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Old 02-23-2013, 06:08 AM
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Can anybody tell me any other problems with wood other than the rot that may occur when the boat turns 30 years old? It seems like there is only one concern there. The strength and impact resistance is unparalleled as a core substance. And with the new treated marine plys, the rot issue has been greatly reduced.

So should we talk about the weaknesses of using foam core? There are reasons why experienced builders choose to continue using wood. I can only speak from personal experience with the inherent weakness of Coosa Board. We have seen 2 Edgewaters with shattered transoms after the engines impacted rocks. The rocks were hit at the lower units (a common occurance) and the transoms looked like a frozen charleston chew that you slam on the counter. The other experience was a 2004 Scout 26 foot cuddy (not sure what foam they use) that had an engine impact and the boat was totaled by insurance because the damage to the transom could not be repaired. Where wood can simply be removed and new material glassed in, such is not the case with foam. The foam is only strong as a glassed "unibody" so you can't simply cut out a piece and glass a new one in. That Scout owner has had boats his whole life, from classic Makos to Tiaras, and was blown away that his Scout was totaled from an engine impact. He purposely went out and bought a new Grady White because of his trust of wood.

So go with your gut and choose what makes you happy but there is no perfect way to go. Simple, right?

Everything can be repaired, depending on how deep you want to delve into the pocket. Foam repair is no different from repairing balsa core. A good structural guy knows how far he has to scarf and build in. I look at it as every core has its own specific purpose. and what properties are you looking for it to perform against. There is no one perfect building material. Even steel and alloys have their problems.
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Old 02-23-2013, 06:14 AM
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Can anybody tell me any other problems with wood other than the rot that may occur when the boat turns 30 years old? It seems like there is only one concern there. The strength and impact resistance is unparalleled as a core substance. And with the new treated marine plys, the rot issue has been greatly reduced.

So should we talk about the weaknesses of using foam core? There are reasons why experienced builders choose to continue using wood. I can only speak from personal experience with the inherent weakness of Coosa Board. We have seen 2 Edgewaters with shattered transoms after the engines impacted rocks. The rocks were hit at the lower units (a common occurance) and the transoms looked like a frozen charleston chew that you slam on the counter. The other experience was a 2004 Scout 26 foot cuddy (not sure what foam they use) that had an engine impact and the boat was totaled by insurance because the damage to the transom could not be repaired. Where wood can simply be removed and new material glassed in, such is not the case with foam. The foam is only strong as a glassed "unibody" so you can't simply cut out a piece and glass a new one in. That Scout owner has had boats his whole life, from classic Makos to Tiaras, and was blown away that his Scout was totaled from an engine impact. He purposely went out and bought a new Grady White because of his trust of wood.

So go with your gut and choose what makes you happy but there is no perfect way to go. Simple, right?
You're one of the 1st to point out anything negative about composites besides myself. And I have seen, in another industry, precisely what you've witnessed. They're subject to stress cracking among other issues where one could more easily replace wood but will need specialized equipment and skills to replace/repair certain composites.

There simply is no perfect material but given the wood rot argument, composites, without a doubt, will take over boat building in time.
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Old 02-23-2013, 06:46 AM
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sad sad sad day A Parker without the strength of wood.

Guess I knew this day was coming. But still sad !!!
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Old 02-23-2013, 07:16 AM
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Today I was sanding some of this bottom paint off in preparation for the trim tabs to show up.

I remover the scupper Flapper to get it out of the way. If your boat has some years on it and you haven't inspected this I suggest you do.

The outside lip of the brass tube had separated from the tube. This will induce water into your nice wood transom.



So one of my pet peeves are pockets that hold dirt and water. It holds sand a dirt that you just can't wash easily out of the boat.



So I take a screwdriver and hammer and remove the brass sleeve on the STB side. Yep it was a little damp. I've replaced a bunch of those sleeves. I do it with PVC and epoxy.

Stb side



Port side



But now I'm going to fix both problems. I turned a wooden dowel on my lathe 1 1/4in OD and drove into the scupper holes. I used a 1 1/4in Fostner bit set inside the hole a little for a guide and marked the center on the dowel well. I then used the mini drill press to bore a pilothole thru the middle of the dowel. This set it up to guide the holesaw pilot bit and cut a 1 3/4in hole thru the transom. This is just slightly larger than 1 1/4in PVC pipe. I used sch 20 as it will flow more water than sch40.

Tools used.



The transom is wetted out with resin and then Cabisol is mixed with the resin. The outside of the PVC is sanded with 80gt. The PVC is cut a little shorter than the hole and the epoxy/cabsol mix is filleted in the outside edges. This makes sure it's sealed.





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Old 02-23-2013, 10:03 AM
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Pretty easy solution, those who believe wood in boats is NFG should only buy wood free boats. If that is the voice of the majority, then wood in boats will dwindle away in the future.
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Old 02-23-2013, 10:52 AM
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Warthog5 - my boat is 26 years old and I've been looking at my scuppers thinking they have to be leaking. Fixing these up is high on my list.
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Old 02-23-2013, 12:45 PM
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I enlarged the size of them at the same time. The 1 1/4in PVC is what went in there. I turned a dowel down on my lathe. That is the nub you see in the pix. This was wedged in and already had the centering hole from the lathe. Just drill away with the holesaw.
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Old 02-23-2013, 06:17 PM
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Originally Posted by warthog5 View Post
Today I was sanding some of this bottom paint off in preparation for the trim tabs to show up.

I remover the scupper Flapper to get it out of the way. If your boat has some years on it and you haven't inspected this I suggest you do.

The outside lip of the brass tube had separated from the tube. This will induce water into your nice wood transom.



So one of my pet peeves are pockets that hold dirt and water. It holds sand a dirt that you just can't wash easily out of the boat.



So I take a screwdriver and hammer and remove the brass sleeve on the STB side. Yep it was a little damp. I've replaced a bunch of those sleeves. I do it with PVC and epoxy.

Stb side



Port side



But now I'm going to fix both problems. I turned a wooden dowel on my lathe 1 1/4in OD and drove into the scupper holes. I used a 1 1/4in Fostner bit set inside the hole a little for a guide and marked the center on the dowel well. I then used the mini drill press to bore a pilothole thru the middle of the dowel. This set it up to guide the holesaw pilot bit and cut a 1 3/4in hole thru the transom. This is just slightly larger than 1 1/4in PVC pipe. I used sch 20 as it will flow more water than sch40.

Tools used.



The transom is wetted out with resin and then Cabisol is mixed with the resin. The outside of the PVC is sanded with 80gt. The PVC is cut a little shorter than the hole and the epoxy/cabsol mix is filleted in the outside edges. This makes sure it's sealed.





i am glad you posted this because i am helping a buddy do this as soon as the rain stops here. How hard was it to remove the old brass sleeves? he has 2 that are broken and 2 that are not. hopefully the ones which are not broken will come out somewhat easy.
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Old 02-23-2013, 07:51 PM
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Oh , wow!!! I am glad that I read this thread. The Marine Group has a 2010 78 ft Rybovich listed for $6.9 million and it is ALL wood construction. I had beetter call them and tell them how much wood sucks and see if they will take $39k for that boat before it falls apart on them.
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Old 02-23-2013, 08:45 PM
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i am glad you posted this because i am helping a buddy do this as soon as the rain stops here. How hard was it to remove the old brass sleeves? he has 2 that are broken and 2 that are not. hopefully the ones which are not broken will come out somewhat easy.
Use a hacksaw blade to cut the length from inside the tube. Then, peel it out with a pair of pliers.

You can clean out the hole after the brass is removed with a drum sander. Once you have nice clean wood, coat it with epoxy. If you tube ever leaks, it will have an epoxy barrier tp protect the core.
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Old 02-26-2013, 03:57 AM
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Oh , wow!!! I am glad that I read this thread. The Marine Group has a 2010 78 ft Rybovich listed for $6.9 million and it is ALL wood construction. I had beetter call them and tell them how much wood sucks and see if they will take $39k for that boat before it falls apart on them.
I'm not sure you're allowed to say rybovich on this forum without going to banned camp!
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Old 02-26-2013, 04:35 AM
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Oh , wow!!! I am glad that I read this thread. The Marine Group has a 2010 78 ft Rybovich listed for $6.9 million and it is ALL wood construction. I had beetter call them and tell them how much wood sucks and see if they will take $39k for that boat before it falls apart on them.

A classic wood boat like that has soul. They ride the seas different, sound different, but also need constant maintenance. The above Rybo would need a budget of over a $1000 dollars a month in maintenance to keep up. The majority of us THT knuckle heads are weekend warriors and require low maintenance wood-free boats.
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Old 03-31-2013, 03:17 PM
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all good info on the wood vs. no wood never ending discussion. i trust linwood parker and the folks at grady white, contender and other brands that still think wood is the best and strongest core, transom, floor or stringer material. grady white wins the jd power award year after year. they are doing something right. every hole in any hull should be properly cared for with 5200 or other sealant.
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Old 03-31-2013, 05:03 PM
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FAQS - Construction
Where does Parker derive its superior strength?

The inherent strength of Parker boats comes from the heavy laminate schedule coupled with the transverse-braced, box grid stringer system composed of top-quality, marine-grade fir plywood


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Old 03-31-2013, 05:08 PM
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FAQS - Construction
Where does Parker derive its superior strength?

The inherent strength of Parker boats comes from the heavy laminate schedule coupled with the transverse-braced, box grid stringer system composed of top-quality, marine-grade fir plywood


That is all very well and good, but what is the first thing everybody warns posters looking at boats with wood in them that are fifteen years or more old? Check the wood. Lack of wood makes for one less thing to worry about, IMO.
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Old 03-31-2013, 05:13 PM
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That is all very well and good, but what is the first thing everybody warns posters looking at boats with wood in them that are fifteen years or more old? Check the wood. Lack of wood makes for one less thing to worry about, IMO.
When's the last time yer saw a thread
about sending a Parker back to the factory
'cause it came apart ?

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FAQS - Features/Benefits
Why does Parker choose a wood stringer system over a fiberglass stringer system?

With constant use over time, the low shear strength of foam core fiberglass stringers becomes evident. The foam begins to split and break down, allowing the glass skin to flex independently. The eventual result is hull failure. A wood stringer system maintains its strength without flexing. In order to achieve adequate strength in a fiberglass stringer system without injecting a core, it would be too heavy and expensive to produce. Mass (thickness) is the only way to provide strength in fiberglass stringers and unless a core (foam) is injected into the glass stringer system, there simply is not adequate strength. All the best manufacturers of small fiberglass boats agree that properly constructed boats begin with marine grade plywood stringers which are encapsulated and hand rolled in fiberglass and resin. Parker's solid fir plywood stringer system continues to give customers the strongest, toughest and safest fiberglass boats built. When boats are built properly, there is no need for gimmicks.
(bold type by me)
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Old 03-31-2013, 05:47 PM
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I guess the other part of the story is, what happens to foam core boats as they age? The only way to compare and evaluate the pros and cons is to see what happens to similar boats built differently over time. I have asked a few 'glass shop owners what they think, and both felt wood is stronger, rides better, is easier to repair. They also said composite is ok as long as the techniques needed for good construction are carefully followed. If short cuts are taken, there will be problems with delamination and cracking.
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Old 03-31-2013, 05:47 PM
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my dad was a 100 tonner and a master boat builder of uscg approved and certified boats. all built from wood. specifically dbl layer plywood over oak stringers and ribs was choice of materials for build. after many years past I find myself getting ready to buy a retirement boat to fish with and relax on. parker always ends up on my short list. when I read foam core I just can't see it as sturdy construction but I feel in boat construction the material is important as is the skilled craftsman that do the building and how well a skipper/owner takes care of his boat. buy what you feel is the best and buy what it is the best you can afford and take care of your boat and it will take care of you. tight lines.
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Old 03-31-2013, 06:00 PM
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Originally Posted by fish factory View Post
When's the last time yer saw a thread
about sending a Parker back to the factory
'cause it came apart ?

nomesayin'

FAQS - Features/Benefits
Why does Parker choose a wood stringer system over a fiberglass stringer system?

With constant use over time, the low shear strength of foam core fiberglass stringers becomes evident. The foam begins to split and break down, allowing the glass skin to flex independently. The eventual result is hull failure. A wood stringer system maintains its strength without flexing. In order to achieve adequate strength in a fiberglass stringer system without injecting a core, it would be too heavy and expensive to produce. Mass (thickness) is the only way to provide strength in fiberglass stringers and unless a core (foam) is injected into the glass stringer system, there simply is not adequate strength. All the best manufacturers of small fiberglass boats agree that properly constructed boats begin with marine grade plywood stringers which are encapsulated and hand rolled in fiberglass and resin. Parker's solid fir plywood stringer system continues to give customers the strongest, toughest and safest fiberglass boats built. When boats are built properly, there is no need for gimmicks.
(bold type by me)
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Old 04-01-2013, 09:37 AM
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I get that wood is great as long as it is not rotted out. I also get that we really don't know how the non-wood decks and stringers will hold up.

But I also notice that when somebody posts a thread about re-doing a classic hull, it almost always start with tearing out a bunch of wood. If the person is lucky, it is just decks. But more often it is the transom too. And very frequently, we see pics of the bare hull with support beams clamped across it to hold the shape together until new stringers can be glassed in.

I am not saying I would not buy wood. I would probably have bought a Maycraft 19 a couple months ago if the freeboard was a few inches higher. But still, wood is an issue. We see a lot of posts about the resale value of Etechs as opposed to four strokes. The resale value of most boats with a lot of wood in the construction is also an issue.

And while I don't remeber any Parker threads, I have seen discussions of Grady's that are fifteen years old or so, where a lot of wood needed to be replaced.
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