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Old 07-10-2011, 07:50 PM
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Default ANSWERED - Does epoxy resin stick to polyester resin? or vice versa

I have some work started on my boat, using polyester resin and fiberglass. I noticed that the wood that is just encapsulated with polyester resin , the resin is starting to flake off, and now I am wondering if expoy resin would stick to the polyester resin.

Epoxy resin seems to be so much better so...

if it does, what special prep do I need to do to the pieces that would be getting the expoy resin?

Recommendations on brand of epoxy too would be helpful.
Chris

Last edited by cfauvel; 08-28-2012 at 09:46 PM.
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Old 07-10-2011, 09:27 PM
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epoxy resin sticks to polyester but polyester will not stick to epoxy.
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Old 07-10-2011, 09:27 PM
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west is best but $
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Old 07-10-2011, 10:10 PM
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west is best but $

west systems is far from the best....
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Old 07-11-2011, 03:29 AM
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Default West$?$?$> USCOMPOSITES.com is way cheaper, deliver to your door

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west is best but $
I have never seen it blush. I probably used 50 gal of Uscomposites epoxy in the past year. West blush,s all the time. I actually use vinylester resin{even cheaper then epoxy} with great confidence. I have almost No confidence in polyester resin concerning wood especially.
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Old 07-11-2011, 06:30 AM
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I've found that Evercoat Lite Weight polyester filler has great adhesion to sanded epoxy surfaces. You have to chip it off with a chisel or sand it down smooth.
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Old 07-11-2011, 06:58 AM
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adtech has a good epoxy resin, with a lower cost than west
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Old 07-11-2011, 07:15 AM
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West will blush and kick quickly in hot weather even when using slow hardener...in cooler temps, its OK.....I like System 3/Silvertip laminating resin or Mas Epoxy...both are thin, penetrate and wet out well, and won't blush......sand your pieces with 80 grit, wipe off with alcohol and then start laminating....when using wood, always do a pre-coat and let the resin soak in, then wet out again before laying on your glass......this keeps the wood from sucking up resin from your glass, leaving you with a resin starved laminate.
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Old 07-12-2011, 07:44 PM
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Default Thanks for the replies

I forgot I had this thread started and started a new one with pictures, nearly the same title.

I am doing a test with epoxy on a piece of wood I encapsulated several years ago and left out in the elements. The Poly was cracking, and chipping off...we'll how the piece does when dry. My hardener pump took a dump so I mixed it as guesstimates, not a good idea I find...over 24 hours and stick tacky...I hope it eventually hardens.

I used MAS as that was what I had.

Would the hardener pump for WEST SYSTEM work for me, figuring that the MAS is 2:1 ratio?
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Old 07-12-2011, 08:32 PM
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you cant leave epoxy exposed to UV....it will deteriorate, yellow and peel....it must be covered in paint or something else.

the pumps for West System wont work for Mas....WS is 5:1 vs Mas 2:1
Just use a plastic graduated cup from the paint section in the hardware store....all kinds of easy to read measurements.....
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Old 07-13-2011, 02:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cfauvel View Post
I have some work started on my boat, using polyester resin and fiberglass. I noticed that the wood that is just encapsulated with polyester resin , the resin is starting to flake off, and now I am wondering if expoy resin would stick to the polyester resin.

Epoxy resin seems to be so much better so...

if it does, what special prep do I need to do to the pieces that would be getting the expoy resin?

Recommendations on brand of epoxy too would be helpful.
Chris
Throw the wood away and start from new.
Putting epoxy over peeling poly won't fix anything.
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Old 07-13-2011, 03:21 AM
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From my experience, Poly does'nt stick well to poly, forget about sticking to the other resins,except when laying wet on wet. Epoxy is the way to go. I've used US Composites and John Greer epoxy. the US Comp. is a little thicker and have had no problems with it. The Greer stuff is thinner and if you buy 5 gal or more its a little less then $50 a gallon , where as the US Comp is a little more then $50. Either way I would go with Epoxy...

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Old 07-13-2011, 03:51 AM
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Default USComposite comes in different viscosities and 1/2,1/3 and 1/4 ratios

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From my experience, Poly does'nt stick well to poly, forget about sticking to the other resins,except when laying wet on wet. Epoxy is the way to go. I've used US Composites and John Greer epoxy. the US Comp. is a little thicker and have had no problems with it. The Greer stuff is thinner and if you buy 5 gal or more its a little less then $50 a gallon , where as the US Comp is a little more then $50. Either way I would go with Epoxy...

Joe D
And west or MAS is probably $100.00 a gallon for the resin and hardner, or twice the amount.
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Old 07-13-2011, 10:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cfauvel View Post
I have some work started on my boat, using polyester resin and fiberglass. I noticed that the wood that is just encapsulated with polyester resin , the resin is starting to flake off, and now I am wondering if expoy resin would stick to the polyester resin.

Epoxy resin seems to be so much better so...

if it does, what special prep do I need to do to the pieces that would be getting the expoy resin?

Recommendations on brand of epoxy too would be helpful.
Chris
Check out the West Marine website. They have some great videos about fiberglass, resin, etal.
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Old 07-13-2011, 12:40 PM
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I agree with everything Maxie said. I have had great luck with MAS especially when you need a very clear, smooth finish over wood. I built a boat with West in the past and don't think it compares with MAS or System 3. Another option: I have other boat building friends who have had good luck with Raka epoxy and it is less expensive. They are located in Ft. Pierce, Florida. Call Larry there and ask his advice. 772.489.4070
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Old 07-13-2011, 02:06 PM
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It makes no difference if you use the epoxy that the space shuttle uses, the polyester on the wood is checking and peeling off.

Remove and start from new.
Or grind the old wood down to original.
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http://stores.ebay.com/SEARAYMAN13/E...=p4634.c0.m322
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Old 07-13-2011, 02:17 PM
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I just did a large keel repair with MAS epoxy. Nice stuff. I like the 2/1 mix ratio as you can easily measure without a pump. I don't like relying on the the 5/1 west system as it can go bad or you can accidentally short stroke it. (the pump). I needed lotsa laminations so used the fast hardener. If you mix it and put in an old frying pan it stays cooler and extends pot life yet still sets quickly in place. It adheres well to polyester resin but like JonesG said that bond won't do you any good if the polyester is falling off.
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Old 07-24-2011, 10:07 AM
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Default There is a difference...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bly View Post
I have never seen it blush. I probably used 50 gal of Uscomposites epoxy in the past year. West blush,s all the time. I actually use vinylester resin{even cheaper then epoxy} with great confidence. I have almost No confidence in polyester resin concerning wood especially.
between vinylester resin and ployester resin? I'm ignorant on the subject, hence the question.

Where do you get vinylester resin? Does vinylester resin stick to polyester resin? Does vinylester resin stick to epoxy resin.

The part I needed fixed, I re-sanded down to raw wood and re-did with MAS epoxy...The delamintated fiberglass/gelcoated piece will be glued on with either my own mix of epoxy resin/cabo-sil trowelled on with 1/16" edge or store bought Six10.

Still would like to know the various "stickiness" between all the resins out there.
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Old 07-24-2011, 10:13 AM
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Default sorry but...

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Throw the wood away and start from new.
Putting epoxy over peeling poly won't fix anything.
throwing the wood away was not an option, but I did resand down to bare wood, cuz the polyresin was just flaking off too easily...re coated the bare wood with MAS Epoxy resin I had on hand.

Now do I finish what I started with Epoxy resin, or finish using Polyester or vinylester...?
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Old 07-24-2011, 10:20 AM
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Default Raka

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I agree with everything Maxie said. I have had great luck with MAS especially when you need a very clear, smooth finish over wood. I built a boat with West in the past and don't think it compares with MAS or System 3. Another option: I have other boat building friends who have had good luck with Raka epoxy and it is less expensive. They are located in Ft. Pierce, Florida. Call Larry there and ask his advice. 772.489.4070
I too have been reading good things about Raka....what about http://www.aeromarineproducts.com ? the price is reall good.
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