, starting at 11:30 am sharp.

[Edward Teach]

The boats with this scupper system are operated the same way you ride a bicycle! Keep moving! If you stop, you'll either fall over or fill up with water! With bicycles you can get a tri-cycle or bolt on "training wheels". With a boat you can "hardwire" a constantly operating bilge pump or carry extra buckets....your choice.

[Baja Bound]

Good responses guys, keep em coming.
My concerns are mainly the scenario that Bullshipper laid out. If you lose power or are caught unaware and take on some water, will the added weight of that water cause the deck to not drain at all, or worse yet begin to fill. As Atlantis256X points out a large amount of water would put most any scuppers under water. One locally built boat I am considering will install large oblong scuppers that would drain water much more quickly that 1-1.5" drain holes. The other scenario is losing a hose on a bait pump or thru hull and having a significant size bilge fill with water. Yes, the bilge pump should take care of that, but a thru hull failure could overwhelm the pump or the pump could fail. I had a skiff with deck drains that were too low and needed to be plugged but as in Extractors's case I was young and didn't worry much about it. I am now older, and not neccessarily wiser, but definately more chicken!

CGrand- as I recall you have a Pacific skiff. I am surprised that an otherwise bullet proof and very safe boat with no bilge would have the drains that low.

Bullshipper-As i said you are right on with what I am concerned about. We will just have to agree to disagree on the deadrise issue. I know I am in the minority in preferring less deadrise, but it works well for me. I simply slow down and trim the bow down in a steep chop. I wouldn't go all the way to a panga with a basically flat bottom, but 12-14 degrees makes for a more stable fuel efficient boat. Most of my fishing here in San Diego involves short runs and way more time stopped than running.

[parker1801]

I have an 04 Parker 18 w/115 yamaha. With full load of fuel and loaded coolers, have never had water in the boat from the scuppers.

[Bullshipper]

I do not know where you fish, but a used Triumph 21 can be had cheap with low hours, and this is a good baja boat if you use ramps. It gets great speed and gas milage, and you can bounch the living stuff out of it on the trailer and in the water without killing your back.

The foam filled TV 19 is another favorite with a 140, but the scuppers here are also a little low IMO.

Bajarunner aluminum CC's with twin 35-50 hp are also another option although the ride is rougher.

The other is to leave a panga where you fish as they can be bought for under $500, and just take and bring back a 50 hp to get a large boat, and forgo the trailer.

[Baja Bound]

Parker1801,
Do you have a 2 or 4 stroke Yamaha 115? I just saw a nearly new 1801 with a Yamaha 4 stroke 115 at a dock. It had just a bench seat and no bait tanks or other equipment. I didn't check the stern boxes to see if he had two batteries back there, but with no one in the boat the scuppers were half way under. I was surprised to see this, as the scuppers look to be about 12" above the keel.

[Baja Bound]

Bullshipper,

I fish the San diego area inshore 95% of the time. On the Baja trips where we trailer the boat we usually go to LA Bay or Loreto. Rather than launch every day, we tend to stay on the boat at an offshore island (like LaGuardia) or some other anchorage away from the panga fleets.

Where are you in living in Baja?

I was leaning towards a Maycraft 1900 or 2000, but since the 1900 has the same scupper issues as the Parker 1801, I may end up with a Stringari. I don't know if you are familiar with Stringari, but they are built in San Diego. 18 feet with an 8' beam and very deep and heavy(you could put a Parker 18 inside one). They are a little slow due to the weight and a little wet, but great to fish out of with 25" gunwales. I owned an sterndrive version a while back. I wanted to get a little lighter boat, but they all seem to have a shallow cockpit depth and low scuppers. Most of the boats I have seen that are significantly lighter are those with full liners, like a Scout. We really do not like to fish out of a boat with no toe room and a stern seats etc.

[Old Biddie]

Take a look at the 18 or 21 Bluefin cuttyhunk. I think you would be happy with them.

[Baja Bound]

Old Biddie,
That is a good suggestion. The Bluefin Cuttyhunk 18 was on my list until they redesigned it very recently. It now has about 18 degrees of deadrise which is more than I am looking for. I do like the design and they were reasonably priced. Looks like a nice boat.

[cgrand]

Baja Bound - 4/10/2005 3:45 PM
CGrand- as I recall you have a Pacific skiff. I am surprised that an otherwise bullet proof and very safe boat with no bilge would have the drains that low.

like i said, water never backs up on to the deck, so obviously it works. as you noted theres no bilge so i don't have to worry about a pump going out. water runs right off the deck & out the drains, every time.

[jobowker]

I never gave it that much thought until I ran into some nasty standing waves on the way home in an 18 footer. I took a bit of green water over the bow and still remember the feeling of cold water rushing past my ankles. Thre was a second smaller wave that also spilled a little water over the bow. The water eventually cleared, probably within seconds, but it sure felt like a long time!

[Bullshipper]

They are putting a ramp into LA Bay so all your locations have ramps. I see Triumph 21{s with low hours for 15K, and this is 45 mph boat that gets over 4 mpg with a 150 motor, and +50 mph with a 200.
Big dry flexi hull that will take LA wind well, and make the long runs to Ensenada and the back side of the island at Loreto too.

I lived in Hermosillo and had my boat in San Carlos for over 20 years. I am now in San Luis Potosi, keeping boats at San Carlos, Barra de Navidad near Manzanillo, and Tampico.

[parker1801]

I have a four stroke, two batteries. I have never seen a Parker CC with a bench seat! I have a leaning post with cooler insert and never get water thru the scuppers. Oh well gotta get what works for you.

[Old Biddie]

Baja Bound, Take a ride in one of the new Blue Fins. It's a variable deadrise , stepped hull. They are more stable at rest than a conventional v. I have a variable deadrise "hydro-lift" hull that is the equivalent of 23 Degrees but it's VERY stable at drift.