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Random Quote: My idea of a perfect "10" is a 2 and 8 beers.
Would really appreciate all ideas on boat, brand, motor, etc. Looking to buy first boat to use on Long Island Sound.
Assume 19' to 23' center hull length. Have 8 year old boy, 5 1/2 year old girl. Live west of Stamford, CT so it's too far to the ocean to make offshore fishing a main consideration in what boat to buy.
Want it for LI Sound fishing first, family water sports and cruising around second. Want to spend under $45,000, prefer under $40,000. Assume 200 hp 4 stroke. Leaning towards fishing oriented dual consoles versus CC's and WA's. Looked at most of them.
Looking for best ride, fit, and finish for the money.
There are thousands of great boats and combinations in that range. I'd start at the trading dock on this forum. Although I wouldn't want to be out with a 5 year old on a small boat for more than an hour or two, if you are planning whole day trips with a 5 year old strongly consider a WA or Cuddy Cabin. Also, often overlooked is cockpit deck depth which varies greatly from brand to brand. Get recommendations from friends in the area on who the good dealers are.
Welcome aboard!!
__________________ 1st Cav Div Air Assault Infantry RVN
Subrosa, Grady White makes a beautiful 18 and 20 ft dual console with a Yamaha hookup. You have a great GW dealer in Niantic, Boats Inc. He has a very nice reputation. You could get either of those boats in your range w/ trailer.There is also another GW dealer in Greenwich, I don't know any thing about him. His name is Catalina or something like that and sons. Boats Inc. will be at the Hartford boat show in late January. I have nothing to do with Boats Inc. I have just had a couple of friends buy and they were extremely satisfied with the sale and service they have recieved. - Cooker
I run a 232 Mako out of Darien and use the boat for fishing, family and trips to Northport. Lots of great boats out there between Mako, Hydrosport (both in Rowayton) and GW - greenwhich. I would recommend one of these three as familar brands will bring good resale when you want to step up. Good luck
I really miss Long Island Sound. When I was young, (many years ago), I would spend my summers at Port Jefferson, Seatauket, and Strongs Neck, (years 1950 to 1967). My family had a 16' Thompson with a Johnson outboard. Yes, it was a wooden boat, but we had a bunch of fun, fishing, claming and just boating. ------ Today, boating is a lot more complicated. If you are going to take kids on a boat, you will need a "full marine head", which translates into some type of a cabin. I would go with a small cabin boat like a Bayliner, Maxum or Rinker with a I/O and a Bravo 1,2 or 3 drive. The cabin gives you a place to store your gear, and if someone is sick, they can get out of the sun and rest. If you spend some extra money, you can put a camper top on these boats to keep eveyone out of the sun. "Hot Sun" can cause a lot of problems with the crew. ---- Just my opinion. -----Greg
I agree with Subrosa. I keep my boat in the five mile river also (Rowayton) but actually live in Stamford. Yes finding a slip if you have not already can be a real chore. Usually a new boat dealer will guarantee access to the slip with the deal. On brands I cannot recommend Seacraft and Mako has also had some problems (sorry Sub, no slam intended) for $40-$45K (before electronics) you might also think about a SeaPro (Cos Cob) or a Stieger (Cos Cob). The SeaPro is a second/third tier boat that has a reasonable build quality. Stieger is built on Long Island and has several styles of CC or Pilot House in you price range.....of course if you go Pilot House don't forget Parker. Almost any 23' with a deadrise of 21+ degrees will work in the Sound.......different boats have different rides and there is a big spectrum between cruisers to fishing.......you have to decide what priorities are.
Having boated on the Sound for four years now in an 850lb 18'6", 6" draft fly boat........I can tell you I would want at least a 21' and more likely a 23'. This year I am stepping up to the Hydra-Sport 24' Vector (All Seasons Marine in Rowayton) with a single Yammie 225. Twins would be faster but this was a stretch for me. As I am an avid fisherman I am also putting in $6K of electronics (including radar) but that is probably a little overkill.......my fly boat had only a VHF, $400 fishfinder and I used a handheld GPS (every boat will come with a compass). Worked fine, though fog was still a little funky.
Yes the Sound is notorious for fog and a steep 2-3 chop! Depending on wind direction (South is bad for us) the forecast 2-3's will be 3-5's and real ugly! North winds will flatten our side down to 1's. Also study the heck out of the charts........the Sound is rocky, very rocky especially around Stamford Harbor.......I lost two props the hard way pushing the limits of my "flats" boat!
For a first boat I would recommend going new but going cheap - what if you don't really like boating or more importantly what if the Admiral does not like it? A boat with a porta-potti will help. In 3-4 years you will really know how you and the family use a boat and then can step up to a bigger investment - BOAT ='s Bring Over Another Thousand! So simple and cheap.
One of the things I do is fish early (6-9:30AM) then pick-up the family at the dock (three kids 5, 2, 1) and head out to one of the Norwalk Islands for some beach time (you will need two anchors) and then maybe some Porgy fishing on the way in.....keep it light and easy and the kids will love it......they also adapt to putting on the life vest anytime they are at the dock very quickly (kids can fall off a dock just as easily as a boat).
If you are into stripers etc. then having the ability to cross the sound will be quite helpful.......lots of good fishing from Northport, to 11B to the Eaton's neck triangle and in the spring at Hempstead harbor though Stamford Harbor produces very well also.
Good luck, the NYC show is over but I think Hartford is this weekend. Norwalk has a great show in Sept (in-water).
Send me an email and I would be happy to give you some names and numbers.
HYDRA-SPORTS 23 CC OR 23 WALK AROUND ARE THE BEST VALUE FOR YOUR MONEY
23CC WITH A 225 YAMAHA 4-STROKE RUNS GREAT.
LOOK FOR A 2004 LEFTOVER TO SAVE MONEY
Hydra-Sport also has a lower priced line called the Lightning series.....the 23 WA would be well within the price range and is a very good boat for the Sound. The Vector gets the Kevlar hulls (gimick?) and a nicer finish/better hardware but the Lightnings have the same attention to detail. Would be worth a look.
Good luck.
One warning on the WA's. My buddy's first boat was the GW 23 Gulfstream....an awesome boat by any standard...but with a single engine and all that superstructure....he lost lots of gelcoat learning to dock it! Not that its hard to dock (After you have done it 40-50 times). My little skiff was very forgiving around the dock, something to think about.
Great stuff guys. I get your good points on the young 'uns and on getting used to handling the boat. I'M Hoping too that some of my old boat handling skills from on the Missississippi and crossing to the Bahamas come back quickly. Different time, different waters, different hull. BTW, Admiral not likely to be comin' aboard unless Shanghai'd on board by Subrosa (seasickness is a bit of a feature for her...................).
Let me try this one on you --> Haven't ruled out a CC with dodger, BUT was also thinking about something like an AQUASPORT 215 OSPREY SPORT DUAL CONSOLE as a compromise - fishing first but other fun for friends and family too. Bimini, full curtain package, big enclosed head, decent fishing set up, lots of room, take out sleeper seat and replace with a second helm seat. Just don't know about the ride.
A dual console's probably "finger nails on the black board" to most of you. If it was just me, I'd probably do the CC, thinking its just a total fishing boat, probably rides better out to Long Island, and would probably sell faster if I want to get out of it.
But still wonder if the Aquasport DC, Scout 222 DC, GW 205 DC, Seaswirl 2101 or 2301 DC's, Robalo DC, Polar DC, etc. might ride well enough.
But what would you ideally want for the rough chop in the Sound and how many days during the summer are you dealing with, say a 3' chop or worse? Dont' want the Admiral jumping overboard...........................
A real 3 foot chop in LI sound is going to be steep, and a tough ride for most boats under 23 feet. Realistically, any decent 21+ foor boat will be able to handle any of the conditions you would want to be out in on the sound. I have a 21 foot CC with only 14 degrees deadrise, and on the days that I cannot fish, there is virtually no one else out.
Here's the best advice no one gave me when I bought a boat 4 years ago: make sure you have someone local to service the boat/engine. Even the best made boats need a decent amount of attention, and if you cannot get reliable service, it does not matter how good your boat is. Have flexibility with brand/models; there are a number of good boats out there.
Given your location, I would recommend a Grady White (Catalano's), Hydrasports (All Seasons), or Scout (Boat Shop).
I agree with Penf. a real chop of 3 is 6' from trough to crest. Not pretty but most boats can take more of the sea than you can!
Sub. based on your comments that you have prior boating experience, you will be fine - its like riding a bike. Very sound advice on the service side from Penf. I am at All Seasons and it is very nice to make a phone call on a Monday morning and have a problem taken care of! No lost time on the water etc. Lots of dealer/marinas provide a similar level of service. The municipal marina's are a lot cheaper but are restricted to residents and typically have years long waiting lists.
Regarding days......time of day is pretty important also. In the summer through Labor day the afternoon winds and boat driven chop make for a rougher ride most days in a small boat. After Labor lots of boats start coming out of the water (as crazy as that sounds). If you go early in the morning (good for fishing bad for family) the water is usually reasonable until you get into the Fall Nor'easters.
There is an Aquasport dealer in Stamford, I have seen a number of them on the water.
Subrosa, if you want to do alot of comparison shopping in one day, go to Westbook,Ct. You have Atlantic Outboard who carries Seahunt and Hydrasport and Boatworks, who carry Mckee craft, Everglades, Pioneer, stagecraft and mako and in Old Saybrook you have performance marine, who sells contender or regulator and between the bridges you have a seapro dealer. There is also a guy in Old Saybrook who specializes in used Gradys.Coming back there is Birbarie Marine in Branford . All of these guys are on route one, easy to get to off 95. I think you will get a better buy outside of Fairfield county everything is more expensive down there. -Cooker
Great ideas and thanks. And haven't asked the basic question yet of Yam 200 HPDI, vs. Yam 200 4 stroke, vs. Evenrude 200 Etec, vs, Honda 200 4 stroke. Wonder if Yam will support its HPDI as well as its 4 stroke in coming years? I'll bring some of the responses together...............
Would be easiest to go with a well-equiped pre-owned CC since there are so many good brand pre-owned's out there. But may need to keep water sports, running around, and other comforts in mind for when the kids get sick of fishing, etc. Fishing oriented dual console with large starboard head compartment, bimini, full canvas, might do but still considering. Would put in second helm seat instead of recliner/sleeper seat. Trouble is, not many pre-owned fishing designed dual consoles out there, particularly year 2003+ when better configurations came out. Also, don't know yet what I'd be giving up if I went for a fishing oriented DC over a CC, particularly on the run to LI for fun or fishing???? Many like to stand while on the run and more CC's seem to have offshore hull design & deadrise.
Thanks also for the reminders about local service. BTW, a Fairfield County dealer carrying high end lines (fishing, cruising, & rugboats) made an honest candid comment to me that he considered all dealer's new inventory to have "ticking time bombs" in it, no matter how high end the line, since there's statistically simply going to be some tweaking to do with even the best boats.
Many thanks to:
COOKER - Great idea to get up to Westbrook. Do you have an opinion or two on who makes the best value for the money? Yes, really nice guys at Catalano in Greenwich and think they would take good care of their customers. Also, the GW Tournament 205 and 225 are great boats but I was surprised that I liked a few other dual console congigurations better and - the $$ - everything on a GW is an option - even hydraulic steering (btw - tilt steering is a second option). But GW may be the best resale value in Fairfield county. Haven't had one out to see if the ride matches the reputation and advertising.
PENFIELDREEF - great advice on being sure about local service. Also, do I understand you correctly that a 21 footer is enough boat, enough of the time, to have plenty of decent boating days during the typically summer? One I was looking at was 21 1/2 feet, 3,000 pound d/w w/o engine, 18 degree deadrise.
BIGDOG - Great stuff & background. I love that Five Mile River situation too. How hard is it to get a slip and what's the typical $ per foot? Understand Aquasport typically just a bit above a mid-range boat?? Also, liked the Hydrasports. How do you compare the two lines. While the Hydra dual console seems like a nice hull and package, the things a bit small and the cockpit's cramped for the stuff I have in mind. Re the WA, have thought might not want a cabin since no one will want to be in there while underway (would probably turn green if they did), takes up a bunch of deck space, and currently don't see the wife 'sanctioning" many nights away from her (she gets seasick). That said, I started out this whole learning curve months ago assuming I'd be getting a WA but that now seems like a long time ago. Still wide, wide open to ideas and others' experience in all this though!! Also, see a bunch of sense in those Stiegers, Parkers, or Pilot Houses, but doubt they have the water sports flexibilty and agility of the CC's and DC's? Do I read you correctly - forecased LI Sound 2-3's readily end up actually being closer to the 3-5 range? Yup - heard about the rocks. Some even say stay will an aluminum prop until I know my way around.
JTBURF - great looking boat, trailer, and truck. Like your quick idea of the Pilot House overall and may go their later but might need a DC (maybe CC) until the water sports days are past. Just don't know yet.
ERICVIKING - (may I call you Red?) - Yup - I like that Hydrasports 23 (both the CC and WA) but seem stuck on whether the large fishing oriented dual console's can give me more flexibility, etc. without getting an inferior ride, handling, or problem resale value??? Anyone have a preference for either the Hydrasports Lightening series over the Aquasport line or visa versa??
SEAWOLF - Many thanks - hopefully crews needs can be covered (literally) (see above) w/o a cabin though for the lions share of what I had in mind.
JOB - What year hull do you have on that Mako? Like that boat generally. Did you add much to make the family comfortable or were they all just happy to be out there and got used to what ever you had? Did you add a dodger, bow cushions, aft bench, ??
LI SOUND GRUNT - Yup - my cute little 5 year old won't be out long, perhaps not much the first year. Seems too that typical freeboard in the cockpit is some 25" to 28". For the lower height, might look to put another low rail there if it doesn't mess everything else up long term.
You mentioned Seaswirl. I am surprised nobody chimed in yet. There are quite a few Seaswirl Dual Console owners on this board. Nothing bad is mentioned about these boats, and there are quite a few of them out there. I personally own a 2301 Walk around.
Seaswirl is a very attractively priced mid tier boat. While the fit and finish suffer, There are two things the Seaswirl is notorious for.
1. Perfect family boat especially if the captain is afraid of losing some fishability because the boat is very family oriented. The Seaswirls are extremely fishable and yet just as family friendly with high free board and family accomodations.
2. The handling and ride of a Seaswirl is outstanding. The boats are typically pretty heavy and very at home in 2- 3 foot chop conditions.
You should check out the Seaswirl. It is the ultimate family / fishing boat on the market.
LooneyTunes
Dave
__________________
Liberals are like seagulls: all they do is squawk, eat crap, and they are protected by the government.
I bought two boats from All Seasons. Ted is an honest dealer, would buy another from him in a second. BTW they are largest HydraSports dealer outside florida. First boat was a 20' Angler dual console. Second boat is a Hydrasport 230 WA. Been taking my kids fishing since they were 2. Here are my observations for what it's worth:
Dual Console has more space in bow for sitting, lousy place to be in any kind of chop. you will be bounced around and wet.
230 WA has a decent cockpit depth and a full transom, less likely to lose any kids over side. When we go picnicing I bring some folding chairs,rafts tubes etc., room is not a problem. The cabin is nice because at some point the kids will become modest and need someplace to change from wet bathing suits.
Bolth boats provided lots of family fun. When I took the little ones fishing, just make sure they catch anything. Doesn't mater if it's a skate or a dogfish. Just as long as something is happening.
No action and they become bored and hate it forever. Some of my son's best times were when I would take him to catch bait on a friday night for me to use on a saturday with friends. to them fluke, porgies or shad were a blast. Now years later he can enjoy blues and stripers
LooneyTunes - did you see that new Seaswirl 2301 Dual Console yet? Saw it at NY boat show. Seems better fit & finish than 2101 DC but not sure. Ton of space and massive fish locker - though middle of both consoles and not as easy to get to as the big Whaler fish boxes I've seen on the Outrages (can't have everything). How long have you had a Seaswirl and what did it take after you bought it to get it all settled down? Connections, pumps, electric, fittings, latches, ? Also, how did you engine it?
JWB - great point about kids eventually getting "modest" about changing etc. Yup, met Ted. Great guy and was very helpful. Still keeping that in mind but if I go dual console the Hydra DC looked a bit small - though it had some other good specs. Like that Five Mile River. Do you have a slip there? How much $/foot generally?
LooneyTunes - did you see that new Seaswirl 2301 Dual Console yet? Saw it at NY boat show. Seems better fit & finish than 2101 DC but not sure. Ton of space and massive fish locker - though middle of both consoles and not as easy to get to as the big Whaler fish boxes I've seen on the Outrages (can't have everything). How long have you had a Seaswirl and what did it take after you bought it to get it all settled down? Connections, pumps, electric, fittings, latches, ? Also, how did you engine it?
Unfortunately, I didn't specifically look at the 2301 Dual console, but one thing about Seaswirl is that each model (dual console, center console, walk around) have nearly identical finish. With that assumption, Seaswirl did quite a bit (still not enough but) with the fit and finish for the 50th anniversary. So fit and finish still is just OK but very very functional and rugged. Nothing breaks on these boats.
My Seaswirl (model year 2003) is now 1 year old. I bought it in 2004 as a leftover. The boat is impeccably kept by me. I maintain both engine and boat. I have put well over 150 hours on the boat with a lot of that time being off shore. the boat shows as new! The boat is complete from the factory regarding connections, pumps, electric, fittings, latches, from day one these have existed and have given me no problems. (I have only had one set of screws loosen on me, and those were the ones that go on the live well.). This boat has endured countless hours of 3 - 4 foot seas. I have NO CRACKS IN THE FIBERGLASS ANYWHERE !!
The engine is the Volvo Penta 5.0 GXi (270hp) with Volvo Penta Duo Prop outdrive. Fairly quiet ride, very fast and super efficient on gas (WOT 45mph getting 2.2mpg and cruise is 27mph getting 3.3 mpg). Seaswirls are heavy boats (almost weigh the same as comparable Gradys and Robalos) which contribute to their stability. I fish off shore with all the top tier boats and the rides are about the same. This is what makes the Seaswirl so great. It's super family friendly and when used for fishing it is as rugged and stable as any boat in it's size class.
Don't take my word for it. Get the dealer to give you a test drive on a very snotty day. You will see what I am talking about. BTW, a bonus of the Volvo Duoprop is the boat is extremely agile and your props will NEVER break from the water no matter what you try. I tried to go from dead stop to 180 degree turn at full throttle and the props still wouldn't brake with the water AND did a turning radius of about 15 feet!! You really owe it to yourself to test drive it.
Sub, do check out the 23' Stieger...hull has been around a long time and is quite proven in our waters. Ted is the man....All Seasons recently won a customer satisfaction award but there are lots of other good dealers also. Like I said, the Five Mile River is tough to get into as new construction is wiping out older dock space....Ted will make a slip part of the deal on a new boat. Costs are pretty much the same all over though some of the Norwalk Harbor slips might be lower. Five Mile river has zero crime and a nice little grocery/cafe for supplies and post trip meals. Norwalk is probably a little more iffy on keeping electronics on the boat etc.
IMHO the Dual Console is a not a good alternative - you will get wet and a wet child is not a happy child! On our boat the Admiral holds the two smaller ones on the cooler seat in front of the center console and the 5 year old stands between my legs. Once I got him to quit playing with the trottle everything worked out great. In the DC not only will the family get pounded up front but they will be taking spray - not good.
I would get a 4-stroke, in 3-4 years most engines will be 4 strokes so my theory is that it should help on resale. While I own a Harley.....I prefer my outboards to be quiet and smooth instead of loud and proud.
Aquasport and Hydra-Sport are both owned by Genmar now.......based on the boats I have looked at the Lightning Series and the Aquasport are pretty close.
I looked real hard for a used boat before I pulled the trigger on the new Hydra but all of the ones I zeroed in on had "issues"....leaky gas tanks was a big one, cracks another, a very frustrating search.
First Boat - Long Island Sound
1st Cav Div Air Assault Infantry RVN
