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Old 04-26-2012, 04:17 PM
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Default 225 Johnsons stall at idle

1998 225's.

Let me start by saying, this is random and only happens at dead idle. 1 engine, not the other or vice versa. They have never stalled at the same time, too random but I'm sure they would.

Starts right up cold with choke. Any amount of throttle and no stalling. Runs out 100%. No rough idling even when one starts to stall, it just kinda falls off. Hit the key and it fires right back up, no choke no fuss.

Naturally, this is on the water. On land and on the muffs, it'll idle all day long at the elevated idle of about 1300 or so.

1000rpms in a idle zone putting along, no problem.

I need to pay some more attention to the primer bulb. I'm pretty sure they don't stay hard for a long time. They look great. I'm not real sure what the rule on that is.


Give me some ideas.
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Old 05-03-2012, 06:23 PM
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no ideas on what to do here?

I ran some sea-foam through it and no change really.

It's almost like the idle is too low or it's over oiling at idle.

Thing is, it fires right back up perfectly. No rough idle, just like it didn't happen.
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Old 05-03-2012, 06:47 PM
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I had something similar on my 225 Yammy 2-stroke. It behaved almost exactly as you described. It ended up being a combination of "heat induced vapor lock" and a tired (1200 hours) fuel pressure pump.

1. First, basically, what would happen is that a cold motor would start right up and then it would idle kind of higher (similar the way car do) around 1100-1300 rpm. Then, after the motor warmed up, it the idle setting would drop down to about 500-600-ish. So, the "cold" motor pushed more fuel through the carbs and it stayed running.

2. Second, now that the motor got good-and-warm, at very low power settings (long idle or after a shutdown for hanging out and socializing) the fuel that's in the carbs or anywhere near the hot motor core would warm up and begin to kind of "vaporize" ie, not really atomize correctly while going through the carbs. This is kind of a guess as I am not a combustion engineer or carburetor expert at all. But, a bunch of fuel being cooked while sitting in the floats and lines next to a VERY WARM motor is going to have issues, I would think.

NOTE: This problem was still occurring after a very competent mechanic overhauled all my carbs so I know that wasn't the issue. They were clean, tuned and dialed in. Also, the diaphragm fuel pumps were replaced a the same time.

I solved the problem by replacing the fuel-pressure pump and stepping up the "hot idle" setting a bit.

She purrs like a kitten now

I would think that your motor is kinda sorta similar (late 90s 2 stroke) so I would think it's worth a shot.
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Old 05-03-2012, 07:10 PM
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check compression....a low cyl will do this
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Old 05-03-2012, 07:32 PM
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We have long idle zones down here, under 1k rpms but above idle. Never dies.


1 thing to note, when it starts doing this, it becomes more frequent if you don't get it out of idle. It always fires right back up at the bump of the key.

It takes about 10 min of straight idling for it to happen on a warm engine.
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Old 05-03-2012, 07:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joejoe7716 View Post
check compression....a low cyl will do this
That would be a surprise, they run strong.
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Old 05-03-2012, 07:34 PM
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Quote:
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We have long idle zones down here, under 1k rpms but above idle. Never dies.


1 thing to note, when it starts doing this, it becomes more frequent if you don't get it out of idle. It always fires right back up at the bump of the key.

It takes about 10 min of straight idling for it to happen on a warm engine.
This is almost exactly how mine was behaving.
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Old 05-03-2012, 07:36 PM
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How old and what condition are the plugs?
What RPM do they idle at in gear and in N? Can you bump up idle-stop setting 50 RPM or so without adversely affecting shifting??
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Old 05-03-2012, 07:42 PM
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Quote:
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How old and what condition are the plugs?
What RPM do they idle at in gear and in N? Can you bump up idle-stop setting 50 RPM or so without adversely affecting shifting??
Man, I have no idea. It's the strangest thing. When it's doing this, I'm docking. I kept asking myself why I'm not watching the rpms but then it occurs to me, I was doing stuff.


I'll make a note of it this weekend.


The plugs are brand new. Did it with the old plugs also.
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Old 05-03-2012, 07:43 PM
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Quote:
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This is almost exactly how mine was behaving.
where is this pump?
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Old 05-03-2012, 07:45 PM
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I have no clue on bumping the idle up a touch.

I was told to do a link and sync?

Clueless to that, also.
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Old 05-03-2012, 09:10 PM
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Checking compression is free and takes 5 min
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Old 05-03-2012, 09:22 PM
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I always see link and sync. But can't imagine how it would need this out of the blue.

Check your revs when this is happening.. OMC recommends 650rpm when warm and in gear.
On the muffs it will always idle high due to no back pressure on the exhaust.

If you want to bump up the throttle. The linkage that is at the top of the motor that controls the timing under the flywheel. It has a screw with a jam nut. Turn counter clockwise to increase idle speed. Try half a turn and go from there.
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Old 05-04-2012, 06:53 AM
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Quote:
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I always see link and sync. But can't imagine how it would need this out of the blue.

Check your revs when this is happening.. OMC recommends 650rpm when warm and in gear.
On the muffs it will always idle high due to no back pressure on the exhaust.

If you want to bump up the throttle. The linkage that is at the top of the motor that controls the timing under the flywheel. It has a screw with a jam nut. Turn counter clockwise to increase idle speed. Try half a turn and go from there.
I'm pretty green to this, can you show me a pic of it?

I got a slight oil/fuel leak on the starboard engine(this one usually stays lit). Both engines have glass fuel filters and I believe this one is leaking. I have to pull the lower cowling to get at it.
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Old 05-04-2012, 07:47 AM
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Well, not sure on the leak as the filter was not leaking. Seems to be from under the carbs.

I did notice on the SB engine, the filter was more clear fuel. Cranked it and ran it, starts right up idles about 1200 on the hose and a little smoke.

Port engine started harder but ti was tilted all the way up prior. It idled about 1800+ for awhile and smoked like crazy. The fuel in that filter was noticeably green.

That's the engine that likes to die when warm.

what's the deal with that?
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Old 05-04-2012, 09:07 AM
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wait, why in the heck would that engine have fuel/oil mixed in at the filter? That gets mixed in after, correct?
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Old 05-04-2012, 10:12 AM
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How long have you have these engines?
If new to you it sounds like it would be a good idea to check with the former owner as to whether that person disconnected the VRO sysytem and relied on premixing on one or both engines and whether that issue had been there before. And very good idea to get owner's, parts and service manuals and read up so you know your engines when you need to deal with them farther from the dock.

No offense intended, if you aren't able to adjust the idle rpm stop at the carb linkage or check plugs it may be a good high-value idea to take it to a knowledgeable mechanic and pay him to help protect your investment by checking, lubing , changing ,adjusting all that should be done for repair, optimum tune performance and preventative maintenance. And it would be worth extra bucks if he would let you watch and learn the essentials while working on your engine.
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Old 05-04-2012, 10:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TTaxi View Post
How long have you have these engines?
If new to you it sounds like it would be a good idea to check with the former owner as to whether that person disconnected the VRO sysytem and relied on premixing on one or both engines and whether that issue had been there before. And very good idea to get owner's, parts and service manuals and read up so you know your engines when you need to deal with them farther from the dock.

No offense intended, if you aren't able to adjust the idle rpm stop at the carb linkage or check plugs it may be a good high-value idea to take it to a knowledgeable mechanic and pay him to help protect your investment by checking, lubing , changing ,adjusting all that should be done for repair, optimum tune performance and preventative maintenance. And it would be worth extra bucks if he would let you watch and learn the essentials while working on your engine.
1 tank boat. Oil tanks are very much in use. VRO is indeed there and hooked up.

I've only had this boat a month, the previous owner is of no help.

No offense taken. I do all my own stunts, lol. It's not going to a mechanic, I'll have to learn it so I ask questions if I'm not certain.


Now if we could get on to why is there oil in the fuel filter on one and not the other, that would be great.
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Old 05-04-2012, 10:29 AM
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Default shore....

are those the FICHT motors? I have twin '98 175 FICHT that do the same exact thing......

Out all day, engines warm......go to back into slip....one motor just tails off and dies....but starts right back up, no problem.

I've just been living with it....interested if you find out what the solution is!

PK
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Old 05-04-2012, 10:39 AM
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no, they are Ocean Pro's carb'd.

I see where the linkage from the shifter/throttle hits the carb rod but how it works in correlation to idle is new to me. I see a couple lock nuts but they are on the cable side. 1 under the flywheel and 1 down a bit.
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