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I need help with an engine comparison on '04 wellcraft coastal 270. Anyone own this boat with twin 200 yamaha HPDI? I have a good deal on an '04 leftover but I had my mind set on the 4 strokes. My concern is the 200 hpdi maybe underpower for the boat. I have a family of five and will often be on the water with 6+ people in the boat.
Bignick, I own a 2002 270 Coastal with T/200 HPDI's. I went with the HPDI's for a couple reasons. The cost of the F225's were about $6,000 more (total) and the performance bulletins indicated that the F225 was only slightly faster at top end and about equal in acceleration and economy. My boat is fully loaded with all options and is stuffed with more cr@p than you can imagine. It cruises at 30 mph and has a top end of about 43-45 mph fully fueled. Occasionally I'll run 40 miles offshore with full fuel, water, 200lbs of ice along with 3 buddies with full dive gear and 16 scuba tanks. Only then would I say the performance is slightly sluggish. Otherwise for everything else I've been satisfied with the performance. The motors have 375 hrs and have been flawless. Adding 2 stroke oil is a pain in the rear and is my biggest complaint, however on the other hand changing oil might be just as bad. I don't know since I've never owned a four stroke. If you go with the 200's, make sure that you run the Saltwater Series 17" pitch props. The dealer originally installed 19" props and the motors would only top out at 5000 rpm. With the 17" props, I'm running about 5300 rpm wot with a full load. Low to midrange performace is much better.
Thank you for your input, do you also have a genset on your boat ? adding oil is tough ? is it the location on the back transom? If you had the choice today, would you buy the HPDI's again or the 4 strokes ? How does your boat handle planing? in 3~5 foot waves ?
Any performance data you have found on this boat on the web ?
Thank you for your input, do you also have a genset on your boat ? adding oil is tough ? is it the location on the back transom? If you had the choice today, would you buy the HPDI's again or the 4 strokes ? How does your boat handle planing? in 3~5 foot waves ?
Any performance data you have found on this boat on the web ?
Thanks
If you have a choice betwwen 2 and 4 stroke - do a search here - your best bet both for ease of operation and RESALE is a 4 stroke...period...not to mention the overall relaibility of the Yam 4 stokes over the HPDI's - I just moved from 2 stokes and although I liked them, - I will never go back due to the noise, smell and oil yopu need to take on long trips. Put your wife on both boats - a 2 stroke and a 4..she'll pick the 4 stroke every time...and did I mention resale? This will get me flamed bad but 2 strokes are hard to sell compared to 4 stroke boats - and it will only get worse in the future...
Your right Gersly, you don't know what you are talking about.
I have owned BOTh 2 stroke 200HPDI's and F225's. I will take the HPDI's any day. They simply have alot more power at the lower RPM's. I am pushing a 26' Mako cuddy (1990), and I am fairly sure that it weighs more than a 27' Wellcraft. The F225 needs to turn higher RPM's for cruise speed, negating any effieciency advantage. The HPDI's get better mpg than the F225's. Oil offsets this, but it still works good on the boat range issue. As far as 2 stroke oil, I burn about a gallon every 60-70 gallons of fuel. I have the five gallon oil tanks (make sure you get those), so I have to fill up with oil very infrequently.
Do not confuse the reliability issues with the 250 and 300 HPDI's with the 200 HPDI's. I have owned two sets of 200 HPDI's, and put on HUNDREDS of hours, and have yet to have a single issue.
2-strokes will definately be harder to sell down the road. I couldn't even tell you the last time we got a call for an OptiMax repower, only Verados and a carb motor here and there. You will find that the performance between the two will be in decimals. However, the 4-strokes lack of noise, not having to burn oil, and higher resale I think would be the ticket. Also, with a pair of F225s, the 270 Coastal can spin 19p wheels to 6k with a moderate load.
Sundance thanks for the input. It seems reselling any product is relative. I am not in the marine industry however in 1999~2000 people were probably looking to repower with the optimax's. In 2009 there most certainly will probably be the next big thing with engines. resale is important to me however since the f225's cost more you should receive more on resale if you are comparing apples to apples. From the responses I am hearing basically the 200 hPDI's should push this boat no problem. I hear there is barely any smoke coming from the HPDI's. This should not be an issue from what I have been told. I have riden carb engines and 4 strkes but I have never riden HPDI's. Any input would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.
In 2009 there most certainly will probably be the next big thing with engines.
that's true - but it won't be 2 strokes....and don't kid yourself - ther is no comparison odor wise between a 2 and 4 stroke - 2 strokes - even HPDI's - will gag you downwind...
Thank you for your input, do you also have a genset on your boat ? adding oil is tough ? is it the location on the back transom? If you had the choice today, would you buy the HPDI's again or the 4 strokes ? How does your boat handle planing? in 3~5 foot waves ?
Any performance data you have found on this boat on the web ?
Thanks
bignick, I do have the genset....I can't imagine this boat without it since we also use this boat to cruise, overnight and raft up. The oil fill is located on the transom and it isn't really tough to fill, it just gets old since most of our offshore trips consume between 1-1/2 to 2 gallons of oil. As far as what I would choose today? My answer is I wouldn't pay an extra 4 - 6K for the 4 strokes. 3K maybe, but not 4K. As far as running in 3-5 foot seas with a steep profile, you won't be able to make more than about 15 knots comfortably. These motors are quiet at idle and smoke very little. It's really not an issue for me.
The Yamaha Performance bulletin you'll want to search for is YPB#0136-ASP-A. Test date was 7-24-01 and it is for the Aquasport 275 Explorer, which is the same hull as the 270 Coastal. Send me a pm with your fax no. if you can't find it.
RMP Thanks for the reply. I found the bulletin you spoke of on yamahas site. Good info, I looked at some 4 strokes of comparable weight just to see the DB response. Although its tough to compare apples to apples this way due to transom, size etc. the 2 strokes were at 92 db, the four strokes at best was 87 db. 5 db difference ??? not a big differnce at this level.
Thanks again, the boat I am looking at does not have a genset, but I will have to get one if I want to run A/c and stove at sea.
bignick1 - 1/13/2005 6:55 PM
Although its tough to compare apples to apples this way due to transom, size etc. the 2 strokes were at 92 db, the four strokes at best was 87 db. 5 db difference ??? not a big differnce at this level.
Decibel measurement needs to be understood. The difference between 87 and 92 decibels is incredible vs "not a big a difference". Decibel measurement is not linear. http://www.lhh.org/noise/decibel.htm
According to the National Institute for Occupational Safety and Health (1998), the maximum exposure time at 85 dBA is 8 hours. At 110 dBA, the maximum exposure time is one minute and 29 seconds. If you must be exposed to noise, it is recommended that you limit the exposure time and/or wear hearing protection.
In 2009 there most certainly will probably be the next big thing with engines.
that's true - but it won't be 2 strokes....and don't kid yourself - ther is no comparison odor wise between a 2 and 4 stroke - 2 strokes - even HPDI's - will gag you downwind...
That is horseshiat -. I have owned 2 strokes, HPDI 2 strokes, and 4 strokes. Their is no perceptable difference smoke wise between an HPDI and a four stroke. I spearfish ALO, and am always climbing on the back of a boat with a running motor. A conventional two stroke will knock you out, but I frankly do not notice any difference between the HPDI exhaust and the 4 stroke exhaust. Neither one is very pleasant.
In 2009 there most certainly will probably be the next big thing with engines.
that's true - but it won't be 2 strokes....and don't kid yourself - ther is no comparison odor wise between a 2 and 4 stroke - 2 strokes - even HPDI's - will gag you downwind...
That is horseshiat -. I have owned 2 strokes, HPDI 2 strokes, and 4 strokes. Their is no perceptable difference smoke wise between an HPDI and a four stroke. I spearfish ALO, and am always climbing on the back of a boat with a running motor. A conventional two stroke will knock you out, but I frankly do not notice any difference between the HPDI exhaust and the 4 stroke exhaust. Neither one is very pleasant.
I repectfully disagree - I have no axe to grind here - I hope you like your hpdi's - But I have had guests with both my sets of Opti's and a friends HPDI's comment on the smell at certain times when the winds turn - but if you have had no such experience then that's great for you....
gersly- i have well over 600 hrs on a pr. of hpdi 200 's & smoke is not an issue.i will admitt to one thing though .if buying new engines i would get the new e-tec from evinrude...it is the most impressive engine i have run.it gets better gas milage than a four stroke,has lower emissions than a 4 stroke,no smoke,lighter wieght,awesome performance.in a recent test a 225 e-tec outran a 250 verado on the same boat & got better gas milage to boot.
gersly- i have well over 600 hrs on a pr. of hpdi 200 's & smoke is not an issue.i will admitt to one thing though .if buying new engines i would get the new e-tec from evinrude...it is the most impressive engine i have run.it gets better gas milage than a four stroke,has lower emissions than a 4 stroke,no smoke,lighter wieght,awesome performance.in a recent test a 225 e-tec outran a 250 verado on the same boat & got better gas milage to boot.
Angler - there are thre engines in my opin that are worth buying - the e-tec, the zuke and the Verado - they are all dfferent...
1. the e-tec - 2 stroke technology near perfected
2. The Zuke - 4 stroke technology completely refined
3. The Verado - a total system that incorporates cutting edge tech
For me it's not about the gph, who can out run who, or even the money - The BMW 7 or MB 600 series does not necessarly get the best mpg, but what an experience. The Verado is like that for me - it's the total package...By the way have you tried Verado auto - sync? - the thing I like the best....
John, having had both Yammy HPDI and now a f225 all I can say is I sure don't miss putting the in bloody oil. Sure the initial economics lean in favour of a hpdi but let's face it, - after the first 50 -100 gallons of oil you begin wondering what the hell you were thinking. I say: "Buy the F225's, enjoy the boat and stop kidding yourself".
I need help with an engine comparison on '04 wellcraft coastal 270. Anyone own this boat with twin 200 yamaha HPDI? I have a good deal on an '04 leftover but I had my mind set on the 4 strokes. My concern is the 200 hpdi maybe underpower for the boat. I have a family of five and will often be on the water with 6+ people in the boat.
Thank you for your input.
Thanks everyone for your input. decided to go with the four strokes.
I believe that if ETEC proves to match its billing, that it will be the dominant motor for outboards in the coming years. It just seems to have many things going for it...
simplicity....relative to HPDI, turbocharged, valves springs and many moving parts
the raw power advantages of 2s
and weight..relative to the other big motors
already surpasses CARB 3 ratings
stingy on oil and can utilize the more environmentally friendly oil
and according to one boat manf, cheaper for him than all the rest at present. I'm sure that's subject to change. And if it does pan out, I wonder how hard it's gonna be getting out from under 4s heavier motors? The jury is still out imo.
wellcraft coastal 270 twin 200 HPDI vs twin 225 4 stroke yamaha? 
That was running at WOT which would not be the norm. Thanks for the chart.
