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Old 11-27-2012, 01:50 PM
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If I understand this correctly there is no mention of Suzuki not producing cars, ATVs or outboards. This is the middleman, AMSC, filing for bankruptcy.

Even if they were to go completely under it is fair to expect another company will position itself in the U.S. to resell the Suzuki products that they can make money on. This would likely include the marine division. To retain any kind of loyalty and credibility they would have to honor warranties on those same product lines even if originally sold prior to their taking on those lines. SMC would likely back those warranties anyway, if they wanted to maintain any kind of presence in the U.S.

That'll be two cents please.
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Old 11-27-2012, 02:49 PM
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If I understand this correctly there is no mention of Suzuki not producing cars, ATVs or outboards. This is the middleman, AMSC, filing for bankruptcy.

Even if they were to go completely under it is fair to expect another company will position itself in the U.S. to resell the Suzuki products that they can make money on. This would likely include the marine division. To retain any kind of loyalty and credibility they would have to honor warranties on those same product lines even if originally sold prior to their taking on those lines. SMC would likely back those warranties anyway, if they wanted to maintain any kind of presence in the U.S.

That'll be two cents please.
Exactly.
And it could be that Suzuki Motor Company (Japan) the builder of the automobile/trucks was hoping or pushing the North American wholesaler ASMC to break their contract via reorganization.
I would not be surprised if the mother company in Japan takes over the auto/truck portion for North America and seamlessly business goes on uninterrupted for the most part.
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Old 11-27-2012, 04:28 PM
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Weren't they the King of rollovers???
Yea pretty much but good on the trails
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Old 11-27-2012, 04:38 PM
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Yea pretty much but good on the trails
Not as good as Samurais!
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Old 11-27-2012, 05:56 PM
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This isn't good news for anyone with suzuki products in the US (even if it is simply a distribution arm). One of the things that happens in these situations is that a company 'proposes' something and a judge decides, they give up control of what's going to happen in the proceedings by filing bankruptcy. That means that anything at this point is pure speculation and the real answer is no one knows. Will suzuki the parent company still make outboards, most likely, will you be able to buy them and get parts for them in the US in the short term? who knows, it'll be up to what the judge decides. Since its their exclusive NA selling arm they can't just setup another entity or sell directly, so it'll come down to what the court decides. Either way its bad for workers, debtors and owners, but I'm hopeful it'll get resolved quickly and things like warranties will continue to be honored.

And to clarify I have no specific knowledge of the situation. Everyone has opinions, but its important to realize they are simply opinions at this point, and with a little bit of patience we'll all know what's happening shortly.
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Old 11-27-2012, 07:02 PM
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Yep another sky is falling Etec owner. I could care less if all of the Etec owners want to join in....was not going to spend 5k more to repoower my boat with Etecs 6 years ago...nor would I today...carry on.

Cheers.

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This isn't good news for anyone with suzuki products in the US (even if it is simply a distribution arm). One of the things that happens in these situations is that a company 'proposes' something and a judge decides, they give up control of what's going to happen in the proceedings by filing bankruptcy. That means that anything at this point is pure speculation and the real answer is no one knows. Will suzuki the parent company still make outboards, most likely, will you be able to buy them and get parts for them in the US in the short term? who knows, it'll be up to what the judge decides. Since its their exclusive NA selling arm they can't just setup another entity or sell directly, so it'll come down to what the court decides. Either way its bad for workers, debtors and owners, but I'm hopeful it'll get resolved quickly and things like warranties will continue to be honored.

And to clarify I have no specific knowledge of the situation. Everyone has opinions, but its important to realize they are simply opinions at this point, and with a little bit of patience we'll all know what's happening shortly.
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Old 11-27-2012, 07:11 PM
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Yep another sky is falling Etec owner. I could care less if all of the Etec owners want to join in....was not going to spend 5k more to repoower my boat with Etecs 6 years ago...nor would I today...carry on.

Cheers.
What a useless comment and thank you for the personal attack. I actually also happen to own some suzuki products, so am about as thrilled about this as everyone else. I also own an evinrude and mercury outboard, though that has absolutely nothing to do with my opinion on the subject.

Why are you derailing a thread about suzuki bankruptcy and its potential effects on the outboard motors with commentary about a motor brand that no one has mentioned?
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Old 11-27-2012, 07:11 PM
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Again, people really need to read the entire filing. Suzuki will continue to produce Autos, ATV's and marine engines in Japan. Another company that is part of Suzuki America wants to buy the ATV and marine engine distribution for the US and plans to honor the auto warranties and supply parts. This is not the manufacturing of the products. Suzuki actually has good global sales in Auto and marine engines. The parent company in Japan has been loaning Suzuki America money to operate for some time. The filing says that they have been loosing auto sales since the recession. Because they make all their cars in Japan they don't have favorable exchange rates. Honda and Toyota make a good portion of their cars in the US and therefore dont suffer form the exchange rates. Also the regulations in the US dont make their cars cost effective like they are in Europe and Asia.

If the Judge decides that the new company won't get to distribute for Suzuki then im sure that Suzuki Motor Company (Japan) will form another company that will do it. They just want out of the Auto industry in the US.
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Old 11-27-2012, 07:23 PM
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Guys don't jump to conclusions. Hope for the best which would be for Suzuki to keep building outboards. It seems like there are always a few that would love to see a company that builds the "competition" to their favorite engine fail. Though the comments in this thread are nothing compared to when BRP went public with closing down the jet boat portion of their company.

Anyone that would be happy to see any of these companies go under have a little devil in their soul. If Suzuki Marine folds it will be bad news for everyone except the top brass at the other outboard companies. In other words it will only make the rich CEO's just a little richer.....

One less brand of outboard to choose from means less supply and higher demand. That can only equal higher prices for consumers.

And of course the loss of American jobs is the biggest downside.

Only the rich CEO's win if Suzuki falls.
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Old 11-28-2012, 04:43 AM
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I could be wrong, but I am pretty sure Suzuki cars were actually rebadged or made by Daewoo whom pulled the plug on the US market... Someone that has a Suzy car might know
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Old 11-28-2012, 06:41 AM
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wanna sell the boat now?
Get in line for that deal. I might want it back.
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Old 11-28-2012, 04:27 PM
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So one way one _could_ interpret the filing is (not that _I'd_ interpret it this way)...

(disclaimer... I'm not a lawyer and all I know about bankruptcy I learned from reading this filing...)

SJ (Suzuki-Japan) is the sole owner of SA (Suzuki-America) and SJ wants to dump the failing American auto line.

SJ installs a couple of high-powered bankruptcy experts on SA's Board (one of whom used to work for the FBI, presumably in forensic accounting :-), and everybody goes to work on a Chapter 11 filing.

Chapter 11 allows the Debtor (SA) to structure the bankruptcy, which SA/SJ obviously want. The Creditors (including SJ) have to agree to the terms, else it can be forced into Chapter 7, which provides for the court and a 3rd-party to structure and oversee the dismantling and sales of assets and the payment of the Creditors.

SJ sets up a new American company, NN (don't recall its name...), to buy everything but the auto sales portions of SA.

SA files Chapter 11, proposes approval sometime in 2013 (no doubt hoping for early spring).

The filing lists SA assets as ~$230M and liabilities as ~$230M (depending on how the accounting cooks - it's more like $340M in what could be considered something like debt).

In the proposed deal, NN will buy everything (and all the associated assets) but the auto sales portion for $95M, with the remainder up for grabs by the rest of the Creditors (excluding SJ).

Now things get fuzzy. From the filing it's not clear how much of the $230M in assets would remain after the NN purchase. The filing argues that SJ holds ~$150M in secured debt of SA, so if forced into Chap. 7, SJ would get paid first, and leave less for the rest of the Creditors.

In the meantime, the auto dealers have probably banded together to introduce a motion to block the filing as is.

So if we make the (maybe very) generous assumption that 1/3 the assets are assessed to the auto sales business, then after the $95M payment from NN, this leaves ~$170M to divy up among the unsecured creditors.

Another way to look at this might be that SJ is saying, in effect, "We want to get this over with. Take the $170M and we can get on with our lives, or we'll go to Chap 7, SJ will take most of the assets, and everybody loses a lot more...".

As always, the devil's in the details. Us 'zuke owners (and slavering buyers) can only hope that it's over quickly, but it'll definitely be over and SJ will have a new company to handle NA sales of ATV and Marine products. The only questions are how much of the SA assets they can retain in NN, and how quickly they can emerge from the carnage.

-ks
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Old 11-28-2012, 04:39 PM
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Get in line for that deal. I might want it back.
In that case, DIBS!

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Old 11-28-2012, 04:50 PM
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Regulator is stopping boat production. Oh I'm sorry it's Twinkie I'm thinking of.
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Old 11-28-2012, 05:04 PM
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Regulator is stopping boat production. Oh I'm sorry it's Twinkie I'm thinking of.
What a stupid post in a Suzuki thread.
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Old 11-28-2012, 05:17 PM
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What a stupid post in a Suzuki thread.
...well, if it were a more informed post, it might have referred to the fact that the "Twinkie" claim in the SA filing was the the Marine division had only 7% of the current market (I'm not saying that was stated fact; rather, that it's only my potentially flawed recollection that this was stated).

In the context of a small position of the market, a Twinkies reference might be forgiven. On the other hand, I and others would argue that Suz' outboards have been and are still at the top of the quality range ("timing chains rule"....).

As Bubble used to say in Ab-Fab,"Who can say?...".
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Old 11-28-2012, 05:59 PM
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...well, if it were a more informed post, it might have referred to the fact that the "Twinkie" claim in the SA filing was the the Marine division had only 7% of the current market (I'm not saying that was stated fact; rather, that it's only my potentially flawed recollection that this was stated).

In the context of a small position of the market, a Twinkies reference might be forgiven. On the other hand, I and others would argue that Suz' outboards have been and are still at the top of the quality range ("timing chains rule"....).

As Bubble used to say in Ab-Fab,"Who can say?...".
You, like deluxe must be drinking, or on drugs. How in your wildest imagination can you hi-jack this thread to the Twinkie situation. You have obviously lost your focus on the fact that this is a "Boating Forum." If you and deluxe want to talk about other business's, you should do so in the Dockside Chat or Bilge Forums.
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Old 11-28-2012, 07:04 PM
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WOW . I own 4 different Suzuki outboards and I could care less about the bankruptcy
This is 2012 guys get with the times, stop living like its 2004
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Old 11-28-2012, 07:49 PM
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Suspect one can get great deals on new zukes over next few years. Some risk, but not likely that zuke will abandon a profitable marine engine div.
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Old 11-28-2012, 08:10 PM
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i just bought a new tideline cat with a 175 suzuki last week i guess i could call Michael and ask him to put a different brand motor on it. But im not worried at all about the marine side of suzuki. Let the good times roll!
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