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Old 12-20-2004, 12:45 PM
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Default Disavantages of Cold Molded boats

I'm looking at a 25' CC fiberglass over juniper cold molded boat. What are the disavantages of a Cold Molded boat? I would think the wood would rot over time. Is rot a concern as many of the finest yatches are cold molded - Davis, Jarrett, etc.

The boat would be used in the north east. Do you have to worry about the different expansion properties of the wood and fiberglass materials causing delamination? Is freezing water in the bildge a problem?

I don't see alot of older cold molded boats advertised for sale. Is there a reason (maybe I'm looking at the wrong web sites...)? Can you expect to get 25+ years out of a cold molded hull like you can with a solid fiberglass hull?
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Old 12-20-2004, 12:57 PM
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Default RE: Disavantages of Cold Molded boats

Rover,
If the hull is indeed glass over juniper, it technically is not a cold molded boat, but strip planked instead. That does not make it any better or worse except if it ever does get water in the wood, juniper is more rot resistant than cold molded plywood. The reason you don't see that many boats made either way is that it is very time consuming and expensive way to build the boats. They are almost all one off custom boats. Either method, either strip planked or cold molded makes a great boat when done right, or a nightmare when done wrong. Also, you have to be careful about where you drill holes and how you seal them, and where you let water stand in the bilge. These boats are not for everyone, personally, I like them and am having my second one built now.
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Old 12-20-2004, 01:00 PM
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Default RE: Disavantages of Cold Molded boats

Depends what your looking at here. Is this a boat that was built and then years down the road someone decided to glass the outside?
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Old 12-20-2004, 02:54 PM
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Default RE: Disavantages of Cold Molded boats

Cold molding involves no fiberglass. More on that in a second. I have owned many wooden boats & one of the first lessions that I learned is that water will get in there some way, somehow. Fiberglass over wood is one of the worst situations for rot. The water can/will get behind the glass & it won't leave. I personally would never own a boat with that type of construction.

Cold molding, is the process of completely encapsulating all wood components in a epoxy/resin type treatment, then joining all of the parts with the same epoxy, forming a one piece structure of wood & resin. It can be done with many types of wood, including plywood. And not to argue with Carolina Custom, I understand strip planking to be the most common form of cold molding. Usually, 3/8 to 1/2 x 3 inch strips of wood are bent over & epoxied to a lightly constructed frame, with the option of second set of diagonal planks, all sealed togehter with epoxy, to create a rot resistant, one piece structure.
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Old 12-20-2004, 03:15 PM
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Default RE: Disavantages of Cold Molded boats

My bad, the boat is not built by Carolina Custom. Peter Gamble of Hilton Head SC had it built. I believe he was involved (possibly the owner) with Hilton Head Boatworks. The boker said it is "fiberglass over Juniper", I assume that ment cold molded but I've been corrected.

Here is a link to the boat:

http://www.fredmixyachts.com/core/li...l&photo=1&url=

What do you think, would this be a maintenance nightmare? Would rot likely become an issue over the next decade or two?
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Old 12-20-2004, 03:35 PM
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Default RE: Disavantages of Cold Molded boats

My bad too.
After reading about some different ways cold mold/strip plank, some designs call for a thin coating of glass over the finished product. Either way, the wood sould be completely saturated with epoxy, slowing the rot process.

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Old 12-20-2004, 03:43 PM
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Default RE: Disavantages of Cold Molded boats

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Old 12-20-2004, 04:27 PM
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Default RE: Disavantages of Cold Molded boats

cape-rover,

If you have to ask don't do it. This boat isn't for owners who don't know about wood boats and how to maintain them. It can be expensive to learn. Do all fiberglass and enjoy.
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Old 12-20-2004, 04:36 PM
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Default RE: Disavantages of Cold Molded boats

Davis's are fiberglass, not cold molded or framed.*
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Old 12-20-2004, 06:36 PM
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Default RE: Disavantages of Cold Molded boats

The photo shows large upright 'frames' inside the gunnel. Boats built using frames are usually called strip/plank-meaning thin strips or planks of wood or ply are fastened to those frames. The building process usually starts with a keel and proceeds with the hull upright. Cold molding usually involves beginning with the hull upside down and pieces of ply or coring are 'molded' over a 'jig' or pattern. A framed boat will be heavier and have a bit less interior space because of the frames themselves whereas a cold molded boat when finished will no longer have the jig pieces (stations) as they serve only to give a pattern and the strength is from the hull itself and a few bulkheads/transom. There are pros/cons to both and builders have there own preference. This is my simple-minded understanding but i think its pretty true. Both are usually covered in epoxy/glass and you need to keep good paint on (sun deteriorates epoxy) and as mentioned seal all penetrations--once water finds wood/ply/core problems start. tom
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Old 12-20-2004, 07:08 PM
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Default RE: Disavantages of Cold Molded boats

Good explaination tabascoT.
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Old 12-20-2004, 07:56 PM
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Default RE: Disavantages of Cold Molded boats

Does anyone know of a good site that defines framed and cold molded? Is seems like there are a number of definitions of cold molded when doing a google search.

B&D state that they are cold molded and they use wood.

http://www.banddboatworks.com/new_page_3.htm

"B&D will build only 7 new boats annually an equal mix of the 60' and 68', so Don assisted in designing a very light weight, high strength modern hull form using cold molded epoxy/wood construction. "

Who makes a great all fiberglass CC 23-25' boat with the huge carolina flare? I mean a B&D type flare, I don't consider the carolina classic to have a B&D flare eventhough they are great boats.
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Old 12-20-2004, 08:17 PM
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Default RE: Disavantages of Cold Molded boats

Rover,
To clarify a few things, cold molded normally refers toa boat built with plywood on a jig that is later removed from the boat. In a modern cold molded boat, all wood is encapsulated in epoxy inside and out and then fiberglassed over. Some of the original Buddy Davis Boats were built cold molded before he went to all
glass boats. A strip plank boat, normally stripped with juniper in the Carolinas, has sawn frames which are left in the boat, everything is still epoxy coated and
fiberglassed over. Some strip plank builders now add a layer of plywood to the outside of the hull before glassing to make the boat eaiser to fair. There was a thread on here a while back about Carolina builders and their respective methods of building, do a search and you should find it. Some builders have done both types of construction, Jarrett Bay started strip planking and then switched to cold molding. In the end, in a modern version of each, the wood, no matter which method is really just a core material, everything is epoxied and glassed by most builders.

I am not aware of any builder doing a true Carolina style fiberglass boat as small as 22-23 feet. It requires a 2 pc mold and is much more time consuming to produce than the typical cookie cutter shaped production boat. The B&D 28 and Calybre 25 and 27 are the smallest Carolina style boats that are being produced in glass that I know of.

As my screen name implies, I love a Carolina style boat. I am having my second one built now. To me, the advantages outweigh the disadvantages.

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Old 12-20-2004, 08:42 PM
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Default RE: Disavantages of Cold Molded boats

Let the mind wonder:











I don't want to eat up too much bandwidth here but I've got hundreds of these pictures.* I might try to find some of the ones of the plywood really being bent around the flare.* Its quite a process.* By the way, 2 things.* One is that there is a single ply of glass and epoxy inbetween every single layer of*plyywood that goes into the building of these boats as well as on the outside.* The other thing is that I was standing right beside Buddy Davis this past spring while a crane*turned the hull over on an in-progress 67-foot boat, every bit of it cold molded plywood.* That is a sight that will draw a crowd every time.* I didn't have a camera with me either.



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Old 12-20-2004, 10:15 PM
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Default RE: Disavantages of Cold Molded boats

QUOTE: One is that there is a single ply of glass and epoxy inbetween every single layer of plyywood that goes into the building of these boats as well as on the outside.

That's not the norm, while it may be true in this one boat. The glass is just used on the inside and outside, to do it the other way would just add weight and that is one of the benifits to cold molding is "Light waight" and strong. The wood has more strength per pound than glass. The glass is added for abrashion resistance.

There can also be a combnation in a build. Strip plank first and then go to cold molding on top of it.

Here's a 22ft cold molded hull.
http://www.imagestation.com/album/?id=4291051329
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Old 12-20-2004, 10:56 PM
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Default RE: Disavantages of Cold Molded boats

Quote:
Thom - 12/20/2004 8:42 PM

The other thing is that I was standing right beside Buddy Davis this past spring while a crane*turned the hull over on an in-progress 67-foot boat, every bit of it cold molded plywood.



Thom
I didn't say anything about B&D Boatworks, I was talking about Davis Boatworks.* The original poster mentioned that Davis's were cold molded.* B&D is the same guy, different boat company.* Davis's are still all glass.* And yes, some of the first few were cold molded.* They are all awesome!*
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Old 12-21-2004, 12:05 AM
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Default RE: Disavantages of Cold Molded boats

Post more pics- very interesting.
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Old 12-21-2004, 03:38 PM
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Default RE: Disavantages of Cold Molded boats

Worthog, Great pics also.

My understanding is the traditional custom carolinas have a very sharp entry and relatively little deadrise in the stern. How would a 25'er handle 4 or 5' waves. Will these boats keep up with a deep V in nasty seas? Not having the weight of a bigger boat and a flater stern, would it tend to get airborn? Or does the sharp entry allow it to carve through lager waves...
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Old 12-21-2004, 03:40 PM
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Default RE: Disavantages of Cold Molded boats

More of my 02 cents...
There isn't technically a "one" way construction that applies to cold molding. It can be many ways but modern terms would lean toward ply and epoxy. I think you still find framework in most but not to the extent of a traditional planked boat.

I don't know where the term "cold molded" first came up but I'd bet the farm it came from building without steam. I heard the term a LONG time before WEST Systems was even a twinkle. Chris craft did it with diagonal planking...Huckins did it with PT boats. Those were double & triple planked "cold molded" boats with glue or saturated fabric between the layers. And like already posted, Davis made cold molded wood boats.

I've owned a few wood boats up to 42'...and wouldn't advise anyone who doesn't have deep pockets to own one now. Maintenance is higher and you can't "do it next year" like on glass boats. Even the marinas are beginning to turn away from hauling wood boats here in Florida. Newer cold molded wood boats are still being looked at the same as old planked boats. Insurance is harder to get than glass. If you buy wood, the key here is to make sure the title says composite.

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Old 12-21-2004, 05:05 PM
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Default RE: Disavantages of Cold Molded boats

Rover,
I think you will find that most custom Carolina builders put more deadrise in the stern in the smaller boats. The builders that are building int the 28-32 ft range with outboards are usually putting 15 to 18 degrees in these boats vs 10-14 in the larger boats. You are correct, you can get away with the flat stern in a 40 footer, but a small boat does not have the weight to crush the waves.
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