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Old 03-18-2011, 05:28 AM
  #41    
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So all we need now is a site that breaks down dealer expenses... IF these were accurate prices to the dealer, is there really an expectation that the dealer could sell to you at those prices and stay in business? Would you really want to buy from a dealer that was not making some money?

I hate overpaying like everyone else, but this attitude like businesses making a buck is a bad thing, is really bad in the long run for everyone.
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Old 03-18-2011, 05:39 AM
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I get an error message when I go there.

Something about a key has gone over requests...

Me too
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Old 03-18-2011, 06:14 AM
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I wonder if we have to register first? I keep getting the same error message.
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Old 03-18-2011, 06:29 AM
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I believe you need to register 1st. I kept getting the error, and so I tried a different email address (gmail versus yahoo) and it worked. I am not sure if I did something else different, but sometimes yahoo emails create problems, or are more associated with spam activity.

Personally, I think those costs are somewhat bogus as dealers get credits, etc... on inventory. Personally, I see this site as a BIG problem for the consumer versus the dealer! A dealer can claim he/she will loose money below invoice - take it or leave it! Personally, I think dealers cost is below Invoice. Trying to negotiate a price below invoice will be even more difficult. My guess, dealers cost is roughly 9 - 13% below invoice. Just sayin......

After all, look at who owns the site, and the prices are provided by the industry. And who obviously doesn't see a problem in providing the data.

I looked up a Yamaha F150 online (ebay) and the Buy It Price was very close to the Invoice price. The site needs to tell me something new, and it doesn't!

I would not pay Invoice! Therefore, I probably will not own another new boat, because most dealers will say, 'invoice is my cost', and that is that.
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Old 03-18-2011, 06:49 AM
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Personally, I think those costs are somewhat bogus as dealers get credits, etc... on inventory. Personally, I see this site as a BIG problem for the consumer versus the dealer! A dealer can claim he/she will loose money below invoice - take it or leave it! Personally, I think dealers cost is below Invoice. Trying to negotiate a price below invoice will be even more difficult. My guess, dealers cost is roughly 9 - 13% below invoice. Just sayin......

After all, look at who owns the site, and the prices are provided by the industry. And who obviously doesn't see a problem in providing the data.

I looked up a Yamaha F150 online (ebay) and the Buy It Price was very close to the Invoice price. The site needs to tell me something new, and it doesn't!
The boat business is not the same as at the car business. Dealers simply buy boats from the manufacturer and sell them to the consumer. I can't speak for every manufacturer/dealer agreement but with every boat we have ever offered there are no hold backs, volume incentives or rebates given to the dealer by the manufacturer. Our invoice is what we actually pay for the boat, period. And that invoice does not include things like freight, batteries, props, fuel, labor, transportation costs, financing interest ect.
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Old 03-18-2011, 07:41 AM
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The boat business is not the same as at the car business. Dealers simply buy boats from the manufacturer and sell them to the consumer. I can't speak for every manufacturer/dealer agreement but with every boat we have ever offered there are no hold backs, volume incentives or rebates given to the dealer by the manufacturer. Our invoice is what we actually pay for the boat, period. And that invoice does not include things like freight, batteries, props, fuel, labor, transportation costs, financing interest ect.
Are you saying that when a builder delivers a boat to a dealer, there are no props or batteries supplied as part of the vessel?
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Old 03-18-2011, 07:46 AM
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Are you saying that when a builder delivers a boat to a dealer, there are no props or batteries supplied as part of the vessel?
Depends on the brand and dealer. None of the boats we buy come with batteries and only some come with props.
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Old 03-18-2011, 08:08 AM
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And many the engine comes in a crate unloaded next to the boat.
And some do not have the top canvas (t-top) or tops installed
And some accessories (cushions, jump seats etc.) may come in a box for dealer install.
And it will have to be fit to the trailer
And it has not drop one of fuel.
And it came wrapped up and must be unwrapped and the associated goop removed.
And
And

Not complaining, that is the nature of the business. Just pointing out that this isn't the car business where the trucker unloads it from the hauler, you hit it with a hose, and it is ready to sell.
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Old 03-18-2011, 08:12 AM
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And many the engine comes in a crate unloaded next to the boat.
And some do not have the top canvas (t-top) or tops installed
And some accessories (cushions, jump seats etc.) may come in a box for dealer install.
And it will have to be fit to the trailer
And it has not drop one of fuel.
And it came wrapped up and must be unwrapped and the associated goop removed.
And
And

Not complaining, that is the nature of the business. Just pointing out that this isn't the car business where the trucker unloads it from the hauler, you hit it with a hose, and it is ready to sell.
That is for sure. There is a lot involved in getting a boat from the builder to the buyer.
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Old 03-18-2011, 08:29 AM
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Originally Posted by SmokinBarrel View Post
I believe you need to register 1st. I kept getting the error, and so I tried a different email address (gmail versus yahoo) and it worked. I am not sure if I did something else different, but sometimes yahoo emails create problems, or are more associated with spam activity.

Personally, I think those costs are somewhat bogus as dealers get credits, etc... on inventory. Personally, I see this site as a BIG problem for the consumer versus the dealer! A dealer can claim he/she will loose money below invoice - take it or leave it! Personally, I think dealers cost is below Invoice. Trying to negotiate a price below invoice will be even more difficult. My guess, dealers cost is roughly 9 - 13% below invoice. Just sayin......

After all, look at who owns the site, and the prices are provided by the industry. And who obviously doesn't see a problem in providing the data.

I looked up a Yamaha F150 online (ebay) and the Buy It Price was very close to the Invoice price. The site needs to tell me something new, and it doesn't!

I would not pay Invoice! Therefore, I probably will not own another new boat, because most dealers will say, 'invoice is my cost', and that is that.
I know of not a single manufacturer shown that has "provided" anything to these guys.
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Old 03-18-2011, 08:30 AM
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So you guys need to get paid for all that, and make a profit so you can stay in business? Must be some of those greedy dealers I keep hearing about.
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Old 03-18-2011, 08:31 AM
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Originally Posted by MarinaMikes View Post
That is for sure. There is a lot involved in getting a boat from the builder to the buyer.
X2
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Old 03-18-2011, 09:17 AM
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MarinaMikes is 100% correct. The invoice is the invoice from the manufactuer. If you are a dealer for a boat that doesn't sell a package hull and motor setup you have to pull cables, harness, steering, accessories and etc. Then hang the motor , put a prop on it and batteries. I know because I DO THIS FOR A LIVING. This website is going to do nothing but drive the dealers in the ground because so many of ya'll are blinded by how a car stealership works. 90% of boat mfgs have no hold back , volume, or back end rebate incentives. We can thank "Detroit" for making the consumer beleive that we actually make 1000's below invoice.

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Old 03-18-2011, 09:35 AM
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Might be interesting, but I choose not to register for it and get on yet another marketing list. There are so many ways to configure a boat/motor/trailer combination, let alone accessories, that I would suspect this is about as useful as NADA or BUC. Higher volume dealers also seem to get better pricing from a manufacturer than low volume dealers. Ultimately, you can pretty much figure out what MSRP is by comparing pricing online, then offer what you feel is reasonable (15-30% less, depending on manufacturer and dealer). If they take it great, if they tell you no, go elsewhere.
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Old 03-18-2011, 10:10 AM
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Default They just took 30% off the boat's MSRP

I took a look at the site to see what it was all about and looked at Bayliner, Boston Whaler, Grady White, and Edgewater. They just took 30% off each model and gave a "cost" Seems like kinda of a joke, I highly doubt to point of unbelievable that they all are sold at the same margin and that it would all be 30%. Probably just trying to drum up advertising dollars from the traffic they get and then it will fade in my opinion.
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Old 03-18-2011, 10:51 AM
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See, it has already began. You are claiming you pay invoice. I wouldn't pay invoice price, no way! I will buy used before I pay invoice. Regarding other accessories that you need to add, like batteries, etc... those additional costs can be negotiated separately with a reasonable profit.

My guess, is that being in the boating business is going to get tough. I think I read someplace where Mr Fountian is going in a new direction. Most likely because his profit will be better. Unless you can crank out mass production Yamaha boats or likewise. The public interpretation of boat dealerships is 'shady', and always unpredictable. How can a Marina not screw boaters and be in business? The big squeeze on affordability is just beginning.
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Old 03-18-2011, 11:28 AM
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Originally Posted by SmokinBarrel View Post
See, it has already began. You are claiming you pay invoice. I wouldn't pay invoice price, no way! I will buy used before I pay invoice. Regarding other accessories that you need to add, like batteries, etc... those additional costs can be negotiated separately with a reasonable profit.

My guess, is that being in the boating business is going to get tough. I think I read someplace where Mr Fountian is going in a new direction. Most likely because his profit will be better. Unless you can crank out mass production Yamaha boats or likewise. The public interpretation of boat dealerships is 'shady', and always unpredictable. How can a Marina not screw boaters and be in business? The big squeeze on affordability is just beginning.
Please allow me to understand a couple things you've said.

You wont pay invoice?
Did I understand you correctly?
That would, if I understand you, mean I have to lose money to sell you a boat?
I would do that?
If so, why would I do that?

Yes, things like batteries are almost never included on an invoice. They generally do not come from a manufacturer to a dealer.
So, on a $100.00 battery, for example, what would you consider a negotiated price? Are you going to permit me to earn, perhaps 10%, maybe ten dollars? That when I have to pay a tech, maybe thirty dollars to install it correctly?

You also feel that we, maybe marina's, must "screw boaters" to make a profit?

I'm curious as to what you do for a living?

Care to share?
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Old 03-18-2011, 11:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SmokinBarrel View Post
See, it has already began. You are claiming you pay invoice. I wouldn't pay invoice price, no way! I will buy used before I pay invoice. Regarding other accessories that you need to add, like batteries, etc... those additional costs can be negotiated separately with a reasonable profit.

My guess, is that being in the boating business is going to get tough. I think I read someplace where Mr Fountian is going in a new direction. Most likely because his profit will be better. Unless you can crank out mass production Yamaha boats or likewise. The public interpretation of boat dealerships is 'shady', and always unpredictable. How can a Marina not screw boaters and be in business? The big squeeze on affordability is just beginning.
Let's see; sell below invoice and negotiate all the little details.
Being in the boating business is "going" to get tough.
Reggie left the industry to make a better profit.
And you speak for the public in general saying that dealerships are shady and Marinas screw boaters to stay in business.

If this is the way you honestly see things it puts a whole new perspective on what might be smokin in that barrel.
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Old 03-18-2011, 01:09 PM
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Originally Posted by SmokinBarrel View Post
See, it has already began. You are claiming you pay invoice. I wouldn't pay invoice price, no way! I will buy used before I pay invoice. Regarding other accessories that you need to add, like batteries, etc... those additional costs can be negotiated separately with a reasonable profit.

My guess, is that being in the boating business is going to get tough. I think I read someplace where Mr Fountian is going in a new direction. Most likely because his profit will be better. Unless you can crank out mass production Yamaha boats or likewise. The public interpretation of boat dealerships is 'shady', and always unpredictable. How can a Marina not screw boaters and be in business? The big squeeze on affordability is just beginning.
Let me get this straight, you want to negotiate the cost of the batteries? You have got to be kidding. I guess we could not clean and detail it too. That way you could negotiate out another $100.

Better yet, how about we just dump everything (boat, motors, batteries, trailer, and any added electronics / accessories) in your driveway and you can put it all together yourself. Commission your own engines and register your own warranties. Call it all a twenty first century KIT BOAT. Think of the savings ! ! !

Considering your outlook on pricing, and the "shady and always unpredictable" dealers, you have made a good choice to swear off new boats, and shop in the used market. On behalf of the greater marine industry, we applaud your decision, and thank you.
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Old 03-18-2011, 01:49 PM
  #60    
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IF you want the best price on a boat negotiate as far down as the dealer will go without him letting you walk out the door. The dealer is not going to turn you away untill he cant go any lower. Isnt that simple?
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